Viking longship by Cathead - Dusek - 1:35 - FINISHED

[Louie da fly]

That's amazing, mate! You've achieved a hell of a lot in just a year, and it was certainly worth the time spent. This is perhps the most beautiful model of a Viking ship I've ever seen .

 

Steven

[Cathead]

1 hour ago, Louie da fly said:

This is perhps the most beautiful model of a Viking ship I've ever seen .

 

That's high praise coming from you. If it was anyone else I'd say read more build logs, but I think you've read them all! So thank you, though I do think there are many other really nice ones out there. I'm really excited to see how various other details I'm working on come together.

[mbp521]

Eric,

 

Finally catching up on your build. The oars look great!  
 

Just my opinion to your posed question on how to display the oars, personally a display having them all spaced evenly apart looks great with a build that has no weathering, but in the case with yours, semi-chaotic, but slightly swept back would go along with the weathered theme you have going on.

 

I also agree with Gary,  great job on getting so many pieces to look uniform. One of the details I still struggle with without a jig. 
 

-Brian

[Cathead]

Playing with some detailing this afternoon. I made up some test parcels wrapped in simulated cloth. Who knows what they are, but they represent supplies the crew doesn't want getting wet. I also made several bundles of "spears", with stub-end shafts sticking out from the end of the wrapping (meant to keep saltwater off the metal tips). I might have wrapped these a little tight, I'm not sure there's actually room in there for the full spears and spearhead, but I don't think it's noticeable in the broader context of the model. The wrapping is the kit's original sailcloth weathered with pastels.

 

 

What do you all think, tie up the "parcels" like the front two or leave them untied like the back three?

 

And here are details test-placed in context. Large chests at the stern:

 

 

Large and small chests at the bow, along with an open "barrel" I was thinking of filling with swords. Or maybe it's just a water barrel, like a scuttlebutt? I made this by gluing thin wood strips to a piece of plastic tubing:

 

 

Parcels and closed barrels tucked into the thwarts:

 

\

 

Spear bundles just aft of the mast:

 

 

I like the complexity these add. Not sure how many more I need, I also don't want the model to be too busy, and I still have to figure out where/how to display a bunch of shields. 

 

Thoughts on this arrangement?

 

[mtaylor]

Looking great from here, Eric.   I'd just stick some small dowels or wood strips in the weapons barrel and then cover it.  I'd think that in an open barrel that water spray would get in there and start rusting the blades.  Or maybe they heavily oiled the blades?

[Cathead]

Mark, I agree that in reality there's no way swords would be stored in an open barrel like that. I was thinking of it as an artist's license way to display some weaponry more openly (same reason why the oars will be run out with the sail hoisted). Haven't decided. It may be best just to cover it, as you say.

 

Did a little more staging, trying to work out how to display the shields. Thoughts on having a bunch run along the centerline, and a few hung along the gunwales fore and aft of the oars? Apologies for the photo quality here, the idea is just to show the layout.

 

 

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

The shields aren't a bad idea since many who think "Viking" think that there should be shields hanging off the side.  Just at the bow and stern looks good.

 

As for the barrel of swords... artist license is a good thing.  Adds a bit of viewer interest.  All depends on how much time and effort you want to put into making a barrel of swords.

[Louie da fly]

Swords were highly valued (and expensive) personal items - each would been in its scabbard, carefully wrapped individually in (presumably) oilcloth, and probably in the personal possessions of the individual owners. Only a few high status warriors would have owned them. Axes (single and two-handed) would have been more common, with spears the most common of all. Though those wrapped spear shafts look good, they appear rather too thick? They wouldn't in real life been thicker than maybe an inch an a half or two inches. Otherwise they would be (a) too heavy and (b) too hard to get a good grip on. After all, they usually doubled as "javelins" in battle, so shouldn't be too heavy to throw. The shorter ones would be no less than 6 feet long (though personally I never liked using anything that short - it put you too much within reach of the opponents' swords and axes); the longer ones more like 9 feet.

 

Everything else looks absolutely brilliant. I'm very impressed. The barrels, the open "scuttlebutt", the chests - all add verisimitude to the presentation. Regarding the (unspecific) oilcloth bundles, I think they look best with the rope around them.

 

The shields are a problem. Stacked like that on the deck they'd slide over each other and be all over the ship, the moment you got into the ocean swell. There's just no information available on how they were stored if not at the sides of the ship. Maybe tie them down with a net? Or perhaps store them under the oar-benches - amidships (so they didn't get in the way of the oarsmen) ?

 

 

[Balclutha75]

Your ship is really a beauty, cathead - not just"museum quality" like it says on the box of my Amati kit, but actually museum-worthy.

 

Also thanks for the picture of your jig for the oars. I was wondering how I was going to paint mine and that was the answer I didn't know I was looking for.

[Cathead]

Steven,

 

Swords: Yeah, I know they were high-value. Especially any Ulfberts. The barrel idea was artistic license to have a chance to display some. I knew I couldn't justify putting a bunch of axes in a barrel given the physical logistics of it! But you're convincing me it's just not plausible enough even in that context. I think I'll cover the barrel with "oilcloth" since  they wouldn't want seawater slopping in no matter what it contained.

 

Spears: Those were the thinnest dowels I had on hand and I was hoping they would blend in to the overall presentation. Though it just occurred to me I could try rounding some toothpicks. 

 

Axes: I know these were more common than swords but haven't figured out a good way to make some or display them. Seems wrong to just have them lying around the deck. Viking safety regulators would issue a citation for sure.

 

Shields: My justification for the "turtling" layout was that they were lashed to the thwarts from the underside, so they wouldn't be sliding around. I'm having a devil of a time figuring out what would make sense operationally, since as you observe, shields just don't stack and they have to be accessible but not in the way. And I want to have a bunch visible since I put all that work into making them. What do you think of the few lashed to the side fore and aft?

 

Mark,

 

Shields hanging from the sides really did happen, since some vessels have been found with shield racks built on. The question is really whether it's acceptable to decide that this ship only did that fore and aft of the oars. Various mistakes in construction mean that I can't hang shields between the oars like otherwise might have been done.

 

Balclutha75,

 

I can't accept the museum-quality complement because I know the workmanship level isn't there. It definitely looks good in photos, but any in-person examination would find lots of ways this isn't anywhere close to that level. And I've made various compromises between authenticity and practicality that wouldn't stand up to a real museum examination. But I appreciate the sentiment, as I am pleased with how it's coming together visually.

 

On the oar jig, two notes: It will create a slight paint boundary where the handles go into the jib, because you can't paint all the way down in one go. This is one reason I went with the "rubbed" handle look, because it hides that issue! Also, be careful not to apply to much paint/stain, because if it runs down the handle at all, it can pool where the oar meets the jig and create an unsightly blemish that can't be fully gotten rid of. I have a couple oars where I made this mistake and will be careful to display that spot facing downward.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Cathead

[bolin]

I would suggest not to stack anything in the middle on top of the thwarts. The area around the mast needs to be free when handling the sail, and its quite dangerous to have something that you could stumble on when doing so. If you are not readying for a immediate fight, the shields could probably be stored below the deck. Food and other necessities stored in water tight barrels under the deck would be likely, as would having the midships area under the thwarts filled with packets in oil cloth as you have proposed.

[Cathead]

Bolin, I agree, there's no way they would have been stored like that during actual sailing operation. I'm just really struggling to find the balance between artistic display of relevant details and an operationally accurate model. Again, just the fact that I'm displaying it with oars out and sail rigged blows operational accuracy right out of the water, so the question is how much further do I go?

[Louie da fly]

I wouldn't be putting the shields under the floorboards (apart from the fact that they'd be invisible) - water in the bilges would waterlog the shields, making them too heavy to wield, make the handles slippery, and cause the iron shield bosses to rust.

 

That doesn't solve what to do with them, though. My own opinion is that they should be stored amidships, on the floorboards, but under the benches. That would leave space available for the oarsmen to row, and crew could stand on the benches to deal with the sails. Yes, there are tripping hazards if you do that, but sailors have dealt with much worse conditions at sea.

 

Just my two cents worth (even if we no longer have two-cent pieces in Oz).

 

Steven

Edited June 16, 2021 by Louie da fly

[Cathead]

More detailing updates. I played around with Steven's suggestion of stacking shields under the thwarts/benches and couldn't make it work. The shields are too wide to fit easily and I knocked out a number of the delicate little stanchions supporting the benches. So here's my latest idea: stack some shields in groups of twos vertically between each bench (corresponding to a rower on each side), at least where the mast foot doesn't get in the way:

 

 

 

These are loosely placed for demonstration. If I did this for real, I'd glue the pairs together, then glue them to the bench. Then I'd simulate some kind of basic rope lashing holding them in place. I think I like this approach as it lets both sides of the shields be seen, makes them reasonably accessible, and at least makes some functional sense. The rest of the shields I can tuck into corners at bow and stern or maybe hang from the gunwales as suggested above. I'm going to sleep on it before doing anything permanent.

 

I made a cloth cover for the open barrel, lashing it one with some fine line:

 

 

I think it's good enough for display on the model. Another barrel is underway so I can place one on each side of the mast footing.

 

I made two more bundles of "spears", this time using toothpicks as the shafts. I sanded these down a bit smaller, glued them in bundles around a central dowel, and wrapped them in cloth:

 

 

 

The newer ones are at left. I like these a bit better, though I'll use both sets, piling them together. Their length matches the spear held by one of my figurines. The handles are probably still a bit thick, but I think it's close enough for artistic representation.

 

In this approach, the spears and most of the cargo will set centrally surrounding the mast foot. I think this will work out pretty well.

[allanyed]

Viking vessels never held an interest to me until lately, having become engrossed in the Viking TV series (in spite of the gratuitous battles.)   Well done Floki (Gustaf Skarsgard)   

Allan

[Cathead]

Allan, if you want to get more deeply engrossed, try The Last Kingdom on Netflix, or even better, the series of historical novels it's based on. The books are a fairly accurate account of the Anglo/Norse era of Britain around the time of Alfred the Great, and the TV show does a decent job (it's far more accurate than Vikings), especially the first two seasons when it was British-made. Once Netflix took over, seasons 3 and 4 became more gratuitously American and the Viking characters became more shallow, but it's still entertaining and at its worst is as good as the better parts of Vikings. Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

Glad you're interested now! I certainly don't want this to be my last such vessel, I've learned so much that I want to apply from the beginning on a future build.

[Ian_Grant]

Not to interject here with nonsense (I hope), but do we "know" Viking shields had bosses?  I thought bosses were originally a central metal part with a "knob" on the inside as a hand hold, until some genius thought of strapping shields to forearms to make use of shoulder and upper arm muscles instead of straining just the wrist? I stand ready to be refuted.....😉

 

Love your model, Cathead!

[Louie da fly]

Cathead, I think what you've worked out is perhaps the very best possible arrangement, given the constraints you're working with. The stacking of the shields and the idea of "roping them in place" works very well. You can see the shields (otherwise all that work painting them would have gone to waste) but they get in the way as little as possible; it's definitely a practical way of arranging them without obstructing the working of the ship. I think you've got it!

 

The bundles of spears look quite a bit better, as well.

 

What particularly impresses me about this build is the added details - chests, barrels, shields, spears etc - that add so much realism to the look of the thing. One feels one could step on board and sail off across the Atlantic.

 

I agree about "Vikings". I watched the first episode and was so disgusted by it that I never looked at it again. Haven't seen the other show so I can't comment on it.

 

28 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

Not to interject here with nonsense (I hope), but do we "know" Viking shields had bosses?  I thought bosses were originally a central metal part with a "knob" on the inside as a hand hold, until some genius thought of strapping shields to forearms to make use of shoulder and upper arm muscles instead of straining just the wrist? I stand ready to be refuted.....😉

 

Ian, yes we do know that Viking shields had bosses. Just about every Viking shield find (and the Gokstad ship had shields all along both sides) has a boss - the only ones I know of that don't have a hole where the boss should be. And there have been many bosses found without the shield board, which has presumably rotted away. Also contemporary art shows round shields with bosses, both in a Viking context (rare), but also their contemporaries, the Franks and English had very similar shields - always with bosses.

 

The boss was a hollow iron bowl, nailed or rivetted to the shield board over a hole on the centre into which the hand fitted. There was a handle across the hole for the hand to grip. Contemporary art shows the shields being held this way, not with arm straps. You can see diagrams of the way this worked at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html  This is probably the best exposition for the layman of the state of knowledge regarding Viking shields. Peter and Christobel are friends of mine and have been re-enactors since about 1986. They are very hot on authenticity and they have put a tremendous amount of research into all kinds of aspects of Viking life - their re-enactment gear is amazing.

 

Steven

[allanyed]

I read Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth series including the last one The Evening and the Morning which was a prequel to the series and covered Wessex, North Umbria, and Mercia so this period of time is intriguing to me.   I did watch The Last Kingdom and enjoyed it thoroughly but will download Cornwell's books and give the books a try as well.   I do appreciate and thank you for your guidance "Floki"

Allan

 

[Cathead]

I've read that too. I found it entertaining but pretty loose with the accuracy while being kinda boilerplate (all Follett's novels follow the same basic template and get predictable after a while for me). Evening and the Morning basically felt like every one of his cathedral books with a couple words changed to make it sound like a different era. Bernard Cornwell is a far better writer and takes far more care to get his facts and cultures right. You'll find that the books take far more time to give a balanced portrayal of Norse/Danish culture than does the show, which mostly treats them as barbarian invaders and puts all its focus on the proto-English.

 

I don't know if you meant download ebook or audiobook, but the audiobooks for Last Kingdom are quite good. The first few books especially have a fantastic narrator who understands how to use accents.

[Cathead]

OK, for better or worse, here's the hull with its final detailing arrangements. These are all glued in and no going back. Apologies for the crappy photos, I hurt my knee this morning (nothing permanent, just very stiff) and didn't feel like carrying the model outside for better light with the increased stumbling hazard. You'll get proper photos when it's fully done. This is just to show you what I did.

 

Bow: Paired shields lashed between the thwarts as far back as the mast foot, with three shields lashed to the outer hull.

 

 

A couple chests in the bow and another angle of the shields:

 

 

Amidships cargo: Bundles and chests before the mast, barrels around the mast, spear bundles aft:

 

 

 

Stern: More shield pairs lashed between the thwarts aft of the mast foot, two more shields on the hull on either side along with a couple stashed in the very stern, and more chests:

 

 

 

And an overhead view of the whole thing:

 

 

Astute eyes will notice that this is only 40 shields for the 60 rowers, but I'm stopping there. Partly laziness in just not wanting to make more shields, but more that I don't see a clear place to store/display any more without the hull starting to look crowded. Maybe it was crowded in real life, but I don't want the model to look too busy.

 

I'm pretty pleased with this overall. It's enough detail to bring the hull to life without really feeling cluttered. Next step is to tighten the standing rigging and install the sail & yard. Actually getting pretty close now since I pre-made that whole assembly.

 

Looks like I'm not quite going to finish by the one-year anniversary (July 5), but I do intend to finish in time to enter this in the NRG's online contest (deadline August 2).

 

Thanks for sticking with me!

 

[Louie da fly]

That arrangement looks very workable, Cathead, and increases the "genuine" look of the model. Well done!

 

Steven

[End Of The Line]

Wow!  The longship is looking great and your fresh approach to displaying the shields really elevates things.  The added detail of the barrels and bundles contributes to an interesting snapshot in time. 

[Freezing Parrot]

To my eye, that's the nicest version of a Viking longship I've seen. Not that I know how they were originally fitted out, but your approach abd detail makes it very realistic. Oh, and those other 20 guys without shields? Don't worry about them. They're either the captain's in-laws, expendable decoys, or the guys who were amazingly good at dodgeball in school.

[Cathead]

Finished the rigging, which wasn't overly complicated. I just followed the kit's instructions. There's probably a more complex and accurate way to do it, and I temporarily studied some photos of the reproduction, but had a really hard time following the lines. What's shown here at least makes basic operational sense to me. Note the beitass holding the windward corner of the sail (the pole wedged into the leeward hull and extending up to the sail). Balaclutha75's drakkar log has some good discussion and imagery of how this might have functioned, especially the lovely National Geographic artwork linked in this post.

 

That image also shows a few shields lashed along the bow gunwale, forward of the oars, just like I decided to do. Don't know if that's coincidental or if I subconsciously remembered that when working out my shield arrangement. It also shows shields stashed below the deck,  which I can always used as an excuse for my missing 20 shields, even though I dismissed that as an overall  solution earlier.

 

Nothing is glued in yet (hence the clamps in the photos below), so I'm curious if anyone has specific arguments for how/why I should change anything (within reason).

 

You'll also notice that I installed my figureheads. I realize these are still somewhat controversial as literary and archeological sources don't line up. But as someone who loves the Icelandic sagas and other literature from the period, I'm fine with hinting at that style of ship-building. Artist's license.

 

 

 

 

Looks like I got the focus a bit off on this last one, but don't feel like retaking it as the ship is already back inside. It gets the point across regarding rigging setup.

 

 

Once I'm comfortable with the rigging, all I have to do is add the oars back in and I'm done. Then it's time for some proper photography.

 

Please let me know what you think of this rigging setup (especially if you think any changes should be made), so I can move toward completion! Thanks so much.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Cathead

[Louie da fly]

It all looks good to me, and though the figurehead is fairly simple, it seems to me that it's well within the "window" of Viking decorative styles and known "figureheads" (and let's face it, no actual figureheads have ever been found), as discussed earlier in this thread.

 

Steven

Edited July 12, 2021 by Louie da fly

[mtaylor]

4 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

It all looks good to me, and though the figurehead is fairly simple, it seems to me that it's well within the "window" of Viking decorative styles and known "figureheads" (and let's face it, no actual figureheads have ever been found), as discussed earlier in this thread.

 

Steven

Just speculation here...  If the figurehead was the "spirit" of the ship (the guide, etc.) would have been possible that these were removed before any of the ships were buried?   Possibly burned, reused, or similar?  Where's that Wayback Machine?  We need a road...err.. time trip.

[Cathead]

Mark, I believe the problem is that known hulls show no signs of ever having had figureheads, removable or otherwise (Steven can correct me if I'm wrong). If there was a clear socket for one, or a clearly hacked-off stempost, we might at least confirm that we were used. But as I understand it they're only known at all from literature and later artistic renderings.

[mbp521]

Eric,

 

In my opinion she looks great. I think the figureheads add a nice touch (authentic or not). Your build pretty my represents what I have always envisioned Viking ships looking like. 
 

I am with you on the the deck crowding. This was a subject that I wrestled with on my last build. Where to draw the line at too much. I think you have just the right amount to get the point across of what these people traveled with without the deck looking too cluttered. 
 

I have been toying with the idea of entering my Chaperon in the NRG photo contest, just not sure if my photography skills are there yet. Not to mention our farm projects have really eaten up my time as of lately. 
 

Really looking forward to seeing the final rigging and it’s in place. I know you’ve had your struggles with this build, but you have definitely overcome them and produced a great looking build. 
 

-Brian

[Cathead]

Enter! At worst it's a learning experience. I won silver with Arabia in the Wisconsin contest despite my photos being not all that great (wrinkled sheet behind the model and everything).