HMVS Cerberus 1870 by Dan Vadas - FINISHED - Paper Shipwright - 1:250 - CARD

[Dan Vadas]

I was a little puzzled about how these R2D2 shaped pieces had to look (the instructions were completely silent about them ) until I cut them out and started rolling them. Of course - the deck fresh air supply pipes (can't remember their actual name). Thanks again to Slog's build log I got the tip on how to roll a cone using my diamond coated round needle file. You'd think that this file was actually invented for the job - the rough surface stopped the paper from slipping and the tapered shape was also a help. I rolled the lower section around a 1mm drill bit  :

 

 

Next up were the Supports for the Flying Deck. This piece of card gets folded in half and glued together to double the thickness and add a printed centre piece. I use 3M 90 High Strength Spray Contact Adhesive as it won't distort the paper when used over a large area. When dry (about 15 seconds ) the support posts are cut out. A little cleaning up will be needed :

 

 

  Danny

[Blue Ensign]

An interesting project Danny of a not very well represented era in ship modelling terms.

Look forward to seeing her develop.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Captain Slog]

11 hours ago, Dan Vad said:

Here's a question, probably for Slog - I've used a Faber Castell PITT marker to edge colour the sides of the hull/deck joint. It all worked fine until I got just over one side done and the tip dried up. Any tips on getting the ink running again?

 

 

Hi Dan, just got home and what a surprise.  Lots of great looking progress.

 

I am glad my log is of help to you.

 

With regards to the PITT pens I assume you are using the 'B' for brush tip.  Similar in shape and size to the picture Popeye posted.  The problem I've had which may be similar to yours is that when doing a lot of edge colouring the tip loads up with paper dust so I do this to clean it and I suspect might help you restore your pens.

 

Get some kitchen roll as it is most absorbent and I like to think it helps wick the ink out of the tip.  Hold the pen in a shallow angle like 5 or 10 degrees so that the full length of the tip is in contact with the kitchen roll and gently press the whole side of the tip down against the Kitchen roll whilst slowly turning the pen so the full length of the brush tip is rolled 2 or 3 times.  For me this removes the dust and gets the ink flowing again.  You lose some ink into the kitchen roll but gets it going again.  Might work for your problem.

 

As an aside to the PITT pens I read somewhere in the shop display? or maybe off the side of the pen? that they are supposed to be stored flat/horizontally so don't store them standing up in a coffee mug etc.  Again might help stop your issue with them.  Let us know if the tips above work for you.

 

Cheers

Slog  

[Dan Vadas]

13 hours ago, Captain Slog said:

Get some kitchen roll as it is most absorbent and I like to think it helps wick the ink out of the tip.  Hold the pen in a shallow angle like 5 or 10 degrees so that the full length of the tip is in contact with the kitchen roll and gently press the whole side of the tip down against the Kitchen roll whilst slowly turning the pen so the full length of the brush tip is rolled 2 or 3 times.  For me this

removes the dust and gets the ink flowing again.  You lose some ink into the kitchen roll but gets it going again.  Might work for your problem.

Cheers Slog, that worked . Thanks B.E., welcome to the show.

 

There are 12 Davit Brackets to fit under the Flying Deck before it gets glued on. They have a 0.4mm slot in their ends into which the Davits will fit - to trim out the inside portion of the slot I used a scalpel blade with a broken tip (I have quite a collection of them by now ) the end of which I sharpened with a wetstone into a tiny chisel point. Worked fine :

 

 

Next I glued the Flying Deck on :

 

 

Then I glued in the Deck Supports :

 

 

  Danny

 

 

[Eddie]

Hey howya goin Danny, it's coming along nicely there mate.   

[Jim Lad]

She's coming along beautifully, Danny!

 

John

[Dan Vadas]

Go easy on the congratulations for this Milestone guys. That was how she looked last night - this is how she looks NOW  :

 

 

When I went to glue on the last two Supports I found they were a massive 2mm out of position - their tops would have been out in fresh air . In real life that translates to about 500mm.  To make it worse they were also 1mm out athwartships. Only one thing to do to fix the problem :

 

The only way to remove the deck was by using Isopropyl Alcohol. I'd earlier established that it had no effect on the printed surfaces, so I was confident I'd be able to get it off again. I unglued the tops of the supports first, placed two scraps of balsa on the turrets to put some tension on the outer ends, and slowly brushed the alcohol on from each end until it was all free. So far, so good.

 

I'd never been 100% happy with my first attempts at making the Superstructure, so I thought "what the heck" I'll re-do all of it as well. Luckily I'd had two sets of sheets printed out initially . So I pulled it all off again :

 

 

Now to start again .

 

  Danny

[ccoyle]

This is why free models are a GREAT way to get into card modeling!

[AndrewNaylor]

Danny 

You Sir are a man of many talents, From wood to paper, ships to coaches and hundreds if not thousands of encouraging and helpful posts to many of us on the site.

I for one would like to thank you for al your hard work and Entertainment by way of your skill

Thanks 

Andy

 

[Dan Vadas]

31 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

This is why free models are a GREAT way to get into card modeling!

Sure is Chris . And if I'd read a few Card Logs like yours and Slug's before starting this model I probably wouldn't be re-doing a major Oopsie now either .

 

When I get my next Card model (hopefully in a couple of weeks ) I'm thinking I might scan the sheets before I put knife to paper. That way I could get a second go at any of the blunders I'm pretty sure to make with it. Purely for my own use of course . I'm not into piracy.

 

And thanks for the kind words Andy . Don't forget the hundreds of plastic cars, planes, ships etc I built before getting into wood .

 

  Danny

[Eddie]

50 minutes ago, Dan Vad said:

Don't forget the hundreds of plastic cars, planes, ships etc

Danny you ever built a Gundam model, plastic or resin, do you still do plastic models or you just into wood and card models nowadays?

[Dan Vadas]

20 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Danny you ever built a Gundam model, plastic or resin, do you still do plastic models or you just into wood and card models nowadays?

Never heard of Gundam Eddie. My last Plastic was a Tamiya USS Missouri, about 13 years ago. Favourite Plastic kits would be Hasegawa. At the time they had the best detailing and parts fit.

 

  Danny

[Dan Vadas]

I've redone all the Superstructure. I'm MUCH, MUCH happier with the way it turned out. Well worth the effort .

 

After looking through Chris's and Slog's Logs I've picked up a lot of tips, most of which were used in the redo :

     1. I used an awl instead of a light score with an Xacto blade to score the fold lines. The scores don't have an open cut on them now.

     2. I laminated extra card to build up larger gluing surfaces when edge gluing (pic 1).

     3. I glued down extra card on the back side of vertical pieces so I could remove the gluing tabs (on the left in pic 1). Previously I had some trouble getting the walls to sit down at the correct height and in the right line.

     4. I cut inside the lines to remove the black edges that I had before (most of the time anyway).

     5. I used Slog's method to cut circles and curves. Much neater now.

     6. My tube rolling is vastly improved thanks to tips from both logs (pic 2).

     7. I now dry-fit EVERY part before applying any glue, and no longer assume it's going to fit properly.

     8. For some tricky pieces that like to spring a bit (like the walls) I'll glue one end first, let it dry, and then work my way around the piece. Previously I'd try to fit the whole thing in one go, with some poor results.

 

 

 

 

I'll glue the deck on in the morning. I may have to remake some of the Deck Support posts that got knocked around a bit, I'll see how they come up first.

 

  Danny

[Dan Vadas]

Learning from mistakes, part 2 (or is it 14 ). The major error earlier was the alignment of the Flying Deck. I came up with this solution to ensure it didn't happen again. One problem I found was that the black printing didn't like Tamiya Masking Tape - it came right off when I did a test on my spare main deck. So I made up two pieces of scrap paper which I folded to match the main deck just behind the fore and aft bulwarks to keep the tape away from the printed surface. Then I taped the ship to my cutting board to ensure it couldn't move. I taped a piece of balsa in the exact position of the rear of the flying deck as a "stopper", with another piece of tape on it to mark the side of the deck :

 

 

Next I added some balsa scraps to the inside of the structures to which the deck is glued to give a much larger gluing area. I made sure that all the pieces were flush with the tops of the little structures with a steel rule. Some of them were a little high, some a touch low, so these were adjusted by either a bit more sanding or by filling the gap with another piece of paper :

 

 

When I was satisfied that all was correct I glued the deck down and placed a small block of MDF on top to hold it down while the glue dried :

 

 

  Danny

[Dan Vadas]

I also remade the Support Posts and Davit Brackets. The tiny "fingers" on the brackets were a bit of a pain to cut, as they are only 0.4mm wide in 0.4mm thick card. I dipped the ends in CA glue to harden them before cutting, all worked well :

 

 

  Danny

[Jim Lad]

A great example to us all, Danny  - remaking anything that doesn't really satisfy you.

 

John

[maaaslo]

Couple of points:

did you check the dimensions of printout of the model against the file you printed from? Some printers do change dimensions just by a fraction, enough to ruin your work...(learned that a long time ago)

you heard of tabs? Lot easier to glue larger portions to the deck than creating a thick base on the deck- risk of warping the deck as you are using moist glue (paper+moisture=disaster).

you mentioned yamato, bismarck... as a second pper model, i would aim slightly lower... perhaps these would be a good way of learning the skills needed to build yamato... http://digitalnavy.com/downloads.html

paper modelers do glue their parts on thicker card. This allows them to stiffen the parts, especially the structurally important parts like formers and decks. Use white glue, on the card(not on the part printout) and let it dry on flat surface under a lot of weight.

small parts and fittings can be soaked in superglue. this way you can avoid paper from sepparating itself into layers.

for cutting out small diameter circles, guys in our slovak forum came with ingenious trick- they use jewelers engraving tools to do so http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Swiss-Set-Of-23-Grain-Tools-Plus---Handle-prcode-999-2355

ideal to cut out those tiny rivet heads.

also get a compass cutter -

very handy when you need to cut a perfect circle.

[Dan Vadas]

28 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

did you check the dimensions of printout of the model against the file you printed from?

Hi Pav, thanks for these tips. There is indeed a small difference in the scaling on at least one of the sheets. I discovered this early on when I was gluing the ribs to the base, which were on different sheets. The longitudinal centre rib was a touch over 2mm too long, and all the athwartship rib positions were also out. Anything else on this sheet would also be a bit too big, but the rest of the parts on it are all fairly small so won't make much difference. Unfortunately there are no scaling rules on the sheets which could be used to check this. The problem is with the Kit sheets, not the Printer. I printed out all the pages on normal printer paper with one Printer, and the actual Parts Pages as well on another Printer. Both lots came out with the same error.

 

28 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

Lot easier to glue larger portions to the deck than creating a thick base on the deck- risk of warping the deck as you are using moist glue (paper+moisture=disaster).

That wasn't a problem with the balsa inserts I glued in because of where they are. I used the PVA very sparingly - it was dry almost immediately, before the paper had a chance to get wet.

 

28 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

Use white glue, on the card(not on the part printout) and let it dry on flat surface under a lot of weight.

Yep, that's the way I did it .

 

28 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

also get a compass cutter -

very handy when you need to cut a perfect circle.

I bought one years ago and agree it's a good tool for cutting perfect circles, but I seem to have lost it in my last house move . I ordered a new one on-line just two days ago .

 

28 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

you mentioned yamato, bismarck... as a second paper model, i would aim slightly lower

I may not live long enough to do another easier model (hopefully I will). A Bismarck might see me out - she'll take a few years.

 

28 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

for cutting out small diameter circles, guys in our slovak forum came with ingenious trick- they use jewelers engraving tools to do so

Is there a video of the technique? Or some more information perhaps.

 

  Danny

[maaaslo]

11 hours ago, Dan Vad said:

 

Is there a video of the technique? Or some more information perhaps.

 

  Danny

my apologies, i should really correct myself.

these engraving tools are not being used for cutting out small circular parts, they rather use them to make rivets. small rivets with rounded head. you could use that to enhance your casemates and other parts of the ship. for cutting out small circular parts the use technique of placing just a tip of scalpel (x-acto blade) and going around the diameter of the part. like stabbing the paper. in the end you end up semi-circular cut-out of rather ruff edge, but since the parts are mainly small, you cannot see the difference. i just realised that my vocabulary is still not good enough, i sound like a foreigner...

also, paper modellers do not use any kind of markers to touch up edges. rather try to use semi-dry paintbrush dipped in acrylic or other paint of your choice. just like dry brushing. marker tends to change the colour after some time. i had some level of success using just colour pencils. paper modeling is rather cheap, but to get to the result Doris or firdajan shows, it takes a loooong time... i have made a few hulls of hms Cleopatra from shipyard ( i think 4 in total) and three of them flew to the bin. the last one is done to such level i am happy with it. i had to put it aside as life got in a way, but am contemplating on the idea of resurrecting it. if you need more help or info, i am happy to help. firdajan might be willing too. on our papermodelers.sk forum, we have a thread where the basic tools and techniques are described. if there would be demand, i could try to translate.

[Dan Vadas]

6 hours ago, maaaslo said:

these engraving tools are not being used for cutting out small circular parts, they rather use them to make rivets. small rivets with rounded head. you could use that to enhance your casemates and other parts of the ship.

Now I understand. Yes a very useful tool, but I guess one would only need a couple of sizes of them.

 

6 hours ago, maaaslo said:

for cutting out small circular parts the use technique of placing just a tip of scalpel (x-acto blade) and going around the diameter of the part. like stabbing the pa

Hah, that's the technique I used to cut out the inside of the Flange in the bottom of this pic. This sub-assembly is the Boiler Intake :

 

 

6 hours ago, maaaslo said:

also, paper modellers do not use any kind of markers to touch up edges. rather try to use semi-dry paintbrush dipped in acrylic or other paint of your choice. just like dry brushing.

I've been experimenting with using Acrylics. The Funnel in the pics below needed some touching up after rolling. I'm not at all happy with the way the printed parts have come out. The ink they used is very fragile when rolled or bent.

 

 

6 hours ago, maaaslo said:

i just realised that my vocabulary is still not good enough, i sound like a foreigner...

It's all good Pav. We are ALL foreigners if you think about it - whether we believe we came from the Garden of Eden, Atlantis or Olduvai Gorge .

 

6 hours ago, maaaslo said:

if you need more help or info, i am happy to help. firdajan might be willing too. on our papermodelers.sk forum, we have a thread where the basic tools and techniques are described.

Thank you Pav, I'll take all the help I can get .

 

  Danny

[Dan Vadas]

An exercise in tube rolling. This tube is only 1mm in diameter. The Kit has the part on 160gsm card. I tried rolling that and the yellow ink came straight off, and it finished up at 1.8mm diameter. So I used the part from the 80gsm paper that I'd printed the Instructions etc on. Much better, although it has a small bulge in the middle. This can't be picked up with the naked eye . The drill bit is 0.5mm :

 

 

  Danny

[Dan Vadas]

More tiny rolling. These Ventilators are the smallest ones on the ship - 8mm high by 0.8mm diameter. I was particularly happy with the way the cone turned out, especially as I used the 160gsm paper :

 

 

  Danny

[Captain Slog]

Looking good Dan, small tubes are tricky to handle. Another tip is to undercut the join so when the 2 sides come together there isn't a small groove but a closed joint. 

 

Cheers

Slog

[maaaslo]

Is that ink or laser printing? You can stabilise the print using either hairspray or 

http://www.northwestguitars.co.uk/clear-satin-nitrocellulose-guitar-paint-lacquer-aerosol-400ml/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=Cj0KEQjw9YTJBRD0vKClruOsuOwBEiQAGkQjP4cYfBrgkOQWTuieve3tFV5h_drl3leh0JehAJo0YvQaAlBQ8P8HAQ

 

(just an example)

Also, and i kid you not, you could literally lick the part you want to roll and then roll it. By wetting the paper, you give it a lot better  roll. Also i dont know if you noticed, but if you wet the paper, you could also peel a layer of, thus making it thinner and easily rollable.

[maaaslo]

Cut the tab off and glue edge to edge...

3 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Looking good Dan, small tubes are tricky to handle. Another tip is to undercut the join so when the 2 sides come together there isn't a small groove but a closed joint. 

 

Cheers

Slog

 

[Dan Vadas]

11 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Another tip is to undercut the join so when the 2 sides come together there isn't a small groove but a closed joint.

Thanks Slog. I've done that on the last few tubes I've rolled, even though it may not look like it .

 

9 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

Cut the tab off and glue edge to edge...

Yep, Pav. I did that too .

 

11 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

Also, and i kid you not, you could literally lick the part you want to roll and then roll it.

And that too . I roll them on my fingertip using drill bits of diminishing size.

 

13 minutes ago, maaaslo said:

Is that ink or laser printing?

I don't know, I didn't print them myself. I had them done at a photocopy shop. I'll be using Matt Lacquer on the parts sheets of my next model before I cut anything out, and this one will be getting a coat when it's finished.

 

I had a look at the Nitrocellulose Lacquer in your link, but I'm a bit worried about this bit :

 

Quote

This is the same type of lacquer as used on vintage Fender and Gibson guitars which, over time, will produce an aged, tarnished look to your instrument.

I'd prefer a coating that stays clear with age. Polyurethane would do that, but I don't know how it would affect other things in the build like glue adhesion.

 

 

  Danny

[maaaslo]

47 minutes ago, Dan Vad said:

I'd prefer a coating that stays clear with age. Polyurethane would do that, but I don't know how it would affect other things in the build like glue adhesion.

 

 

 

it was just an example. to stabilize the print, paper modellers especially in Poland, use nitrocellulose's lacquer. i only did quick research and frankly did not read what it does or the description. the one i found you is being used for fixing up guitars. maybe they sell similar product at your side of the pond. but clear and matte, without aging. i don't know what would it be marketed under in there...

[vossiewulf]

Any luthier supply site will have many nitrocellulose lacquer options, it's still a popular finish for musical instruments.

[Dan Vadas]

I found Nitro Matt Finish in Australia HERE. Vossiewulf, you were right - it's from a luthier supplies site.

 

A bit pricey, but at least Shipping is free . I've bought their last can .

 

  Danny

[vossiewulf]

9 hours ago, Dan Vad said:

I found Nitro Matt Finish in Australia HERE. Vossiewulf, you were right - it's from a luthier supplies site.

 

A bit pricey, but at least Shipping is free . I've bought their last can .

 

  Danny

Only thing is to make sure you follow the directions to get correct flow-out and leveling, and you should see if they have an extender to slow drying time if you're applying it in warm weather. It dries plenty fast even with an extender/leveling agent. You're going to want to use around three coats, sanding between with 1500 or so wet. More coats if you want a perfectly level finish.