HMS Cruiser by Thunder - FINISHED - Caldercraft - 1:64 Scale

[jwvolz]

Irene was captured as Grasshopper in 1811. The standing rigging plan in the book cites it as being a Cruizer class plan, and not as modified by the Dutch after the capture. It could have been an early plan, but that would still be 1797 at the earliest. Who knows which is correct...

[Thunder]

I suppose as the Cruiser class was the largest class of ships ever in the Royal Navy it would also span over a long period of time so no rights or wrong. I also have the 'Building Plank on Frame Ship' Models by Ron McCarthy. For this book he is building the earlier Cruizer class. He has the main mast and preventer as your model but the main topmast stays are main over preventer. Although the run is slightly different again.

 

As I am building with long guns instead of Carronades I was going to make the rig to as originally launched but with all the contradictory information it is very difficult to know what is right. You would normally work on the principal that as you rig further up or out then the rigging lines get finer. 

[Thunder]

Decided to bring the log up to date. Partly because I need advise or should I say start a debate. Anyway up date first.

 

Since last updated I have rigged the following items:

 

• Topmast Stays
• Topmast Preventer Stays
• T'gallant Shrouds
• T'gallant backstays
• T'gallant Stays
• Bowsprit horses
• Martingales
• Horses and Flemish horses
• Spritsail Halyards
• Jibboom Guy Pendants
• Boomkin shrouds
• Lower mast slings
• Jeers
• truss pendants
• Tackle pendants
• inner and outer tricing lines
• Lifts
• Driver boom rigging
• Gaff Guy rigging

Update photographs below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[captain_hook]

Nice build and rigging! The Cruizer-class brig is one of my favorites.

[Thunder]

Now I come to where I am stuck.

 

I am at the point of rigging the Main Yard braces. On a brig of this period this was classed as the cross jack yard. For English naval brigs I always thought that the cross jack yard carried no sail.

 

I had planned to rig the braces forward, as on the Mizzen mast of a ship rigged vessel. i.e. crossing from larboard to the starboard shrouds of the main mast. Obviously in a brig this would be from main mast cross jack yard to fore mast shrouds. However, on a ship rigged vessel, this was more to do with the spread of the masts and the angles to make good handling. As soon as I started to rig this I noticed this would not be an issue with the positioning of the masts on the cruiser.

 

This has led me to investigate further and of all the books I have it leads me to conclude that I am correct that the main lower yard was indeed a cross jack yard and that it did not carry a sail. The main sail was a Gaff sail extending over the transom. I further have read that the braces led aft for Royal Naval Ships. They led forward for merchants and other navies.

 

This puts me at odds with all the builds on this site and with the latest models by Vanguard. I am only talking of the period before 1796 as soon after 1800 this did change. This still puts me at odds with the above. Before this period a vessel with two masts and a sail on the main mast would have a shorter gaff sail and be called a 'Snow'. The gaff sail would be laced to an effective mizzen set up to rear of the main.

 

I cannot believe every one else has this wrong but have you all just followed kit instructions. Remember research following an American brig rigging would not be correct for an English vessel.

 

So what is correct:

 

option 1 - crossjack yard braces rigged forward and crossing over from larboard to starboard on the foremast shrouds.

option 2 - crossjack yard leading forward to foremast but no cross.

option 3 - main yard arm ( so having a sail) leading forward without the cross ( as most have rigged here)

option 4 - Main yard with sail, braces leading forward with the cross.

option 5 - main yard leading forward but each side of yardarm having braces set to both sides of foremast rigging. Have seen one of this kit rigged like this and does not work when tryng to brace yard to wind.

option 6 - crossjack yard braces leading aft (this is what my research suggests but is at odds with everyone.

Option 7 - main yard with sail but braces leading aft ( this is shown for all Snow rigs)

 

When i say that most have allowed for option 3 i have assumed they are allowing for a sail by the fact that clewgarnets sheets and tacks are rigged. These would attach to the corner of the sail.

 

 

photos shows me starting to rig forward before I stopped.

 

I really do hope that I can get the debate I need here and that Chris can demonstrate where he got his rig for Speedy and Flirt as that research would be a great help.

 

 

     

[Wahka_est]

Amazing work! You are my example with this build as Cruiser is my first build based only on drawings.

 

Im at the stage where i need to start attatching blocks to yards and masts. Can you guide me how you attached them (knots). I have tried different ways from youtube and also from this site but i really never got the to work as it loosens up or does not look nice.

Really would appriciate the help.

Vahur

[chris watton]

16 hours ago, Thunder said:

Now I come to where I am stuck.

 

I am at the point of rigging the Main Yard braces. On a brig of this period this was classed as the cross jack yard. For English naval brigs I always thought that the cross jack yard carried no sail.

 

I had planned to rig the braces forward, as on the Mizzen mast of a ship rigged vessel. i.e. crossing from larboard to the starboard shrouds of the main mast. Obviously in a brig this would be from main mast cross jack yard to fore mast shrouds. However, on a ship rigged vessel, this was more to do with the spread of the masts and the angles to make good handling. As soon as I started to rig this I noticed this would not be an issue with the positioning of the masts on the cruiser.

 

This has led me to investigate further and of all the books I have it leads me to conclude that I am correct that the main lower yard was indeed a cross jack yard and that it did not carry a sail. The main sail was a Gaff sail extending over the transom. I further have read that the braces led aft for Royal Naval Ships. They led forward for merchants and other navies.

 

This puts me at odds with all the builds on this site and with the latest models by Vanguard. I am only talking of the period before 1796 as soon after 1800 this did change. This still puts me at odds with the above. Before this period a vessel with two masts and a sail on the main mast would have a shorter gaff sail and be called a 'Snow'. The gaff sail would be laced to an effective mizzen set up to rear of the main.

 

I cannot believe every one else has this wrong but have you all just followed kit instructions. Remember research following an American brig rigging would not be correct for an English vessel.

 

So what is correct:

 

option 1 - crossjack yard braces rigged forward and crossing over from larboard to starboard on the foremast shrouds.

option 2 - crossjack yard leading forward to foremast but no cross.

option 3 - main yard arm ( so having a sail) leading forward without the cross ( as most have rigged here)

option 4 - Main yard with sail, braces leading forward with the cross.

option 5 - main yard leading forward but each side of yardarm having braces set to both sides of foremast rigging. Have seen one of this kit rigged like this and does not work when tryng to brace yard to wind.

option 6 - crossjack yard braces leading aft (this is what my research suggests but is at odds with everyone.

Option 7 - main yard with sail but braces leading aft ( this is shown for all Snow rigs)

 

When i say that most have allowed for option 3 i have assumed they are allowing for a sail by the fact that clewgarnets sheets and tacks are rigged. These would attach to the corner of the sail.

 

 

photos shows me starting to rig forward before I stopped.

 

I really do hope that I can get the debate I need here and that Chris can demonstrate where he got his rig for Speedy and Flirt as that research would be a great help.

 

 

     

Nice model - but I apologise, it was one of my very first...

 

For the rigging, I follow the main sources. It is important to note that by the end the 18th Century and most definitely 1800 and after, the crossjack was replaced with a main yard and sail. It is highly likely this practise was used well before 1800, with commanders experimenting with the best set up for their vessels.

 

I am sure all Cruiser Class would have had a main yard instead of crossjack. Flirt would be a grey area, but Speedy would have had the main yard, as this is depicted as it probably looked in around 1800.

[Thunder]

Thank you for the reply Chris. Wish I realised and asked sooner as I have rigged the yard without Jeers now. It is a shame most books concentrate on the ship rig and have little data for these, the most numerous type of craft.

 

What are your thoughts on which way the braces led and if led forward did they cross over? I assume they crossed over to the opposite fore shroud to allow the yard to be even further braced round. Between a mizzen and main this might have been necessary but the main and fore on cruiser have enough distance between them to not need this.

 

Perhaps for a bit of variety you could offer rigging instructions for Flirt as a Snow, with the additional trysail mast.

[Thunder]

12 hours ago, Wahka_est said:

Amazing work! You are my example with this build as Cruiser is my first build based only on drawings.

 

Im at the stage where i need to start attatching blocks to yards and masts. Can you guide me how you attached them (knots). I have tried different ways from youtube and also from this site but i really never got the to work as it loosens up or does not look nice.

Really would appriciate the help.

Vahur

To be honest knots are one area i always promise myself that I will improve. If you have the patience a seizing would look better as this avoids the lump of the knot. A lot of the time i resort to a simple granny knot locked in place with superglue. I always put a small amount of the glue on an old tile and apply with a cocktail stick. Bees waxing the thread seems to make the knot hold better until glued.

[jwvolz]

Looks very nice.

 

I rigged mine per the Irene book for what that is worth, which looks like option 3...

 

Main/Crossjack yard braces originating on fore shrouds, taken to block on yard pendant, then back through a leading block on fore shrouds, then belayed to bulwark pinrail. 

[Vane]

Just a thought, more than 100 ships of the cruizer class was built. I would guess that in the end some of them might have looked slightly different with minor differences than exactly the same like a T-ford.   

[Thunder]

Hi Joe, thank you for the reply.

 

I decided to stick with it as a cross jack yard as not rigged Jeers etc. I then tried all methods for this my thinking being that it would have been rigged as most practical for the operation of bracing the yard round and so controlling the bottom edge of the topsail. In the end I went with option 2.

 

I have tried getting hold of that book but have only seen tatty copies that seem expensive.

[Wahka_est]

Hi Thunder

 

Im doing the cannons and found out there isnt any instructions how to tackle them. Luckily i have good books for that.

But heres my question-as there arent any instructions are there enough blocks and hooks in kit? I counted 25 hooks in kit but only for cannons we would need 4x18.....

Dis you tackle it directly to the eyelets on gunport openings eyelets and same with cannon itself?

 

Vahur

[Thunder]

Hi Wahka,

 

I made additional rigging blocks as the ones in the kit will be too large. If you have the same amount of blocks in the kit as i had then there will not be enough. I am just finishing my rigging and have dipped into my own stock. I have rigged additional items such as reef tackles and bowlines.

 

 

The thread is the finest you can get which is used in angling for fly tying.

 

Blocks that small I have made from white styrene and painted. I think the doubles were 2mm by 2.6mm and the singles 1.5mm by 2mm. Get the length of styrene and cut the grooves along each length, paint brown, drill first block holes and cut from length. Once all cut thread onto some wire to paint the ends. If you experiment with different electrical side cutters the action of cutting produces a curved end to the block. You just have alittle bit of waste cutting the first curve of the second block.

 

Don't close ups really show off all the faults!

[Thunder]

Sorry missed a comment, I did not use hooks, just rigged direct to eyebolts.

 

Incidently you can see i used CA here and you can see the discolouration i mentioned and the kinks put into the threads due to them going brittle.

[Wahka_est]

I see more info missing from kits drawings. It should be 4 eyelets per gunport not 2.

Thank you very much Thunder! Its very helpful.

 

Vahur

[Wahka_est]

As i ordered extra hooks i decided to try to do them as you and as they are supposed to be. Tnx for the helping hand again.

[Wahka_est]

I noticed just now(stupid of me) that kit probably does not have thicker rope that goes behind cannon. What size did you use there and if its no secrect whose you use?

[Thunder]

Hi sorry for slow reply, I have been away and could not say till I came home and had a look at the model.

 

I used 0.75 Amati. I do prefer Amati for the larger sized threads for both colour and quality. The natural colour only. The larger standing rigging is dyed Amati Natural.

 

 

[Mike_H]

Just dropped in as part of preparing to build Snake (following your visit to my log).  Great to see you resolving your issues leading up to planking.  I'll focus on those for a bit. 

 

Mike

[Wahka_est]

Havent updated for a month but work hasnt been stopped.

 

Still working on cannons. Yesterday received last blocks for tackle. Did first line and i love the added detail. Just winder how to get rope  “more loose” so it would look more natural. Also i will probably tie it up - transport state.

 

Also deadeyes almost done. Last fixing when ropes are attached to get right line. This was sort of an headache as i cant close the “chainplates”. Also tried soldering deadeye iron bands-sry but cant do it so used epoxy to close it.

About closing cahinplates-read that others also left it open as it near impossible to do it. Im trying to find 1mm brass tube (yeah good luck with that) so i could so call overlap it.

 

Other  than that im close to glue the mast and start rigging and doing yards. Some are ready for blocks, some not.

 

I feel that im really close to ending this chapter of the build and getting to next one (masts and rigging).

I fear rigging the most as drawing are Sometimes hard to under stand. Thunder definitely helps with his build but he researches his rigging so im hard spot little bit.

Probably some part of rigging will be unlogical and total ship also when finished but still-first one hopefully done soon

[Thunder]

I am at the final stages of my build. Just the final tidying up and mounting on a stand.

 

Wahka, I usually write each stage of the rigging down and did so with this model, however, did not make such a good job of it as usual. Big lesson learnt. On the next model i will do the research before completing the deck furniture to make sure i have the correct belaying points. Better notes and my own drawings. 

[Thunder]

I did take these photographs but did not like how turned out. Will do some more once mounted.

 

 

 

[rkwz]

That is an amazing and fine looking ship!

[Wahka_est]

11 hours ago, Thunder said:

I did take these photographs but did not like how turned out. Will do some more once mounted.

 

 

 

Hi Thunder,

 

Those are super helping! First impression was "wow that looks almost like mine".

Easier would be to lend your model and copy/paste from there

 

It is really nice to build in cooperation with someone experienced - thank you for all the support Thunder!

 

Do you allready have next build choosen?

[Wahka_est]

Haha i just noticed i posted my uodate under your log. Sry for that

[Thunder]

Hi Wahka,

 

Yes considering my next build. I do have other kits started, what i call my holiday kits, I.e. kits i start in the evenings when away from home. I have the Airfix kits of Great Western and Sovereign of the seas started as well as the Pyro USS Alliance and Constructo's Halifax. The two Airfix kits and the Alliance are all at the point of doing the rigging.

 

I will be, however, starting a new wooden kit but I have many already purchased to choose from. Just deciding which one is the problem.

 I have:

 

Jotika's Diana, Granado, William, Bounty, Endeavour, Mary Rose. Mamoli's Yacht Mary, Victory's Pegasus and Lady Nelson. Euromodel's Mordaunt, Aeropiccolla's Serapis, Lauck Street's Fair American. Art's Prince de Neufchatel, Rhoda Mary, Revell's Rattlesnake, SWM's Mevagissey Lugger. 

 

Which would you choose?

[Wahka_est]

1 hour ago, Thunder said:

Hi Wahka,

 

Yes considering my next build. I do have other kits started, what i call my holiday kits, I.e. kits i start in the evenings when away from home. I have the Airfix kits of Great Western and Sovereign of the seas started as well as the Pyro USS Alliance and Constructo's Halifax. The two Airfix kits and the Alliance are all at the point of doing the rigging.

 

I will be, however, starting a new wooden kit but I have many already purchased to choose from. Just deciding which one is the problem.

 I have:

 

Jotika's Diana, Granado, William, Bounty, Endeavour, Mary Rose. Mamoli's Yacht Mary, Victory's Pegasus and Lady Nelson. Euromodel's Mordaunt, Aeropiccolla's Serapis, Lauck Street's Fair American. Art's Prince de Neufchatel, Rhoda Mary, Revell's Rattlesnake, SWM's Mevagissey Lugger. 

 

Which would you choose?

Cc Diana might be the choice....but also love Chris Wattons work on Victory line also so maybe Pegasus.

 

I also have many standing on self from Model Shipways as they had so good discount i could not leave it so got: Confederacy, Essex, Constitution, Flying Fish, Benjamin Latham.
Also have Occre Beagle but somehow i it dosent call me at all so i will give it to my uncle.

 

I have unfinished Terror (my first) but i dont like it at all as my wuality there is so bad. Allmost close to rigging there. Master Korabel Polotsk has hull ready so at some stage will finish that but really small details are headache with that.

[Thunder]

I'm going to complete my rigging research for the Sovereign of the seas whilst also starting a wooden kit. Although just purchased the NMM plans of the Serapis I think it will be either the Diana, Granado or Fair American.

[Wahka_est]

Thunder dis you put eyelets on deck around the masts? Rigging drawing shows them but deck plan does not...