19th Century 31-ton Revenue Cutter by CharlieZardoz - Scale 1/64 - building as USRC Active based off Doughty plans and BlueJacket Shipcrafters kit

[mtaylor]

Charlie,

 

On the coamings... will they be set into the deck planking or on top of it?  You might want to lay some dummy deck planking (don't even need to glue it down) to check the height of the coamings.

 

I'm not even going to try to sort out the carronades as I've not run into any yet in my builds to have given them thoughts.. 

[CharlieZardoz]

Great question Mark. As far as I know hatch coamings should lay over the deck once planked. Usually i've seen other builders paint a black square on the solid hull, add the planks around that space then the hatch over that. Similar to a real ship except the hatch depth is "implied".

Regarding the deck Im slowly putting together a laser template for the ship waterways (the outer lines) and the margin plank (the inner lines) which will all come together shortly but will post more on that once the parts are made.

Edited February 1, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[jbshan]

Charlie,

Considering the requirements for fastening and caulking, this is what I come up with for the structure of a hatchway.  Your 'coaming' would be 'hatchway' in the sketch.  If the coaming sits on top of the deck, caulking it would push the two apart. 
The way I have it, the pressure is against the fasteners instead of along them.

 

[CharlieZardoz]

That's a great reference image Joel. With that being so, my approach the hatches probably don't need to be shortened the deck material with account for the difference.

[uss frolick]

Charlie, it is so cool that you are building a solid hull ship, in these days of POB and POF builds !

[davyboy]

Charlie,the "strange ring" would normally be for the gun breeching rope.

 

Dave 

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi Dave, yes I now understand the nature of the breech ring and what it does (do forgive my learning curve), and frolick I guess it is at that, though I'm more surprised I'm building a scratch model so early on. Kits don't have nearly as many judgment calls like choosing cannon sizes or heights of hatches etc. That said it's in my nature to question little details like the assemblage image Joel posted above. The reason why I postponed Sultana was that I realized too many details were uncertain to me and I want to be proud of each model I build. So went for something very simple this time basically a block of wood with no decks and still I'm solving lots of little puzzles. My approach to Sultana now will be much different now that I have worked on this cutter. But yeah I'd love to do a POB or even POF some day (after these solid hulls are done) but the thought of tackling a Hahn style build at this time ooof I can't imagine! People who start Victory as their first model do my head in, how on earth can one finish such a model as their first build?

Edited February 1, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

Joel regarding that image you shared how do the lock joints figure in? I mean I want to make them out even but if the hatch is partially below the decking then won't the lock look a bit uneven?

[overdale]

Nice work Charlie,

it's coming along well.

 

Dan.

[jbshan]

Maybe a bit, Charlie.  I guess they would keep the deck thickness in mind when they were laying out to cut the corner joints.

[shipmodel]

Hi Charlie -

 

Coming along really nicely.  Love the crisp edges and corners you are creating. 

 

On the restored ships that I have been on, where I could tell anything about the coaming joints under various layers of paint or varnish, there was no consistent height for the coaming, nor for the placement of the lock joint.  Also, sometimes there was a quarter-round molding around the coaming to protect the butt ends of the deck planks from rot. 

 

As for the carronade, I suspect most every foundry had its own pattern for the casting, which probably also changed over time, even within any one country.  As for which of the commercial items to use, it depends on how you are going to mount it.  The brass ones are drilled for a trunnion and carriage mount, like most cannon.  The pewter one has a lug on the bottom for a slide carriage.  You will have to modify them if you want to use the non-matching style.  The pewter one, I think, is the most accurate overall.  The brass ones do not have a vertical breeching ring, but that horizontal 'doughnut' which I think is wrong.  It looks like a part of a metal elevating screw system, although the Caldercraft plans show a wooden quoin wedge for that purpose.    

 

Hope that helps.

 

Dan

 

PS - what an Amazing/Hearbreaking game!  Had no real rooting interest, but it certainly wasn't boring.

[jbshan]

You need one or the other, quoin or elevating screw.  Since the quoin is used on regular trucked carriages for guns, I suspect which one of those you choose would determine the type of carriage, trucked or sliding.  The earliest carronades, 1780 or so, had trunnions and used trucked carriages, the lugged mount, screw and sliding carriage came in later.  Also later was the extended muzzle shield, to try to keep from setting the rigging on fire with the muzzle blast, as these had much shorter barrels than normal guns.  You can roughly date the carronade by these features.  Lavery, 'Arming and Fitting' has a lot on these weapons.

Edited February 6, 2017 by jbshan

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi guys! Sorry was a very busy week. I'm in the middle of building up my own appraisal company so that consists of connecting with new clients, opening sole proprietorship accounts and smoozing.

 

So regarding the revenue cutter carronade, my reasoning for picking the screw over the "quoin" is simply due to availability of carronade kits with screws over the other and since this is a sliding carriage design from 1820 I think it should work. The only model of Doughty's revenue cutters which features a screw style carronade is the Corel Ranger so I'm looking at this photo of what Corel's plan shows for the carronade design (thank you Cathead), this is how I plan on building it.  Regarding the carronade itself I'm going to modify the kits and bash the parts to get something like what the image shows.

 

Now onto my next bunch of querries...

[CharlieZardoz]

So here is what I've been up to in the last week. Basically getting the templates for the waterways and margin planks ready for the laser. The margin planks will be made from holly veneer and the waterways will be Cherry (like 1 mm or something a bit thicker) and painted white with the stanchion bits added to made a tiny bulwark. Here you can see a paper printed example of what it will look like on the model. You can also see I did a pattern for the treenails where each plank ends/begins. I think it looks ok the planks represent about 15' in length and I tried to follow the 1,3,5,2,4 pattern but there weren't many needed on this small ship.

Edited February 11, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

And remember always with laser templates A. overlap when you have joints and also add a pixel of extra length so that way the laser can burn off that extra amount and you will get the size you need!

[CharlieZardoz]

So here is my thoughts on the bulwark. Chapelle's "reconstruction" essentially sees the ship's upper works the same as a yacht or other small vessel. I've been looking at images of various boats out there and you can see a similarity just a small lip for a railing and the rails themselves lined up on the waterway. AL's Dallas and the Bluejacket kit follow this line but there is another way I've seen.

[CharlieZardoz]

Then you have option II which is the ship having a design more akin to a Baltimore Clipper (ship image is the Pride of Baltimore II). This is featured in the Lively model by Lumbreyard, the Krick and Mamoli kits as well with the stanchion posts not on the waterway but bulwark railing itself. Generally speaking I like this look a lot better and is how I am making my model look however I wouldn't mind some thoughts and how such a ship could have been set up why some models may have chosen one approach over the other there is still time before I am fully committed.

[jbshan]

You could go with a short bulwark with railing, but the no bulwark and railing was not uncommon, I believe.  They wanted to keep the weight down, especially higher up.  It's a pretty small vessel, the effect of topside weight would be exaggerated.  Even a short bulwark would hold water as well, producing more weight when you least want it, in a storm.

Edited February 11, 2017 by jbshan

[CharlieZardoz]

Interesting thoughts Joel. I mean if you look at that Chapelle image above there is a small bulwark there the only real difference is the lack of a cap rail and stanchion ribs (which I imagine was there to hold it up). From a pure model building perspective the later sounds more fun though I want to plan ahead if I go the other way id need to remove those "teeth" for the stanchion railings in my laser template. Maybe ill make a version for both... I am curious if a resource exists where I can explore this further. Will check my shop notes

Edited February 11, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[jbshan]

You could have a 'log rail' which basically keeps you from sliding overboard, but probably isn't more than a 4X4.  You might see it called a 'toe rail' on a modern recreational vessel.

[CharlieZardoz]

I think that's the idea more of less yes. This bulwark was probably no more than a foot high it definitely served no defensive purpose and likely only a few inches thick. But similar to what pilot schooners had back in the day I dont like the way Als Dallas does it (too short in my opinion) but its fun working this stuff out

Edited February 11, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[Cathead]

One thing I didn't consider/notice until it was too late on my Corel Ranger, was that the kit doesn't allow for any drainage from the deck through the bulwarks (can't think of the right term). As built, it would swamp in no time. But it went over my head, and now I can't easily fix it. Oh well. Since you're not that far yet, sure seems worth considering how to add proper drainage.

 

On the carronades, one thing I'd suggest it thinking through how long you want the elevation screw to be. The one Corel provides (shown in the plans) doesn't seem long enough to allow the full range of elevation/depression that you'd want. They also designed the carriage poorly, so that the screw can't be vertical while fitting into its socket on the slide and through the carronade itself. Sloppy.

[CharlieZardoz]

Eric I think you did a really great job with that kit, made it the best it can be. The problems are with the kit itself it's lacking in detailing and yeah all that is fixable but if you look at the Corel, Mamoli and then Krick cutters they all increase in detailing but essentially are the same idea. So I'm trying to pick and choose from all these kits what detailing's I like and/or feel was appropriate. For example when I finally get to the 79 ton ship I wouldn't give it a mere carronade like AL did with Dallas but a full size cannon possibly with several 3-4 pounders. What I suspect with these ships is that the upper works would be modified as needed based on duty and wishes of the commanders. If you look at this custom model from shipmodel.com (Richard Glanville's model) you can imagine this was probably how they varied with larger bulwarks and gun ports.

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi everyone! So after a long hiatus I am back and delighted to show you all what Ive been up to. Here below are the laser parts I recently made for the revenie cutter. A few are doubled up so to have a spare in case of breakage (or sometimes the lasering has a flaw). Took me awhile to get all the parts just right. Also had a busy month doing performance art with some of ny nyc friends. Happy to be back and buildings once more!

[CharlieZardoz]

And a close up of the cannon mount.

[CharlieZardoz]

And here you can see the final image of the rudder design and how it all comes together with the keel. 

[mtaylor]

Nice work, Charlie.   I'm looking forward to seeing this all come together.

[DocBlake]

Nice laser work.  Those parts should really enhance the model.  Keep up the good work!

[Omega1234]

Hi Charlie

 

Lovely work! I'm really enjoying your updates and watching your cutter grow.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi everyone! So going to add a few updates over the course of this weekend regarding a few different topics but first I thought I'd show more close ups of the laser parts I made. Nothing is glued together yet just fitted on the hull to see what worked and what didn't. In these pics you can see the keel and cabin are still basswood so I could gauge how they fit together and will be replaced after planking. Overall I am very happy with the margin plank in holly and the waterway in cherry also the cannon carriage parts they really worked out amazing!  The stern (again just laying on the deck flat for now) looks pretty good too I am wondering if those cleats are too thick though?