Live steam Bagnall loco and other railway stuff

[Mirabell61]

Lovely Toolmaker`s work Michael,

you`re doing a fantastic job !!

 

Nils

[realworkingsailor]

1 hour ago, michael mott said:

Thank you for your explanation Andy I did not know that background, can you recommend any particular reading on the subject?

 

Michael

Unfortunately I have yet to stumble upon a definitive work on the subject. Most of what I’ve learned comes from various tidbits from a diverse assortment of sources, and a deep and undivided fascination with all things steam. Short of being able to dig up an old railway shop manual on the subject. Maybe if I was a bit more literarily inclined.....

 

Andy

[michael mott]

The shaft to hold the arms (weight Shaft) has been fitted the brackets were a bit fiddly to make. they were machined up from a couple of hard brass blanks of 7/8 diam brass rod.

 

 

 

 

 

The end of the shaft that is bent up will form the bottom connecting point to the reversing lever that is attached to the side of the boiler so it is unfinished until the rest of the linkage is fitted. The lifting arms will come next and be pinned to the weight shaft. hence the reason for the split bracket on the one side. Once the arms are attached the shaft will not be able to be slipped out of the brackets without removing the top of the bracket on the left side.

 

Michael

 

 

 

[michael mott]

Another update the weight-shaft has now been finished and the arms are glued to the shaft ready to be pinned.

The arms were machined from some stress free 1144 steel bar stock.

then a jig made to hold them in the correct relationship to each other and glued with some CA glue in order to pin them with some taper pins.

 

 

 

The sequence shows the relationship to the rest of the valve train. next the lifting arms and work out how the gett all these bits fitted together with my large fingers.

 

Michael 

[michael mott]

Happy new year to everyone.  Things are getting to be quite challenging at this stage the more parts that get made and that need to interact with other parts is becoming difficult to "get by" with small inaccuracies. The eccentric rods there are 4 of them have to be narrow enough to fit between the hanging links from the weight shaft but be able to have connecting pins held in place (in full size practice by taper pins) the previous ones I made were too wide and the space in which the straight link was pinned was too wide as well.

These are the radius rod hangers they are OK

disassembly (again)

So I though I would make them over with some steel I did one as a test (didn't work out too well) so another test using some hard brass (a second failure) Then decided to rethink the whole thing and went back to the drawing board (Auto-cad) and made some adjustments to the tolerances and dimensions of the arms keeping the lengths the same as these are critical for the valve timing. and started over on the arms. They are not "perfect' but will work.

 

One of the areas that I needed to change the most was the slot into which the straight link fitted the steel of the link is .075" thick and the original slot was cut with an end mill that I had that was .090" I thought this would be OK but it wasn't A friend who has built some larger model steam engines told me that you need to ensure that there is a bit of "give" in the gaps and linkages in order that things do not bind because the axles are sprung and move in a couple of planes (basically in a twisting motion when moving over irregularities on the track) I found out that there is also a limit to how much "slop" one need to build in.

 

I used a slotting saw the second time around and made the fit much closer. I also simplified the shape a little from the Actual shape of the full size loco, in order to simplify the manufacture of the part. I used my old grinding vice that I made as an apprentice as it allowed me to hod the part more easily than the regular milling vice.

After the slots were cut I used some filing buttons to shape the ends.

 

The split large ends of the eccentric rods were thinned down a little on a temporary faceplate jig. I used the same plate to trim up the straight link hangers that were made from some free machining hex steel.

I am going to have to make a special jig to assemble the links to the radius rods and the eccentrics before putting them as sub assemblies into the frames. I take my hat off to the watchmakers in the crowd.  

 

Michael   

[Bedford]

Well I've just looked through this entire thread and as usual Michael, you've left me feeling extremely amateur in my machining abilities. Always a joy to see how you do things. 

[Kurt Johnson]

Watching a craftsman at work in any area is always such a pleasure! I can’t imagine the amount of satisfaction it brings you. Especially when you perfect areas you weren’t satisfied with. You must spend as much or more time planning and building in your head than with your hands and those ”a ha” moments must feel great.

 

Keep it coming.

 

Kurt

[michael mott]

I had to take a break on this model in order to keep my sanity. it is on the shelf for a while, I will most definitely get back to it.

 

Michael

[Keith S]

Hi Michael, I just wanted to say hello and what a pity I only just joined this forum. I used to fly to Edmonton once a week and be a loose ends during the day. Unfortunately I have a different job now. I wish I had been able to make your acquaintance. I live in Yellowknife you see, and I have some narrow-gauge models powered by a Roundhouse locomotive I built several years ago using their kits. I am the only person I know in this continent with an interest in garden railways, and unfortunately don't have a garden. My loco chuffs desolately around in circles on the lounge floor when Mrs. Keith isn't home. 

 

Well just wanted to say hi. I was admiring your work on the "model" cutter, and now I see you like steam engines as well. You must be an interesting chap. Cheers.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Keith S

[michael mott]

Hello Keith, sorry for not replying earlier I have not been on the forum in a few months, one thing and another. I have been working out in the garden and had to relay all my track in the raised bed because I did not lay the track very well the first time round. Then all this Covid stuff happened and I have been beavering away on a new project.

 

I like your Loco, the roundhouse parts are well liked by Peter Angus if you know of his work he has built hundreds of locos using roundhouse parts. Have you anyplace outside where you could run your loco?

 

I will check in more often now.

regards Michael

[Keith S]

Hello Michael, as a matter of fact I just finished building a large deck in my wasteland of a back garden before the freezing weather arrived. I wanted a real garden, but the ground my house is built on is just manufactured ground made of large boulders filled in with diminishing grades of crushed rock. So I would have had to build up a great deal of soil and retaining walls, etc. I've settled for decking over the whole lot and installing planter-boxes with tops that are flush with the deck. Anyway I now have a level surface for some track, although it will not be a true garden railway and my wife will probably react negatively to permanently installed tracks. I was thinking about using a router to carve flangeways in it but this is probably a pipe-dream. Still, some temporary tracks to have fun now and then might be acceptable. 

 

I am familiar with Peter Angus' work. He makes nice-looking locomotives. I have a subscription to "16mm Today" and membership in the garden railway association so I see lots of locomotives. Mine is basically a standard RH "Billy" with the side bunkers removed and a new spectacle-plate added. 

 

I've been concentrating on my  model of "HMS Terror" lately, but in Springtime will probably set up tracks on the deck and give the steam train a run.

 

 

[michael mott]

Hi Keith, well again sorry for the long delay as you might have guessed I have been down a few more of my rabbit holes. The deck sounds like a great project. The ability to set up the track on a nice flat surface is a plus with live steam, and given the climate in our parts of the world the ability to take it up over the winter is not such a bad thing really. We are going back down temperature wise it is currently -20C and overnight are set to get down to -36C in the next couple of days. The RH Billy looks great, was the kit difficult or an easy job? I think they sell their cylinder sets as a separate item. I have considered buying a set to bypass all that side of the work.

 

And regarding the other rabit holes I have been working on a 12 foot long by 2 foot wide layout in 7/8th scale of a section of a locomotive building building works with the Crewe works as inspiration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then there is the Hospital tramway model layout that is also 7/8th scale and just 4 square feet of model surface .

this first picture is in the public domain and shows the intersection of two corridors and one of the electric locomotives.

 

This is my proposed floor plan.

 

 

and the 3rd or fourth iteration of the loco.

 

 

The wooden flooring is laid over some old salvaged rail from some HO gauge set track that was soldered to brass spacers the gauge is 1.25 inches

 

 

The flooring is Yellow cedar.

 

 

Then there are these two locos, One of Montagues new fangled electric experimental locos. this parts salvaged from an old battery drill. it is 1:10 scale and 45mm gauge

 

 

My own design for a forward and reverse switch using a rotary set of wipers.

 

 

testing the efficacy of the switch

 

It worked well enough

 

 

Using the old third hand to do a bit of soldering.

 

And finally this odd loco using some salvaged printer motor and gears with some Servo link plastic chains for the drive, it has gone through many iterations as well it is based on the only known photograph of a 2 foot gauge loco built by the Saunderson Gifkins Tractor Company and is dated around 1912

 

 

 

The gas tank is some .005 thou styrene wrapped around a block of Poplar the gas cap is a watch winder from the stock of watchmaking bits that I acquired from an old friend.

The battery will be located in the water tank that was also used as added weight for traction. it is 7/8th scale and set up for 45mm track gauge, the loco will be using a LocoRemote control system that uses my phone to control it.

 

That pretty much sums up the last year and some of my rabbit holes.

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by michael mott
add picture and text

[Canute]

Very nice work, Michael. Those dinky engines are a fascinating study.

 

PS. I do hope the engineer/Engine driver in that last is drinking some sarsaparilla. Else, he'd be violating Rule G of almost any railroad about intoxicants. 

[michael mott]

Ken, look more closely, I'm not sure what baccy he is using though😉

 

Michael

 

 

[Keith S]

I love the rails inset into the yellow cedar flooring. That's exactly what I had in mind for my deck, although I will probably never get around to it. The little locomotives are brilliant. I especially like the electric one with the functioning scale motor controls.

 

The "Billy" was very easy to build. The instructions are really good. If you just buy cylinders, Roundhouse will give you their information on valve-gear geometry to help with that part of it. I was thinking of buying a pair to power a model steam-boat:another pipe-dream of mine. The "Billy" built up from three kits: the chassis (including cylinders and valve gear) which bolts together using Roundhouse-supplied BA spanners, plus you need a screwdriver and a needle file to dress the rods a bit. That's about it. The next kit is the steam plant, including boiler, burner, safety-valve, regulator, lubricator, gas tank, pressure gauge, &c. All the silver-soldering is done already, and it comes with test certificate and just goes together using the supplied spanners and screwdriver. The body kit is etched brass, with all the fold lines etched in, and requires a bit of soft-soldering by the builder. I found painting to be the most difficult part. Setting up the valve-gear took a bit of work but the instructions reduce it to a very methodical and logical process. 
 

 

 

 

[michael mott]

First a merry Christmas to everyone

A watercolour after Walter phillips I feel this captures the current Christmas feel.

 

As it is evident T have not been working on the model boat stuff lately, after the surgery an a spell of doing nothing model related, once the healing had progressed enough That I could do some work it was confined to using the lathe and mill. I had an old project that I had started in 2004 and was inspired to do a bit of work on it.

This picture will give you an idea of where this is going.

 

 

Around 2009 I had it set up with a plastic frame this was worked around an Aristocraft 0-4-0 chassis, but the plastic was sagging so i recently opted to rework it all.

 

The little fiddly parts were slowly worked on, and although the loco model is compromised regarding the proper gauge etc I decided to press on and try to complete it. As much as possible things work. 

The next picture shows the forward reverse lever and the brake lever. all the nuts and bolts are made by me except the 00x90 ones.

Rivets are 1/16th.

A couple of week were spent sorting out how to make these wire handle valves .

 

The wire shape was a tricky bit of folding.

 

 

They are not exact but I am ok with that.

 

 

The back of the loco has a fair bit of fiddly bits and the sequencing of assembling the parts is a challenging.

This odd looking bit of brass is the main valve to let air out of the tank.

 

and fitted to the back of the loco, along with the pressure relief valve.

 

 

 

 

 

 on each side of the loco are sand boxes with a bunch of piping and odds and ends of unions and elbows. the copper pipe is 1/16th diameter, an early Christmas present was a Badger sand blasting kit.

 

 

The current state of the loco minus the buffer beams at the moment.

 

 

The brakes actually do work here is a short video of them earlier

 

Happy new year everyone.

 

Michael

 

[Canute]

Beautiful work, Michael. What pressure can you use, if it's going to operate?

[mtaylor]

That is some serious machine work, Michael.  And tiny to boot.  

[michael mott]

2 hours ago, Canute said:

Beautiful work, Michael. What pressure can you use, if it's going to operate?

Ah Ken sorry to disappoint but this one is Electric. The Real ones had  very short operational time between fills up to 900psi. The model will run on 2 9v batteries in parallel and be controlled by Locoremote, which allows me to use my I phone.

 

Michael

[michael mott]

56 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

That is some serious machine work, Michael.  And tiny to boot.  

Thanks Mark, the scale is 30mm to the foot which is 10.16 : 1 I chose that scale originally because 45mm =18 inches so 30mm =12 inches. A little smaller scale than the cutter.

 

Michael

[Canute]

Michael, sounds like the phone apps we have for model railroaders using Digital Command Control systems. Do you have room for a speaker? 😁

[michael mott]

1 hour ago, Canute said:

Do you have room for a speaker?

There is room But I am a complete Luddite when it comes to electronics. Locoremote has a number of different set ups including built in speakers and for adding ones own speakers. Perhaps once I have the current unit up and running with a bog standard 6-12 volt unit I would be able to swap it out for the other unit.

As it is the battery and electronics will slide out on a tray through the opening hatch on the front. the large clamp has two bolts that are long and capped at the inside end, by undoing them the plate that is behind the oval opening and the clamp can be rotated through 90 degrees to be removed to access the inside of the tank which is 3 inches in diameter. Then the rechargeable batteries can slid out on their tray.

 

Michael

[Roger Pellett]

Michael,

 

Spectacular work as usual.  Was this charged with steam or hot water?

 

Steam accumulators used in industrial applications and for US Navy aircraft carrier steam catapults store energy in high pressure hot water.  When steam is needed, the valve is opened and the hot water flashes to steam.

 

Roger 

[michael mott]

5 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Spectacular work as usual.  Was this charged with steam or hot water?

Thanks Roger, it was charged with neither, but with air.

 

Michael

[Roger Pellett]

Oh sure!  I just automatically thought steam.  Another question/ observation; the fins on the engine cylinders?  While fins are usually associated with cooling, I wonder if these are for transferring heat into the cylinder.  Otherwise, as the air expanded the drop in temperature could have frozen entrapped moisture.

[michael mott]

Yes you are correct Roger, the fins were for doing exactly what you are suggesting.. There were even attempts to use some preheating of the air with some of the developments of the air locos.  Albeit a bit counter productive in some cases as it negated the reason for using air in the first place, to avoid explosions in mines.

 

Michael

[FriedClams]

Good to see an update on this project Michael.  Wonderful detail and superb machine work.

 

Gary

[WalrusGuy]

Hi Michael 

 

Can't believe I just found out about this update. I'll be following this thread with a lot of interest.

 

I'm out of words to see the level of detail work going into this build... The video of the brakes working and seeing all the moving parts is very cool! 

 

The watercolor painting is gorgeous. Perfectly captures the Edmonton winter. 

 

Wishing you and Judy a happy new year! 

 

Harshil 

Edited January 3, 2022 by WalrusGuy

[wefalck]

Interesting project to follow for sure !

[michael mott]

Thank you all for your kind comments,

This Project is rapidly coming to a close, here are few picture taken over the last day or so.They include the sanding pipes and the air lines and valves for the sanders.

 

 

 

 

 

Just a couple more large filler valves to go and a bit of painting and weathering. Then she can become a bit of a shelf queen for a while. I am particularly pleased with the 00x90 square headed locking bolt on the air valve lever hub in the last picture.

 

Michael

Edited January 4, 2022 by michael mott
added some extra text.