Lady Nelson by KirbysLunchBox - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 - First Ship build

[KirbysLunchBox]

I have been watching you guys build for awhile now and thanks to Santa I have my first kit to give this a try. I asked for the Lady Nelson after watching a stop motion film by Tom Grigat building the same kit.  

  I figured if he could stop motion film the build, surely I can fumble through it myself. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

The basic start up...

I found that bulkhead 2 and 3 were labeled wrong. Everything fit together really well. I had a little bit of trouble getting the stern bulkhead to sit straight, but I think it is close enough. Now I just have to wait for glue to dry. -1:39 

Edited December 30, 2020 by KirbysLunchBox

[ccoyle]

Cutters are great first models. There are plenty of finished build logs for this and other cutter kits (e.g. Sherbourne, Alert); be sure to look to those to see how other modelers have accomplished the various tasks that constitute a build.

 

Cheers!

[KirbysLunchBox]

I plan to go back and review Dubz Sherbourne, Chucks Cheerful, and Blue Ensign’s Alert. No way I will reproduce that level of quality, but gotta start somewhere!  Going to place links to those builds below so I can find them easier if that is ok. 
 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by KirbysLunchBox

[James H]

Lady Nelson is a perfect model to build when starting out. Only one mast and limited ratlines to tie.

[KirbysLunchBox]

Day 2

I started out by making a bending board for the plywood bulwarks and also let them start soaking while I tried to shape the bulkheads.

 I am sure it is cheating, but I used a Dremel for the majority of the bulkhead shaping. Not entirely sure what I was supposed to do at the stern, so hopefully I didn’t mess it up. 

I noticed that two of the bulkheads are curved where the plywood bulwark attaches while all the rest are flat. I decided to flatten them to match. Makes sense to me at least. 

I couldn’t find Dubz Sherbourne build, but Blue Ensign’s Alert seems very similar. I am not sure if I will attempt to simulate nails on the decking boards, but just in case, I marked my best guess at where beams would be. I thought for a short moment about mapping out the decking like BE did, but only marked the center board in the name of personal sanity. 

I glued on the false deck and keel and wait impatiently for glue to dry. 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by KirbysLunchBox

[KirbysLunchBox]

Haven’t had much time to work on this.  But hoping for a much more gooder year than last.  😉

 

I attached the counter sterns using the transom?? as a guide to align them. I also realized that my bending form for the bulwarks was a disaster. I didn’t realize how important it was for the nails to match the exact shape and angle of the actual ship. Oops!  Both bulwarks are soaking overnight for hopeful correction tomorrow.   

Edited January 2, 2021 by KirbysLunchBox

[drjeckl]

 

Kirby, my first build was also the LN.  I did a lot of researching  on this site before I got too far along.  There are two build logs that I highly recommend. 

 

The first is:

Vossie is a very experienced carpenter who sometimes goes off on way off tangents but I learned a lot about this hobby and how he built the LN from this guy.  Unfortunately, he fell off the map before completing the build.  But it's worth going through his entire log.

 

The other log is: 

Glenn is an experienced builder who got back into the hobby with the LN.  Same here: learned a lot about this hobby and how he built the LN from this guy too.  His log is shorter but very informative.

 

Good luck and welcome to MSW and the LN club.

 

John

 

 

[glbarlow]

Welcome to the forum and the Lady Nelson. As John mentioned I built the Lady Nelson after a long layoff from modeling. I’d encourage you to check out my log from the link John provided or from my signature line below. I wrote it on. A different, very quiet, forum then copy and pasted it after I came back here to MSW to stay.  I also posted photos in the galleria section of the finished model that might prove helpful. 
 

One thing you’ll see there is how I use the plans to trace the outline of the hull, cut a board from that, then use the board to shape the gun port patterns.  You’ll also see I struggled with the transom too and, among other things, where I elected to scratch build the bowsprit step because it was so out of scale preventing a good fit of the bowsprit.

 

Be sure to fair the hull properly before adding the first plank and add some balsa filler at the bow.  You do want all the bulkheads to be square as well.  The whole basis of the ship starts with the frame, obviously, you want that frame to be as near perfect as you can get it so take the time to get this seemingly boring part right.

 

I’ll follow your log and see if I can be of help from time to time. The LN is a great first model, it’s the same as any large kit, just less and small. The techniques you learn and use will serve you well.

 

Have fun!

Edited January 2, 2021 by glbarlow

[KirbysLunchBox]

Thank you both! I just started reading through those logs. They are going to be very helpful!

 

I know I am going to have some questions along the way. Probably a lot of questions and I appreciate any and all feedback!

[KirbysLunchBox]

Try number 2 on the plywood bulwarks and I immediately broke off one of the counter sterns and the top of the prow!

After waiting for repairs to dry, I tried again. This time I just let the ship bulkheads do the forming and held it all in place with binder clips. Great success!  I almost messed up and glued the bulwarks to the top of the bulkheads but caught myself at the last second. 
 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by KirbysLunchBox

[KirbysLunchBox]

I have realized two things... one even though I read somewhere that I didn’t need a rabbit on this ship, I probably should have tapered the area under the stern so that the second planking would be flush before I glued on the stern post and keel. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Not sure how I am going to fix that. 

And two, there appears to be a low spot on the bulwark. I was playing around with planking when I noticed it. I don’t like the way it looks, but I think it will smooth out once the second planing is on. 
 

[Wintergreen]

Kirby, great start!

Don't let all small mishaps dampen your spirit. I have my first build in plain sight just to remind about where I started. (Billings Wasa, heck of a subject for a first build...).

It is a constant learning curve and the good thing about wood is that you can glue back together (most of the times, otherwise just source a new piece).

About the bulwark, will there not be planking on the inside to cover the low spot?

 

Anyway, keep it up!

And I couldn't help but notice, is it you or has the fairy lost her wings?

[glbarlow]

The low spot may be problematic as your gun ports will then out uneven, my suggested method might have helped. I recommend you remove itshape it, and do it again.

 

You can bevel the garboard plank (one closest to the keel) to fit tight against the keel, You don’t need a rabit.  Be sure to also taper, cut the right angle, and bevel the leading edge at the bow.  Don’t put on the stern post until 2nd planking is son but sand and thin at the stern so both planking equal the width of the stern post.

it doesn’t look you faired the hull before putting on the patterns, that will make fairing harder.

 

I also broke that stem piece, more than once as I recall.  You’re painting it black eventually just ensure you have it straight and it will be fine. Rigging lines go through those holes so it has to be strong enough to support that. 

 

All of this is described in other logs, I always read every thing I can find about the next step in whatever log I can find, beats reading the fact. The instructions in the model are thin, you need all the help you can get.  That still applies to me and I’ve built 9 models.

Edited January 2, 2021 by glbarlow

[Wintergreen]

On 12/30/2020 at 11:36 PM, KirbysLunchBox said:

 I am sure it is cheating, but I used a Dremel for the majority of the bulkhead shaping.

Well Kirby, technically you can't be cheating since MSW is not a competition. 😉

It's something about "ends justifying the means", if it works - keep doing it.

[KirbysLunchBox]

Whelp. I glued the stern post on way before I realized I shouldn’t. I thought you could get PVA to soften with rubbing alcohol, but I was afraid to soak it too much with the MDF false keel. So it is still attached. I think I might be able to chisel out the space for the second planking. 
 

I did some fairing before I put the bulwarks on but I did do some more fairing after on the stern after.  Everything seems to be right. 
 

Speaking of that low spot in the bulwark, it’s on both sides and appears to be the shape of the laser cut. I went through some other build logs and I see the same thing. I need to get some tracing paper and try to lay the plans out on the side like you suggested.  I guess I could shift the gun port opening if necessary?

 

I spent a good 3 hours trying to figure out this planking witchcraft.  I measured stuff, made paper templates. Got out the calipers and a block plane. Tapered some planks, but something just doesn’t seem right. No actual forward progress was made. 
 

If I let a plank curve the way it wants too, it travels way up the bow...higher than the bottom edge of the bulwark.  Maybe this is why the wrong way bending technique is out there?  I think I am just going to try to get as smooth and clean a job as possible so I have a good base for the second planking. 
 

I did McGuiver a pair of planking benders using a needle nose plier, scrap wood, a nail and some electrical tape. 🤣

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by KirbysLunchBox

[KirbysLunchBox]

6 hours ago, Wintergreen said:

Kirby, great start!

Don't let all small mishaps dampen your spirit. I have my first build in plain sight just to remind about where I started. (Billings Wasa, heck of a subject for a first build...).

It is a constant learning curve and the good thing about wood is that you can glue back together (most of the times, otherwise just source a new piece).

About the bulwark, will there not be planking on the inside to cover the low spot?

 

Anyway, keep it up!

And I couldn't help but notice, is it you or has the fairy lost her wings?

Thank you for the inspiration!  Can’t believe you went straight for the Wasa!!  I almost bought the USF Constitution as my first kit. So glad I didn’t!  I do hope to scratch build one in 1:64 some day.  And for the wings... my daughter has since out grown that pair and they are destined for the memories box, but she hasn’t out grown all of her wings yet.  ☺️

[KirbysLunchBox]

Alright... gonna try this sideways bendy thing....

[drjeckl]

Here's the rhythm I get into when planking (after all the planing; bands, planks per band, taper at each BH per band):

1. Taper at least a pair of planks; one for port, one for starboard (I'm struggling a bit with two pair; we'll see)
2. Note that when installing a plank, the straight edge goes topside, against the tapered edge of the plank above it
3. Bevel the inside edge of the straight edge of the new plank and test fit as best you can against the above plank
4. Edge bend the new plank:
   1. Each end of the plank will be bent, at the bow end more extensively and just slightly at the stern
   2. Place the tapered edge against the form, with the side that will show, face down (i.e. the side you will glue to the hull will be the side you iron)
   3. Use the chart below to show how to bend, depending on starboard or port plank
      
   4. Follow Chuck's video on the actual process of bending the edge, here:
   5. Test fit after every couple of bends to see if you need any more bending
   6. Once it fits along the edge plank above, then using the "curling iron" to curve bend the plank to fit the form of the hull
5. Glue the plank to the hull.  I use CA.  Check the forums on other gluing techniques.

John

Edited January 3, 2021 by drjeckl

[KirbysLunchBox]

If planking is witchcraft, then edge bending is magic pixie dust. My test plank for edge building came out almost perfect. Now I just need to figure out how to do it consistently!

 

John,  thank you for the step by step! I had told myself that I wasn’t going to do the edge bending because I didn’t want to have to build something to do it, but after this test run, I don’t see any other way. 
 

 

[KirbysLunchBox]

After much more studying, measuring, testing, thinking, tossing, breaking, studying and cussing, I think I finally have a plan. 
 

My big concern with the edge bending was that I wanted to make a curve template for repeatability. In one of the many resources I have scrolled though, I can across an idea of using clear tape to figure out the 3D curve of the planks. So I tried it, and used a permanent marker to trace the edge of the bulwark and mark all of the bulkheads. 

I then transferred this to card stock to get my 2D curve.  It just so happened that it matched the accidental profile I bent into my original test strip. 

I used the card stock to make two forms, one for each side of the ship. 

I was really hoping to be able to dry bend the strips and use an iron to lock in the shape, but unfortunately, my planking stock is too wide and needs to be soaked to make the curve without breaking. 

The next challenge was figuring out the taper. I tried the mathematical way of dividing the shortest bulkhead at each end by the total number of planks, but it didn’t seem right. The taper was too extreme. I decided to use my  test plank to line off the hull. It will accept exactly 13 planks on bulkhead 5,  coming down 4 planks seemed to be a good start for my first section. I basically eyeballed the start and stop of the plank and made marks at the bow and stern.  I measured the distance and divided by 4 to get my tapered plank width. In this case it is 4.25mm at the bow and 4mm at the stern. 

I transferred bulkhead 5 and 6 lines to the planks and then numbered them, labeled P and S and put arrows pointing up, toward the untapered side. 

Hopefully I am not too far off track on my plan. The first set are soaking for bending tomorrow. This is going to take some time, since I currently can only edge bend one set at a time. 

[glbarlow]

I think my Lady Nelson log and I know my Cheerful log explains Chuck’s method for lining the hull for planking and bending planks to fit. Getting the taper and curves right is important and whatever plan you have needs to be adjusted as you go. I don’t think I’ve seen the method you’re using, I hope it works out well

[KirbysLunchBox]

I have read so many things I can’t keep straight what I found where. It looks like I got the lining idea from you and Chuck, but I executed a little differently and the tape came from Chuck for spilling a plank, but I am also using in a different fashion.  Fingers crossed this works. I know I don’t have to go to this much trouble for the first planking, but I want to use it as an opportunity to learn for the second. 

[KirbysLunchBox]

I have to say, I don’t know how anybody ever survived building one of these models in the days before the internet. Must have been some really good books out there. 

[VTHokiEE]

3 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

I know I don’t have to go to this much trouble for the first planking, but I want to use it as an opportunity to learn for the second. 

This (IMO) is the right idea, it’s a great opportunity to practice where mistakes won’t be seen. My first planking started off as a nightmare but I learned a whole lot. Keep up the good work!

[glbarlow]

22 hours ago, KirbysLunchBox said:

this much trouble for the first planking

It is both good practice and good form - Whatever the first planking is what the second planking will be at least in terms of shape.

[KirbysLunchBox]

There have been some wins and fails with my planking attempt. 
 

Wins:

1.  Using clear tape to figure out the shape of the bending form worked perfectly. 
2.  I only have to soak the planks 10ish minutes to get them to bend around the form.

3.  Turns out I can use the iron to lock in the shape as long as I let the plank cool before releasing it. 
4.  The first plank turned out as good as I think I could make it. 
5.  I got practice removing planks.
6.  I think I know which side is port now. 

 

Fails:

1.  Due to the first 4 wins mentioned above I excitedly proceeded to work through all of my prepared planks without paying close attention to what I was doing.

2.  Even though the bending form worked perfectly, my tapering didn’t. 
3.  I failed to realize that the planks slowly shifted to stern as I added them until I was about to glue on the 4th plank. 

You can see how the bulkhead lines are staggered and there is an awful  dimple in the curve. 

The rest of the views looked good though I think.

I have since removed the 3rd plank and trimmed the 2nd one to fix the curve. I would have preferred to start all over but I don’t have enough plank strips left.  Now that I have learned some more I need to adjust my technique and press on. 

[glbarlow]

You only nee 3 on the wins to bend planks, but it’s all about learning by doing. No soaking needed 
 

I don’t prepare the next plank until the prior one is installed. Can’t get ahead of yourself. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by glbarlow

[KirbysLunchBox]

I am definitely going one plank at a time now!

 

I tried tick marking the bulkheads using a planking fan, but counted lines instead of spaces so I made all the marks in the wrong places. 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

I decided to do the bottom 2 planks instead. Lots of shaping to get these to fit but I think the results are acceptable. I did not taper these planks though. Going to redo the tick marks For the remaining planks using the planking fan the right way now that the top 2 and bottom 2 planks are on.
 

[KirbysLunchBox]

Sorry. I haven’t had much progress. We spent the weekend with my parents and I took a few pics of my work bench from my child hood. Not much has changed in 20ish years. I built a lot of things in this space.