Le Soleil Royal by popeye2sea - Heller - PLASTIC - 1:100

[popeye2sea]

I need some assistance.  Back when I started this build I basically just started following the kit instructions for assembling the hull and installed brass eyebolts where indicated on the upper wales.

 

Since then I had learned that these eyebolts were Hellers version of anchor points for the chains.  I have put off doing anything with them until now for several reasons, however it is now time to do something with them.

 

The plans want you to tie line between the deadeye strops and the anchor points to simulate the chains.  I do not wish to do this.  My plan is to make the chains out of blackened steel wire. But here is the problem.  I can not take those eyebolts out so my plan involves soldering the chains together while they are on the ship.

 

I am very afraid of putting a soldering torch that close to the hull.  Can anyone suggest a good material to use as a heat shield so that I do not scorch the paint work or melt the hull?

 

Regards,

[mtaylor]

Oh... I misinterpreted what you asked on your question about soldering...    You're doing this practically flush against the hull then?  Can you CA the wire and then touch it up with paint? 

 

What I suggested on that soldering topic won't work.  Plus you'll have some heat transfer to the brass eyebolts.

 

Edit: Rethink... there might be a way..  Make a jig such that the chain is held at a right angle to the hull.  Clamp a metal alligator clip as a heatsink just before the eyebolt.  Test on some scrap material as this is going to be risky no matter how you try it.

[hornet]

If it were me, I would not put heat anywhere near the side of that build. The heat transfer through the brass would almost certainly melt or distort the plastic. Why can't you snip the eyebolts off flush with the hull, carefully drill out the shafts and then build the eyebolt/chain/ strops off the model. The eyebolts could then be epoxied back in place - just my 2c worth

[Thunder]

I certainly  wouldn't risk a soldering iron near the hull, it can only lead to disaster. I wouldn't like to drill them out either. Could you cut them off leaving a pin protruding? Then have a hole in the end of your chain plate to go over the pin. Finish the top of the pin with a drop of cyno gel glue so that once dry it looks like the head of a fixing, paint black and job done. The chain plate should come down to the hull then be fixed with two such fixings running down the hull at same angle to the mast as the shroud, so if worried about fixing strength, the second fixing should cope, any tighter and you will warp the plastic mast anyway.

[foxy]

Hornets idea is the way to go.

 

Less damage.

 

Frank 

[lambsbk]

Would silicone offer a shield? It is flexible and good enough for oven mitts.

[popeye2sea]

I think that no matter which way I go is going to involve a little surgery.  So, here is my latest thought.  Cut open the channels at the slots for the deadeyes so that the strops can then be slid in from the edge of the channel.  Assemble and solder the chains and strops off the ship.  Open the loops slightly on the eybolts in the wales; just enough to get the lower end of the chains on.  Re-close the eyebolts.  Slide the strops into the channels. Fill the gaps in the channels with styrene and then putty, sand and repaint the channels.

 

Hopefully I won't make a mess of the eyebolts and the channels, but at least all of the soldering will be away from the hull.

 

Regards,

[mtaylor]

Sounds like a good plan, Henry.  I got my fingers crossed for you.

[foxy]

Me too.

 

Sounds a lot of work, but worth the effort.

 

Good luck!!!!! Henry.

 

Frank. 

[dafi]

As always: great work :-)

 

XXXDAn

[popeye2sea]

In order to figure out the proper lengths of the lines that will belay in the waist I need to temporarily set up some of the main rigging.  So I stepped the main mast, crossed the main yard, and rigged the clew, sheet, tack and brace on one side.

 

Let me just say that I love the challenges involved in rigging this ship as close as possible to the real vessel.  But, it is obvious that it is going to add a looong time to the build.  For example, all the blocks on the yard are stropped with long and short tails with eyes and rose lashed to the yard.  The clew line is fastened to the yard with a timber hitch, and the brace pendant is put over the yardarm with an eye splice.  The strops for the sheet and clew blocks were stropped with large eyes that have to be large enough to fit through each other and also admit the tack knot.  Each individual block on the ship will have a different size or type of strop based on the blocks location, size, and purpose.  All rigging will be fastened with proper seizings, lashings, bends, and hitches; no knots.  

 

As an example of the time I'm spending on these items.  It took me about eight hours to perfect the tack knots before I could say that I like the result.  Figuring out the lengths of the strops needed for the clew garnet and sheet blocks took a few trial and error attempts and about five hours to get right.  Add to that the time it took to make the clew garnet block out of two 5mm Syren blocks and you get about 15 or 16 hours just on that one sheet tack and clew assembly.

 

I really like the deadeyes that I purchased from Syren but I am taking them one step further.  I am shaping them so that they have more of a bulge in the middle and go thinner towards the edge.

 

Am I nuts?   Maybe, but I really like the results.

 

Here are some photos of the latest work.

 

Iron strops for deadeyes next.

 

Regards,

Edited January 19, 2016 by popeye2sea

[GLakie]

Beautiful rigging work Henry!  This is a perfect example of the time it actually takes to achieve the realism that many strive for, but don't/won't, or can't take the time for.  Very nice! 

[lambsbk]

Don't worry Henry: it took several years and multiple craftsman to complete the ship. I would say you are way ahead of them.

[md1400cs]

Henry,

 

Don't know why I was not getting email updates from your build as I am following you?

 

Anyway thanks for your notes on mine. I saw your mouse. Hmm yes looks so excellent. I will need to study this bit.

 

Went back over your postings I had missed - a real beauty.  

 

As I had noted way back when your skills with a paintbrush for such small details is so excellent.

 

Michael

[popeye2sea]

Back to the deadeyes and chains.

 

First up was creating a test piece to determine the look and fit of the channel deadeye strops and to use that to see how much material to cut out of the channels to slide the strops into.  The strops are made from 20 guage steel wire, which seems to fit the groove of Syrens 6mm deadeyes nicely.

Note:  The deadeye on the right is an upper deadeye.  I filled in the groove on the left hole.  This will be the hole on the inside face that the mathew walker knot on the end of the laniard bears against.

 

For anyone who chooses to go this route...caution!!  The 20 guage steel wire is relatively hard to bend around the deadeyes and fills the groove completely. Any sideways torque when bending the wire WILL split apart the deadeye.  Although this ability to split the deadeye face off came in handy later when I had a couple of solder joints break!

 

After the concept piece was done I pulled it apart to measure the length of wire for the strop and went into production mode.  The wire was cut, the ends cleaned up and the strop was formed into a wide loop (big enough to fit the deadeye) and silver soldered closed.  Then the pieces were blackened in a bath of Blacken-it.  The strops were then bent into final shape around the deadeyes.

 

Appropriate size slots were cut into the channels to fit the strops.

 

The stropped deadeyes were offered up to the channel and a line was run from the main masthead to determine the proper angles to bend the strops to.

More caution here.  My original thought was to hide the solder joint in the channel slot.  Bad idea.  This is where the bending occurs to get the strops pointing in the right direction.  I should have planned it better so that the solder joint fell in the lower straight portion of the deadeye strop.  The solder joints are barely visible anyway.  I had a few joints open up on me and being at the bending point right beneath the deadeye the only way to re-do the solder joint was to pop the face off the deadeye, remove it, re-solder the joint and then re-assemble the deadeye in the strop.

 

The chains were made up and blackened in the same manner using 24 guage wire.  The deadeye strops were inserted into the chain loops before soldering closed.  I also made up some backing links from the 24 guage wire.  These are the same style of elongated loops but with the center portion squeezed together and then the whole thing is bent so the the end loops are offset in order to fit from the wale to the hull planking below the wale.

The sharp eyed of you will note that some of the deadeyes are not set straight in the strops.  The ones for the aftermost shrouds have a slight angle to accomodate the angle of the shroud.  The pins in the above photo are bending jigs set for the size of the chains and the backing links.

 

 

The eyebolts in the hull were prized open, a backing link was put on each one, and then the chain/deadeye assembly.  The deadeye strop was then swung up into place in the slot in the channel.  A little flat black touch up paint was used to cover up some spots were the blacking was rubbed off with the pliers.

 

Still to come... filling the holes cut into the edge of the channels and pinning the lower loops of the backing links to the hull.

 

See you next time.

 

Regards,

[usedtosail]

Very nice work, Henry.

[docidle]

Henry,

Thanks for the tutorial on your dead eyes and chains. I have been wrestling with the same issue on my Imai Catalan Ship. I do not want to use just the line to strop them so I have been playing around with wire to get the look I want. This post helped a great deal.

 

Steve

[lambsbk]

Nice detail work Henry. The wire does look like a tricky material to work with on the deadeyes. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Ray1981]

Great explanation on how to make the lower deadeyes. I saw mostly lower deadeyes with hooks but I think the French did it different (im not sure about that) so I was looking on how to make them with rings.

 

Wonderfull!

[EJ_L]

Henry, I just found your log and I must say that you are doing a fantastic job. As I'm researching this ship and looking through build logs for ideas and clarifications for my own build in a few months I will be following along with yours as it is truly great.

 

Keep up the excellent work!

[popeye2sea]

I can't believe it has been 5 months since I posted anything here.  That pesky thing called work keeps getting in the way.  Don't worry the build is still active.  As soon as I can I will get back to it.

 

Regards,

[foxy]

Nice bit o work on what is turning out to be a cracker of a build, with lots of scratch items too.

 

Nice to follow .

 

Frank 

[Fright]

Henry - Your craftsmanship on the gun tackle is outstanding! I am at awe how you can work with such fine detailed parts and scale. I'm trying to do a 'bare minimum' job on my gun tackle and I'm all thumbs.   An incredible job on all of your painting detail and mold making. Hi 5 on your model!

Edited December 16, 2016 by Fright

[Hubac's Historian]

Hello Henry,

 

I've been reading through your build log with great interest and amazement at your scale rigging achievements. Your metal work (chandlery) is some of the best I've seen, and I am heartened by many of the suggestions for improving the appearance of the carriages.

 

I know you have discussed the outboard to inboard leads of sheets and tacks - and all of the inherent problems the kit presents on that subject - but I wonder what your thoughts are on chesstrees.

 

Since I won't be using my kit's quarter galleries, I am thinking about salvaging the greenman figures from the quarter deck windows and using them as chesstrees.  I suppose a lion face would be more period appropriate, but a greenman is not un-precedented.

 

What are yor thoughts on chesstrees?

 

Kind regards,

 

Marc

 

 

[popeye2sea]

Marc,

 

Thanks for looking in on my too long dormant build.  It's hard to find time to work in the shipyard, lately.

 

I have also been following your build with great interest.  I'm looking forward to seeing the progress.  I'm more of a rigging guy so the changes I have made to my builds hull are minimal.

 

As if I have the time to do more stuff I have been mulling over the making of a pictorial history lesson about how the lower masts are raised and stepped as well as how the tops were swayed up into position.  I thought it might be of some interest to a few of us nautical history buffs.  Who knows....maybe someday.

 

To your question on chesstrees; R.C Anderson gets into some of the details in his book The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast.  In which he suggests that French and Dutch vessels usually used a chesstree timber (fore and aft hole) up to about 1660.  Afterwards the chesstree was a direct hole through the bulwark often ornamented as a lions head.

 

Regards,

Edited September 21, 2017 by popeye2sea

[Hubac's Historian]

Absolutely, a pictorial history of setting the masts and spars would be of great interest!  I appreciate the time crunch of modern living, though.

 

Like you, I am using Anderson and also Lees to rig the model.  Anderson will be particularly helpful for determining mast and spar dimensions, which I will need to do soon, because I will have to step shortenned masts onto the hull platten/base before I go too far with the actual build.  I'll be looking in on you frequently for tips and solutions to the more vexing problems, as this will be my first serious attempt to rig a model.

 

the last time I visited the Constitution was 6-7 years ago.  Might we have crossed paths then?

 

All the best,

Marc

[popeye2sea]

Surgery....

 

I have been posting on others build logs lately about the position of the halliard knight.  It properly is offset from the centerline to give clearance for the main stay.   It has been bothering me that the way the knight is installed on the Heller kit is exactly on center.  I would feel like a hypocrite if I left it this way.  So...I decided to remove the fore halliard knight and shift it approximately it's own width to starboard.

 

The good thing is that I have not installed the fo'c's'le deck on the ship yet so I can still get at things from underneath.  Removal of the knight was accomplished with an exacto blade scoring over the joints and wiggling the knight free.  It came out with no damage.  Then the mounting hole was widened and the deck piece that I cut out was fit into the old hole.  Additional styrene strip was used to fill in the remaining gap and the joints were puttied with contour putty.  The knight was mounted in it's new hole and some touch up paint completes the job.

 Pictures to follow...

 

Regards,

Edited October 5, 2017 by popeye2sea

[lambsbk]

Pics Henry..pics my friend....

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi Henry,

 

Lately, I have been thinking a lot about the issues of sheets and tacks as I begin detailing my upper bulwarks.  I thought I would come visit your log again because I remember that you were grappling with the fair-leads on these, earlier in the log.  I definitely agree with you about not attaching the main brace to the flagstaff.  I really like your work-arounds for the spritsail sheet, Main sheet and fore brace.

 

I was thinking, though, that I might incorporate a sheaved block for the main sheet, that then enters the main deck upper bulwark, just forward of the QG.  Perhaps a similar scenario could be employed on the fore sheet?  The thing I was trying to ascertain, though, was whether the practice of incorporating a sheet sheeve directly into the timbers of the upper bulwarks, was a practice observed by the French before 1692.  Any advice there?

 

I've also been thinking about belaying pins.  No matter what, I will be shaving off the moulded belaying pins (because I've already broken off a number of them, anyway) and replacing them with brass.  In your research, would you agree that the use of pin rails did not really come into widespread use, by the French, until later in the 18th Century?  Would you say that this practice of tying off to the sheer rail is accurate and appropriate for the time period?

 

At the moment, I'm working through Anderson, trying to figure out my mast and spar dimensions.  That has been interesting, to say the least!  I've said it before, but your rigging work is really awesome!  I marvel at your ability to re-create full-scale practice in 1/100 scale.

[popeye2sea]

As far as I can tell during this period the tacks and sheets did not come inboard through sheaved holes.  Sometimes they used decorated holes (lion heads and such) and other times they used chesstrees as fairleads.

 

I am not sure what would be proper about belaying pins.  My reading is that they were not much used in this period, however I have been leaning towards using the pin locations on the side bulwarks but replacing the plastic ones with brass. I know that they would have been wood but I like the contrast with the royal blue bulwarks. The lines to the beakhead bulkhead will remain tied off to the rail stanchions.

 

Speaking of the beakhead bulkhead, I have seen a model of the SR (I believe it is M. Saunier's) with sheaves let into the base of the rail stanchions to redirect the lines up to the stanchion head.  Do you know if this was actually done?  I am thinking of adding them into mine.

 

The list of upgrades keeps getting longer 

 

 

I wish I had more time to get back into the model.  It is sitting here by my desk calling to me.  I am getting some outstanding projects finished that should free up a bit of time. 

 

Regards,