HMS ROYAL KATHERINE 1664 by Doris - 1/55 - CARD

[druxey]

For seats of ease, also see photos of Vasa, e.g.:

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjuyby14ZjfAhVjxoMKHRHMD_MQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffr.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFichier%3AVasa-toilets-2.jpg&psig=AOvVaw2mXz9LpKHRlZAA73uycNHH&ust=1544651460909121

[rwiederrich]

2 seats of ease for a hundred... requiring release from the stresses of their day....seams a bit short sighted.  On the designers part....

 

Your model is looking superb...

 

Rob

[michael mott]

I have to agree with Rob on his observation.

 

Michael

[DORIS]

O.K. my friends, I will add others.😉 You are right. Thank you for your opinion and advice.

BTW, there are also seats of ease on main channels - just here:

 

 

Kind regards,

Doris

[DORIS]

Today I finished other two seats of ease and also added doors into the beakhead bulkhead. I found some inspiration on HMS Lenox drawings.

 

Best regards

[rwiederrich]

The doors are magnificent...I assume they are made from the vinyl  as well?

One question: I noticed the offset of the bowsprit exit hole and the bowsprit foot are not aligned...is there some reason for this?  Sometimes the bowsprit is laid port or starboard of the foremast because of proximity....but I would still think the exit and foot would be parallel to one another.

Just noticing.

 

Your work is so wonderful its hardly fathomable that it is made from card stock and some self adhesive vinyl laminate and modeling compound.

The folks who build exclusively with wood, would have a rough time keeping up with your standard......

 

Just wonderful work Doris.

 

Rob

[druxey]

Rob: I believe that the bowsprit would be angled so that, seen from above, its forward end would be at the centerline. I don't think it ran parallel to the centerline.

[rwiederrich]

I suspected that...but I thought I'd ask.  The angle appears to be significant in relations to the distance of the hole(Bowsprit exit) from the foot.

 

Rob

[DORIS]

Thank you for your comments, dear friends. 

 

 

Druxey is right, on some ships from that period you can see the bowsprit located outside the ship's axis but its forward end is at the centerline.

 

For example HMS Prince:

 

I admire wooden models and their builders a lot, wood is very beautiful material. I also tried to make some wooden models but finally stayed at card/paper ones  - it is much easier and enjoyable work for me, and I have found various ways how to improve techniques to achieve better results and get closer to the appearance and solidity of real wooden models. 

 

Best regards,

Doris

 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by DORIS

[dvm27]

Ship builders always have a reason for everything. But could the reason for the eccentric bowsprit simply be to allow access to a central beakhead bulkhead door? In Doris's model the doors are offset so a central bowsprit heel would be possible if the bulkhead were framed differently. Curious!

[KORTES]

 

Dear Doris 

Your work inspires admiration. The technology that you are using is really unique and gives an outstanding result.

Respectfully yours.

 

[DORIS]

Hello Greg, 

it was a difficult task for me, cause I do not have exact plans of the Royal Katherine, so I have to improvise from time to time. My solution is based on Vale painting, Van de Velde drawings and museum models from that period.

 

Royal Katherine on Vale painting:

Here was my main inspiration  - the model of Saint Michael, there is also the bowsprit out of centerline and in the beakhead bulkhead there are two doors:

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/65963.html

 

 

Of course, I am not always sure with the solution, so please do not regard my opinion as relevant. I am only an amateur, but I learn and want to improve my knowledge.😉

 

 

Best regards

Edited December 13, 2018 by DORIS

[DORIS]

7 minutes ago, KORTES said:

 

Dear Doris 

Your work inspires admiration. The technology that you are using is really unique and gives an outstanding result.

Respectfully yours.

 

Thank you, I am honoured you like my work. 

 

Kind regards

 

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Ship builders always have a reason for everything. But could the reason for the eccentric bowsprit simply be to allow access to a central beakhead bulkhead door? In Doris's model the doors are offset so a central bowsprit heel would be possible if the bulkhead were framed differently. Curious!

In most instances the offset for the bowsprit was established because of the internal proximity of the foremast and the bowsprit.  Because the forecastle was short and tall, the bowsprit and foremast found no room to be on axis with one another...so they did indeed offset the bowsprit by fashioning it beside the foremast.  I know this,....however, in one of the images Doris took of her additional seats of relief addition...the angle of the exit for the bowsprit and the bowsprit foot is too acute...resulting in the bowsprit being exaggerated to port by almost 20degrees....from what I can tell. 

 

My original question was centered around that angle....NOT that,  was that angle(Or offset) correct.

I can only assume the bowsprit will be fashioned NEXT to the seat and not ON the seat...

 

Question:

Doris...will you be rigging this model with masts, yards(sails) and rigging?

 

Rob(inquisitive minds want to know)

Edited December 13, 2018 by rwiederrich

[DORIS]

Hello Rob and thank you for interesting information and attention to detail for more realistic implementation. I would like to learn more although my English is not very good for understanding and I don´t know appropriate technical terms. If possible, please post some pics, it will be very helpful (not only) for me.

 

Question:

Doris...will you be rigging this model with masts, yards(sails) and rigging?

 

Of course, I will. Hope I will manage it well.🙂

 

Kind regards

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by DORIS

[druxey]

Yes, I agree with Rob. The bowsprit was offset until such time that the foremast was stepped further aft, giving enough inboard space to securely step the bowsprit.

[popeye the sailor]

I just caught up with your project Doris........I'm in awe!   it's always a pleasure to look at your amazing work   

[rwiederrich]

18 hours ago, DORIS said:

Hello Rob and thank you for interesting information and attention to detail for more realistic implementation. I would like to learn more although my English is not very good for understanding and I don´t know appropriate technical terms. If possible, please post some pics, it will be very helpful (not only) for me.

 

Question:

Doris...will you be rigging this model with masts, yards(sails) and rigging?

 

Of course, I will. Hope I will manage it well.🙂

 

Kind regards

 

Doris I drew up quickly, an example of the 3 possibilities the bowsprit might find itself.  Key elements are noted on the drawing.

My question is, from your model, the exit hole for the bowsprit would place the bowsprit off axis if you were to seat it on the foot as noted by the example on the right.  if you were to keep your bowsprits termination on axis, you would follow the drawing example on the left.  the middle drawing is a representation of an average.

Key notes: The bowsprit is abutted to the foremast(for reasons previously noted). The real question is, will you be actually resting the bowsprit on the foot(where it usually is found) or will you be placing it along side it and allowing for it to be centered and then fixing it there?

 

That was my entire line of questioning.

 

Rob

[Hubac's Historian]

I am fascinated by the Science Museum Model of the Prince.  I can appreciate the practical considerations for off-setting the bowsprit to the side of the mast and stem, however, I had always thought the stem was an essential support for the bowsprit.  Or, is it the case that between the gammoning and the fore stay(?) weights and tensions are balanced?

Edited December 14, 2018 by Hubac's Historian

[EJ_L]

I would think that there would need to be some type of support other than the gammoning and the fore stay mostly due to the fact that if the fore stay broke the entire spritsail mast would collapse. I ran into this issue with La Couronne as well. I chose to simply keep it inline with the center line of the ship though, many models I looked at had it offset. What I have wondered since is could there have been a supporting ledge to the side of the stem to carry the offset mast? This seems like a logical option as it would give the mast a place to rest that would allow the stem to still support the weight of the mast but allow for the offset. The gammoning and fore stays would still do their job of holding the mast steady but in the event that the fore stays are broken, the mast would not collapse.   

[Hubac's Historian]

That sounds like a reasonable accomodation, EJ.  Perhaps builders left a section of bow deadwood over-long, to one side of the stem so that bowsprit could be fayed into it?  What say the experts?

[DORIS]

16 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Doris I drew up quickly, an example of the 3 possibilities the bowsprit might find itself.  Key elements are noted on the drawing.

My question is, from your model, the exit hole for the bowsprit would place the bowsprit off axis if you were to seat it on the foot as noted by the example on the right.  if you were to keep your bowsprits termination on axis, you would follow the drawing example on the left.  the middle drawing is a representation of an average.

Key notes: The bowsprit is abutted to the foremast(for reasons previously noted). The real question is, will you be actually resting the bowsprit on the foot(where it usually is found) or will you be placing it along side it and allowing for it to be centered and then fixing it there?

 

That was my entire line of questioning.

 

Rob

Hello Rob, 
thank you for the pictures and description, the term "foot" is not known to me, so I was confused what do you really ask. I know only the term  "stem" from literature a hull description in English. 😉Well  as I have already written above, I will follow the model of HMS Prince or Saint Michael -  their bowsprit is located beside the stem and its end is in the centerline. It is not possible to place bowsprit on the stem in this case, on some pictures of various ships from that period you can see sculptures on the top of stem.  Here are some pics of HMS Prince 1670:

 

 

Other ships with this similar design and position of bowsprit:

Sovereign of the seas:

Sheldon´s model:

 

Naseby:

 

 

Best regards

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by DORIS

[DORIS]

And here you have some pics,  how it looks on my model:

 

The angle of bowsprit is possible to modificate yet.

[rwiederrich]

Thank you Doris for the fine examples of the direction you are going.

I suspect my own lack of the exact time frame for the shift from offset bowsprits to the more traditional forward and on axis designs drove me to this line of questioning.

 

I'm looking at the counter action created by the gammon lashing, which do their work by pulling the bowsprite in toward the midline and down toward the stem.

Your picture examples show that lateral forces are applied to the starboard side of the Stem not on top of the stem(which I referred to as the *Foot*)....which in later designs became more prevalent.

 

If the bowsprit does not find support from contact with the *Foot* or Stem...then all the Gammon lashing energy is being countered by the fore stays.

 

Regardless....my questions have been answered, and your attention is most appreciated.

 

Love your work.

 

Rob

 

 

[DORIS]

Hello Rob,

No problem, I would like to explain anything, only my English is not very good and sometimes is a bit difficult to understand. Plenty of various modifications and structural elements I try to do accroding to museum models and paintings/drawings from that period. I am also very grateful for help and professional advice to the top expert and experienced naval captain from our country - Kpt.KL. I have already written about him in some of my previous posts. For example you can read through his professional research about Sovereign of the Seas (1637).

 

https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?f=183&t=46754

 

Several years ago I built a model of this ship (also a scratch build out of card) according to his advice and research, and achieve one of the most realistic results. Here are some pics of my model:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by DORIS

[DORIS]

Hello dear friends, 

I have just started with interior of a great cabin, at this moment it looks rather untidy but during next weeks it will be fully equipped and nice. Here are some actual pics, how the "change" begins.... The last gunports on main deck (before quarter galleries) will be closed and the space between them will serve for electrical wiring.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by DORIS

[RdK]

Hi there!

 

It is almost unbelievable that your Sovereign is in a scale 1:96! The details on her are just stunning! 👏👏👏

 

As regards the wiring for the light in your Katherine: Who is making your schematics? Are you doing it yourself or do you have some help?

 

For my scratch build of "Neptune" from Roman Polanski's movie Pirates I plan to implement light as well. But all my components, i.e. resistors, potentiometers, capacitors, will be outside the ship, so in the ship itself there will be only the diodes in a parallel circuit connection. This will save a lot of space. A student at my workplace was friendly enough to help me with the schematics. I hope to post my progress soon on papermodelers "Spanish Galleon Neptune" 😊 and at some point I will start a progress report on her here, too.

 

Kind regards,

Radek

Edited December 15, 2018 by RdK

[DORIS]

Hello Radek,
thank you very much for your praise, I am honoured. Sovereign of the Seas is my favourite ship and her model is the most precious for me. This was my first scratch build of sailing ship.

 

These schematics for Royal Katherine lighting I did by myself. It was quite easy. There will be five separate circuits - each with 3 or two pieces of LED.  Now it is connected only provisionally.

 

I am looking forward to your model and wish you a lot of success and enjoyment during the build.

 

Best regards,

Doris

[rwiederrich]

Wonderfully done.

 

Rob

[GrandpaPhil]

Amazing work on both the Sovereign Of The Seas and the Royal Katherine!