HMS Speedy by Delf - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 - Master Shipwright edition

[Blue Ensign]

Your Speedy is looking beautiful Derek.

On the subject of side tackles I don't think the difference between four and six pounders is that great in terms of fitting difficulty, and in my opinion is feasible at 1:64 scale. 2mm blocks are the size to use along with 0.1mm line. Hooks are the big issue as provided brass etched versions are out of scale and take up too much room. A simplified approach is to use thin wire or modified small eyebolts to make hooks which don't  detract from the look at the scale involved.

Making up 28 tackles  is a bit of a pain, but the job can be done at intervals and setting up a little jig helps a lot.

 

B.E.

[DelF]

Thanks B.E., very helpful advice.  I must admit I’ve been struggling to work out how to manage hooks that size. 
 

Derek

[glbarlow]

On 6/14/2020 at 3:53 PM, DelF said:

using Glenn's doggy dental tool (again!):

Best tool ever, glad you’re liking it too

[glbarlow]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:25 AM, DelF said:

I'll blame you and VTH if I'm still struggling

And thank us 3 years from now and think this so much better with them rigged. 
 

I do have to acknowledge I never tried it with 4 pounders. That ship needs an armory upgrade. 
 

Actually I read the book on Cochran Chris recommended. He tried bigger cannon but it slowed the ship too much. He demonstrated he could carry the entire broadside of cannonballs in his pocket. 
 

The net result all these years later, you get to rig tiny cannons. 

[glbarlow]

8 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

setting up a little jig

BE is right, this works and speeds the process. 

[DelF]

First attempts at cannon rigging

 

Thanks (?!) everyone for encouraging me to fully rig all Speedy's 14 four-pounders.

 

I wanted to have another go at making my own blocks. However I haven't been able to make anything acceptable at the required size, the smallest I can manage being about 2.75mm. Here it is with a Syren 2.0mm block for comparison:

 

 

Syren blocks aren't available at the moment but I was able to order some from Vanguard and they arrived today. I'm very happy with the quality:

 

 

...nicely shaped, with good grooves for the strop. Here's my first go at adding a strop and hook:

 

 

In both cases I made the hooks from brass wire, using the thinnest I have (0.33mm) for the new Vanguard block. Apart from my difficulty in achieving a consistent shape, I can't get them small enough to look right, so I had a re-think. Eventually I found I could drill a #80 hole in the end of a block, which is just right for the thinner wire. First, I pushed a short length of wire through the top sheave hole to prevent the shaft of the hook from interfering with the rigging line, then drilled through the top of the block until I hit the wire. Keeping the wire in place, I put a minute drop of CA on the hook and inserted the shaft in the block. No-one could have been more surprised than me when the glue held the hook, in what must be a truly tiny amount of wood. I've tried this before with tiny blocks and they've just crumbled under the drill, so it says a lot for the quality of Vanguard's pearwood.

Here's the new hooked block alongside the previous attempts:

 

 

The hook isn't perfect and I should be able to improve it, although at this scale I'm not sure how much it will show.

 

I took Glenn and Blue Ensign's advice and made a little jig from scrap wood to rig the tackle off the model:

 

 

This is just a test for the side tackle so I've not blackened the hooks and I'm just using some spare 0.1mm line. I'll probably dye it a bit darker for the real thing. This is my first go at frapping:

 

 

Could do better, as my school reports often said!

 

However I'm quite pleased with the scale and overall appearance of the tackle, and that's what I was most concerned about. As I said previously, if I couldn't have managed something small enough and neat enough I'd rather just leave the guns un-rigged. 

 

Onwards and upwards then.

 

Derek

[Blue Ensign]

Spot on Derek, 👍

 

B.E.

[glbarlow]

Well done. I like that the cannon jig has its own stand:-D and thanks for providing a nice reference example for when I get to HM Flirts guns someday.  I'm hoping the 1:48 scale of Cheerful will help make it a little easier, maybe just a little.

 

[DelF]

Thanks guys. I'm still a bit daunted by the amount of work involved in fully rigging the guns (I think I'll be well over Chris's estimate of 50 - 70 hours for the build!) but at least I now know it's possible, and hopefully worth the effort.

 

11 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I like that the cannon jig has its own stand

My jigs are not usually that posh! The stand was lying around unused from a previous build - a Victory cross section that I built a picture frame for instead.

 

Derek 

[DelF]

There's a danger this is going to turn into "the cannon rigging log", 'cos that's all I seem to be doing these days.

 

Having said that I'm enjoying the challenge, including the opportunity to refresh old skills such as silver soldering. Having decided to fully rig the guns one of the first tasks has been to make the 28 ringbolts required for the breechings. I made my first attempt with 0.50mm brass wire...

 

 

 ...and quickly decided it was over scale. I settled on 30 s.w.g. / 0.32mm which equates to 20mm/0.8" at 1:64 scale. My method for making rings is fairly standard, starting by winding the wire round a 1.0mm drill bit...

 

 

...then cutting along the resulting coil with the smallest snips I could find:

 

 

The wire I'm using is soft, so squeezing the individual pieces back into rings is fairly easy - apart from the inevitable tendency for rings to go pinging off to be lost in the black hole lurking in most workshops. I probably lost around one in five that way (and yes, I've read the entertaining forum topic on that phenomenon and tried the various solutions suggested, all to little or no avail. But I digress). I thought I could get away without soldering the rings, but unfortunately the brass is so soft and easily bent that I had great difficulty getting them to stay on their bolts. So, out with the silver soldering kit. For very small jobs like this I use silver solder paste which works a treat as the flux and solder are combined in the one material. The brass is so thin I found the solder melted into the join when I got within about 20 mm with the torch. Here's what happened when I got too close:

 

 

Believe it or not, the blob on the right is all that was left of a ring the same size as the one on the left.

 

Next, I fitted bolts by just bending a piece of wire round the rings and snipping it off short. Before going any further I checked the breeching would pass through the ringbolt:

 

 

The breeching I'm using is 0.75mm rope I made on my Syren rope rocket. Another of my favourite tools. That test passed, I blackened then fitted the ringbolts:

 

 

 

I'm happy with the size and appearance. Unfortunately they rather show up the photo etch rings for the side and train tackles, but I draw the line at making another three ringbolts for every carriage. I'm sure all will look fine when all the tackle is in place.

 

On tackle, I've re-thought my approach to blocks and hooks. Although the method I described in a previous post works - gluing the hook in a hole drilled in the top of the block - the process involved is fiddly and nerve-wracking to say the least, and I'm not convinced the resulting tackle will be robust enough to withstand handling when I come to rig the guns. I can imagine a fair percentage failing.

 

So, in search of another approach I ordered some 0.20 mm brass wire. This is 12 mm/0.5" at scale which seems reasonable. I can't photograph the process I used at this scale, and neither can I claim copyright. I got the idea from EdT's magnificent Young America  log - here. Basically, you take a short length of wire, wrap it round the block, take one end and wrap it round the other, and shape the latter into a hook. I dropped the block complete with hook into acetone followed by Brass Black, which didn't seem to do the block any harm.  This is the result:

 

 

At 4 mm overall length I'm happy with that. Only another 83 to go!

 

Derek

 

[ErnieL]

I’m paying VERY close attention to this. Being a plastic modeler, I’m very detail oriented, and fully rigging the guns is a set goal of mine.

 

Lead on, kind Sir!

[DelF]

Cannon rigging #92 (ish)

 

Sorry Ernie - other duties around the house and garden have limited the time available for more important dockyard work.

 

I'm still not 100% comfortable with my first attempts at rigging the guns so I'm still experimenting. First, I wanted to see if I could incorporate a ring into the 2 mm blocks. There are tried and tested methods for this, but I wasn't sure how practical they would be with such tiny blocks. I started with a small jig consisting of a block of wood with three pins - one 0.5mm diameter to form the ring, and two of 0.3mm to fit the sheave holes. With the block pushed onto the pins the 0.2 mm wire is wrapped once round the pin...

 

 

...then round the block:

 

One end of the wire is wrapped around the other as shown above then cut off as close as possible. The remaining end is formed into a hook with a pair of fine needle-nose pliers and the excess wire snipped off. I was quite pleased with the result:

 

 

Dunking in acetone followed by Brass Black worked well. The wood looked a little dried out, probably due to the acetone, but a dab of matt varnish sorted that:

 

 

For the seizings I decided to use fly fishing thread. The one I like is just 0.04 mm/ 0.0016" - arguably TOO fine at just 2.5 mm/ 0.10" real size, but I'd always rather err on the side of under scale than over scale. Here it is on the bobbin, and being used to seize the breeching:

 

 

I tie the seizings in the normal way then put a tiny dab of the fly tying cement on the knots. Within a minute or two the excess line can be snipped off.

 

Here's the first gun rigged temporarily to see the overall effect:

 

 

I'm still not sure about the side tackles. Apart from anything else, they completely hide the neat little ringbolts I made on the carriage for the breechings. I've seen rigging where much more rope is left between the side tackle blocks, leaving space for more realistic frapping and allowing the whole tackle to hang down and show more of the breeching. Alternatively I could move the rear ringbolt onto one of the carriage steps.  I'll do some more experimentation. 

 

Having said all that, it doesn't look too bad from a distance 😀.

 

Derek 

[Edwardkenway]

The gun rigging you've shown looks very very good Derek, an admirable job at that scale😁👍

[Vane]

This is really impressive. These guns are really small. I have not yet decided on the ones on my speedy yet.

[DelF]

Thanks Edward and Vane. I've been so close to the work for the last few days that I'm probably not the best judge - your kind comments are very reassuring. 

 

Derek

[DelF]

Hi SpyGlass

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to put together such a helpful and informative post. That last picture captures exactly what I meant when I said I was thinking of lengthening the side tackle to let it hang more naturally and allow more frapping. I like the frapping on the breech ropes too.

 

34 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

put a pic of one with your finger in  to show the reality of their size!

Here's a photo I took a few weeks ago:

 

 

I've been putting off replacing the PE ringbolts, but I'm putting so much into these guns I think I may as well go the whole hog. Conversely, I may take a leaf out of Captain Cook's diaries and stow the guns in the hold! 

 

Thanks again for the kind words and encouragement. 

 

Derek

 

 

[DelF]

On 7/4/2020 at 10:08 PM, DelF said:

Conversely, I may take a leaf out of Captain Cook's diaries and stow the guns in the hold! 

Thanks for the thought SpyGlass, but on reflection and considering Cochrane's penchant for prizes, I don't think he would ever have stowed his guns in the hold. That may have worked for the great navigator Cook when all he had to contend with were islanders' canoes, but I think Cochrane must have been almost permanently ready for action considering the number of vessels he snapped up. So, I'll have to stick to plan A and press on with the rigging 

 

[glbarlow]

I’m sure a British war ship sailing the Med during a war as Speedy was didn’t store the guns, and as this is a model. It would be completely wrong not to have them. 
I wouldn’t worry about the size of the ring bolts, we all tend to obsess about things that won’t matter on the completed model. I doubt your friends from three feet away will say “why are those ring bolts out of scale.”

 

Really nice work on those tiny guns. While historically correct I wish it had a bit larger guns just for looks and easier to rig😕

[VTHokiEE]

Your gun rigging looks awesome! Now you have me considering if I should add the traversing tackle (if I remember the name right) when I do mine. I was quite impressed before seeing the picture with your finger for scale and after I’m a little blown away!

 

Looking forward a little. How do you secure the gun to the deck? Simply a drop of glue at each wheel?

[DelF]

Thanks for your kind comments guys

 

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

I doubt your friends from three feet away will say “why are those ring bolts out of scale.”

 

No, but I will now I've started obsessing about it!  I understand your point, but equally, I see no harm in striving for greater authenticity. Besides, you helped persuade me to rig the blasted things in the first place so I blame you for my current obsession 🤪

 

51 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

How do you secure the gun to the deck? Simply a drop of glue at each wheel?

 

That's what I plan to do. An alternative would be to put pins through the front and/or rear axles to the deck, but that's not really an option once the barrels and cap squares have been fixed to the carriages. 

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

As I said, we modelers are of the obsessed. I perfectly understand having recently ripped off so many of my own models planking multiple times. 
 

BTW: In the for what it’s worth category I prefer coils for the gun tackle, perhaps not the hyper neat Flemish coils, but natural coils either side. It seems to me this makes the guns more action ready, but perhaps not the best for routine sailing. Wrapped around the tackle makes sense too but again, in my opinion, makes it look a tad bulky. Either way is fine I think but I also think neither is better or more accurate than the other. I don’t see a British naval captain with a Operations Manual that designates ‘Proper arrangemention of gun tackle rope; chapter 4, subsection 3.2’ 😂🤣

[VTHokiEE]

15 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

run a fine pin through the base of the gun into the deck - cant be seen but gives a better fix i find

That’s not a bad idea, Thanks Spy! I’ll have to try that out. I was a little concerned a dot I’d hidden glue might not be quite enough to prevent them from getting knocked loose (by me...)

[glbarlow]

20 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

there WERE detailed Operations Manuals

I've yet to have a cannon come loose after I've used a drip of CA to each wheel. I do use the medium viscosity version of CA just for this task but I guess if you're adverse to CA in the first place the pin makes sense, likely a good way to have the cannons consistently placed at each gun port.

 

I'll continue with my loose coils on my guns, and with the guns run out, it is just a model after all. Everything I've read, including the book on Cochrane says Captains had near total discretion on how to manage their ships. My Captain likes coils, and CA on his cannon wheels.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how your Speedy turns out.

[DelF]

Cannon Rigging (again)

 

OK. this may be my last post on cannon for some time. I think I've figured out how I'm going to rig them, so it just remains to actually crack on with the task. My last bit of experimentation has been around replacing the carriage ringbolts and trying to make the side tackle look more realistic. 

 

I tried forming new ringbolts from 0.3 mm brass wire, but even my finest needle-nose pliers were too big. I ended up wrapping the wire round a 0.5 mm drill bit and pinching the end round with some long-nose pliers:

 

 

 

Once blackened, the new ringbolts look much better, to my eye:

 

 

 

Side by side with the original ringbolts the difference is obvious:

 

 

 

 

On side tackle, I've decided to stick with frapping. Ideally I'd probably want to show the tackle freed up for action, but I'm not sure I could get ropes and blocks this small to lay loose and look natural. I've also decided against coils. So, for the frapping I've just lengthened the distance between the blocks, allowing the tackle to hang lower and show more of the breeching. Here's what I've ended up with, minus the inhaul tackle which I'll fit when I eventually fix the carriages in place.

 

 

Now it's nose to the grindstone to get a production line going on the remaining 13 guns. I may be gone some time, as Captain Oates said.

 

Derek

 

 

 

 

[Richard44]

16 hours ago, DelF said:

I may be gone some time, as Captain Oates said.

 

Oates didn't return - I sincerely hope you do 🥴🥴

[Edwardkenway]

Very nice alterations to the gun rigging, the end product will make the extra mile worthwhile. 😁

[glbarlow]

Your method looks great, and a good choice give the guns are so tiny. You may have converted me on frapping, at least on Flirt when I get to her, Cheerful is big enough I’m sure the coils will work. The difference in your ring bolts is striking, thanks for the detailed explanation on making them, which I’ll put to use. 
 

In the book Chris recommended on Cochrane I learned he did replace all the guns with larger ones only to find the wouldn’t work for several reasons and he had to change them back. He could carry a full broadside of the shot in his pockets as he walked the deck. 
 

See you on the other side.

[DelF]

Thanks Glenn. 'Talking' these things through with you guys has really helped me make up my mind on the cannon rigging and several other Speedy issues. I'm so glad I'm taking a more active part in this forum now - it adds a whole extra dimension to my enjoyment of the hobby. So do your typos:

 

9 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

You may have converted me on flapping

...another beaut! 😁

 

I've read the one about Cochrane carrying a broadside around in his pockets - all I can say is that with seven balls each weighing four pounds and just over three inches in diameter, he must have had big strong pockets!

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

3 hours ago, DelF said:

So do your typos:

They aren’t typos, it is Apple making way too many decisions for me with predictive text on my iPad. I type the right word, Apple changes it to something it likes, and I don’t go back and edit.

 

But as long as it entertains then I’m fine with it, though I really should turn off predictive text. 

[DelF]

Interlude

 

I'd decided I wasn't going to post an update until I'd completed rigging at least the port or starboard guns, but as that is likely to be some time I'll post a quick update on two tools/products I've just got.

 

The first is Quadhands.

 

I saw this in other people's build logs and persuaded myself I needed one. I'm glad I did - it's so much more substantial and versatile than other helping hands I've used, with a solid metal base and five (not 4?) flexible arms. These are magnetic and are therefore re-positionable. Great for rigging jobs:

 

 

The second product I got for protecting Speedy's copper plates. I quickly decided not to leave the copper to weather naturally - I must have touched the hull with unprotected fingers in several places, because in a few days there were several unsightly smudges.  Using spare plates I experimented with a number of varnishes, both water-based and polyurethane, but didn't like the results. Finally I tried clear lacquer. The one I bought was intended for protecting touch-up paint jobs on cars:

 

 

I toyed with the idea of airbrushing the lacquer but after a test I found it brushed on really easily. It dried quickly and to my eye enhanced rather than masked the copper. From now on it'll be a relief not having to worry about touching the hull.

 

Back to the guns!

 

Derek