Duchess of Kingston 1778 by desalgu - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Royal Yacht

[desalgu]

I've got the upper bulwarks painted blue and red.  Most of this looks like it will be covered up with decorations.  I find it interesting how the decorations are built up in layers.  

[DelF]

That paintwork looks really neat and sharp David. What masking tape do you use?

 

8 hours ago, desalgu said:

I'm hoping it's not glued down too tightly and I can carefully cut it out.

Your problem might be that the cut-out in the maple deck doesn't line up with the corresponding hole in the sub-deck. That's certainly the case in my kit, but the manual says this has been corrected in later versions so you may be OK. If not, I suspect it would be easier to pin the wheel support in place rather than trying to cut a hole in the sub-deck. That's what I usually do on kits from other manufacturers where items just sit on the deck. Of course you would have to cut off the part of the support that would otherwise project through the deck, but if you pin and glue it the result should be strong enough. 

 

As an aside, one of the things that first impressed me about the accuracy and quality of Chris Watton's designs was the way that items like bitts and pumps were secured on Speedy. The legs of these items were made extra long so that they passed through the upper deck then located in cut-outs in the lower deck. In each case everything aligned perfectly. 

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Derek

[BobG]

Looks beautiful, David! Did you coat the hull with anything after you finished the planking? It looks great.

[desalgu]

Hi Derek,  I was able to easily cut out the hole in the deck.  It aligned with the hole in the subdeck, so I just needed to lightly cut thru the deck laser cutting.  I'm glad I didn't have to trim or cut the plywood subdeck.  I just didn't realize the little rectangle on the deck was a laser cut instead of laser etching.  If I'd just looked at the manual or plans a little closer, I would have seen this, but probably got going too quickly and got careless.  This is common problem I have!   It now looks the way it's supposed to.  I really appreciate it that you brought this to my attention!

 

I agree with the design of this kit, that's it's excellent.  The deck cutouts will make it easy to locate deck fixtures and make the joints strong enough so no need to pin them.  And there are holes to use pins for location items.  Offhand the only real trouble I've had is with the plywood bulwarks, but that was from my inexperience.  It's good to fight thru those difficulties and learn for the next time.  I'm amazed at how Chris made all the metal and laser etchings for decorations.  He's got way more patience than I have!

 

5 hours ago, BobG said:

Looks beautiful, David! Did you coat the hull with anything after you finished the planking? It looks great.

 

Hi Bob, After I finished planking, I put a very light stain on (Minwax golden pecan) and then two coats of wipe-on polyurethane sanding in between, and a little steel wool afterward.  I did some tests and it was debatable whether to include the stain or only use the wipe-on poly.  There was very little difference between the two, but I felt like the stain brought out the grain slightly more.

 

I'm using vallejo acrylic paints for colors.  They go on fine over the oil based wipe-on poly, but I don't know about vice versa, so I'm going to do a test.  I also tested a couple of different vallejo gold paints, and much prefer the "model color" gold versus the "model air" gold. 

[BobG]

3 hours ago, desalgu said:

 They go on fine over the oil based wipe-on poly, but I don't know about vice versa, so I'm going to do a test.

 

Please let us know the results of your test, David. 

 

I too have been happy with Vallejo paints both their model paints and their model air paints. The model air paints can be brushed just fine also. 

[DelF]

Hi David, happy I was able to help on the cut-out.

 

Can you tell me what tape you use to get such a neat edge? Apologies if you've already said and I've missed it.

 

Derek

[desalgu]

52 minutes ago, DelF said:

Hi David, happy I was able to help on the cut-out.

 

Can you tell me what tape you use to get such a neat edge? Apologies if you've already said and I've missed it.

 

Derek

I used tamiya yellow tape.  I've used it for years, mostly on model airplanes.  It's expensive, but you don't use a lot of it.  You have to use piece of wood with flat end or something similar (on Duchess I used end of small standard screwdriver) to flatten the tape edge where you're going to paint.  You just run it along the edge of the tape, pressing a little bit.  On some models I haven't been able to do that because surface was too fragile, and then paint bleeds thru a little. 

[desalgu]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:38 PM, BobG said:

 

Please let us know the results of your test, David. 

 

I too have been happy with Vallejo paints both their model paints and their model air paints. The model air paints can be brushed just fine also. 

Hi Bob,

 

I finally finished test using oil based wipe-on poly over Vallejo acrylic paint and it worked fine.  I painted some scrap pear wood with flat white, and then added stripes of colors.  Colors in photo from left to right are khaki (looks closer to olive drab than what I'd call khaki), flat earth (dark brown), copper, model-air gold, model-color gold, royal blue, and flat red.   Except for gold, all are "Model colors".  I brushed on the Vallejo paint and didn't bother to thin it a little or sand between the 2 coats, so you can see brush strokes.  I usually thin Vallejo model color paints a little even when brushing, and lightly sand between coats.

 

I let Vallejo paints dry overnight and then wiped on a coat of poly.  I wiped both directions to see if it smeared the colors and it didn't.  It worked great.  I put on a 2nd coat and no problems. 

 

The model-air gold and model-color gold are different shades and it has nothing to do with one being thinned for air brushing.  The photo doesn't capture the gold colors very well.  The model-air gold looks brighter in photo than for real, and the model-color gold doesn't look as yellow as in the photo.  If you want more of a muted gold color or darker gold color, that's model-air gold.  If you want a brighter gold or more yellow gold, that's model-color gold.  Lighting affects how the two gold paints look.  In photo I have direct overhead light, so both look brighter than they would on the side of a hull.  If I was choosing gold based on this photo, I'd choose model-air gold.  But in reality they look quite a bit different.

 

Usually I'd prefer the muted gold color, but I think the Duchess wanted to be noticed when she sailed into port, so I think I'll use the brighter gold on my model.  I bet the crew was out polishing all the gold before entering a harbor.

 

[BobG]

2 hours ago, desalgu said:

 

I finally finished test using oil based wipe-on poly over Vallejo acrylic paint and it worked fine.

 

Excellent test and information, David! Thanks so much.

[Thukydides]

Did you prime before painting? I ask because in the plastic model world you always need to prime first or the paint will come off over time. Not sure if this is true on wood.

 

If you are looking for the absolute best acrylic metallics then that would be Vallejo metal colour. They are just lovely. If you are willing to use alcohol based paint then you could also look into  Vallejo liquid gold. It is a bit more of a pain to use, but looks really nice, and there are a whole bunch of shades of gold to pick from.

[desalgu]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:49 PM, Thukydides said:

Did you prime before painting? I ask because in the plastic model world you always need to prime first or the paint will come off over time. Not sure if this is true on wood.

 

If you are looking for the absolute best acrylic metallics then that would be Vallejo metal colour. They are just lovely. If you are willing to use alcohol based paint then you could also look into  Vallejo liquid gold. It is a bit more of a pain to use, but looks really nice, and there are a whole bunch of shades of gold to pick from.

 

I didn't prime first, I just painted directly on wood.  Depending on color and how much I thin, it takes 2-4 coats.  I always have to sand fuzz off first coat, and sometimes after 2nd coat.  I prefer painting with it fairly thin, but if too thin it drips or accumulates on edges.  I have airbrush, but for small things like this, I use brush. 

 

I've noticed everyone puts coat of primer on PE parts, so I plan to do the same when the time comes.  I have little experience working with PE parts. 

 

Thanks for suggestion about Vallejo metal colours and liquid gold.  I've seen those listed, but didn't know the differences.  I think I'll get some and try it.  If I need to paint something metallic, I've found it's best to put on a white undercoat first, and then the metallic paint over that.  

 

I keep forgetting to thank everyone for the "likes"!  

[glbarlow]

No need to prime wood, you should though prime PE. 

[desalgu]

It's been a while, I took a break from building ship.  Weather has been too nice, so wanted to take advantage and do a few things outside.

 

I had some problems putting on the hull decorative wood pieces.  I found it awkward handling them because they run the length of the hull, all in one piece and are rather fragile.  I think the problem I had getting them to fit was because I didn't get the two plywood bulwarks pieces placed exactly right.  Pretty sure I got one side a little higher or lower than the other side.  Anyhow they are slightly different.

[desalgu]

When I put the hull decorative pieces on, I could get them aligned with bulwarks ok in some places, but not all.  One side fit pretty good, but the other didn't.  It was off about 1/32" at the stern windows.  I had a choice, and could have gotten it perfect at the stern windows, but not near the bow.  But I chose to have it aligned good most of the way, and accept the problem at the aft end.  

 

Here's photo of aft windows on the side that was off a little, and you can see the window cutouts in the decorative piece (the black piece) don't quite match the cutouts in the hull. 

[desalgu]

The other side was much better.

[desalgu]

I didn't consider this to be too much of a problem, and trimmed the inside of the windows and gun ports slightly to match the cutouts in the decorative pieces.    In these closeups, looks like I need a little more touchup paint.

[desalgu]

There's some scrollwork in the middle of the hull where bulwarks transition in height.  One side the decorative piece was low compared to the hull, and the other side was high.  It was only 1/64 or maybe slightly more, but it showed.  So I filed bulwarks down on one side to match the decorative scrollwork, and used some filler to raise the bulwarks on the other side to match (along with some gentle filing and sanding).  

[desalgu]

Some touchup paint, and although not perfect, it looks a lot better.  

[desalgu]

Forgot to mention one other problem I had with the decorative pieces, and this seems to be a common one.  There are small "tabs" or decorations hanging below the aft windows.  These are very small and fragile.  Of course a couple broke off when soaking the pieces to do the bow curve.  I probably should have only soaked the bow part, but of course, soaked the entire piece.  I don't recall touching these, but 2 of them broke off.  Fortunately I saw what happened, retrieved them, and glued them back on (after I glued the decorative piece to the hull).  I didn't consider this to be a problem, just typical of building any model.

 

But then, with the decorative pieces "glued" to the hull, apparently the little pieces hanging below the windows were not glued securely to the hull.  I know when gluing,  I felt like I didn't have enough working time with the glue for such a long piece.  By the time I got glue all over it, I had already used up much of the working time.  Anyhow, when I was done, it all appeared to be glued on ok.

 

However, while handling the hull to fix some of the other problems, I knocked off one of the little tabs.  I didn't discover it until well after it happened, so there was no chance to recover the tiny piece.  I ended up making one from scrap pear (an extra piece of planking). This was a real challenge because the piece is so small.  I don't recall ever shaping anything this small before.  It was very hard to hold to file or sand (I was handholding).  I managed, but my piece is slightly larger than the original, and I had to give up making it any smaller.  The size difference shows up in the closeup photo, but it's not very noticeable when viewed from about a foot away.  

 

It was quite an experience.  I have no idea how people carve scrollwork and other tiny parts.  Holding them in place to work on them is a real problem, besides being so tiny it's hard to see what you're doing.

[Rustyj]

Nice work and recovery. Test fit the PE over the window. I believe it will cover up the replacement nicely.

[DelF]

Well done. It’s worth taking care to get everything right at this stage.
 

I managed to break off all but one of those tiny pieces. I’m saving them until I fit the decoration as the PE surrounding the windows will cover them. 
 

One tip if you have to make tiny parts is to shape them in to the end of a longer piece of wood. This gives you something to hold until you’re happy with the shape, then just cut it off. 
 

Derek

[yvesvidal]

That Vallejo Royal Blue color is stunning. Beautiful hull.

 

Yves

[Gregory]

14 hours ago, desalgu said:

When I put the hull decorative pieces on, I could get them aligned with bulwarks ok in some places, but not all.

Excuse me if I am being presumptuous about what may be doable with this kit, particularly after the fact, but would it have been possible to cut those pieces in one or more places and removed a little material?

[desalgu]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:08 AM, DelF said:

 

One tip if you have to make tiny parts is to shape them in to the end of a longer piece of wood. This gives you something to hold until you’re happy with the shape, then just cut it off. 
 

Derek

I should have thought of this technique!  It dawned on me a couple of days afterward that I could have done just what you suggested and it would have been easier.  Now the problem will be remembering it the next time I need to do something similar!  

 

On 12/2/2021 at 8:29 AM, Gregory said:

Excuse me if I am being presumptuous about what may be doable with this kit, particularly after the fact, but would it have been possible to cut those pieces in one or more places and removed a little material?

 

I didn't think of that, but that might have worked.  I did consider cutting the long decorative piece roughly in half to make it easier to glue, but thought the joint might show.  I'm inexperienced with ships, so I'm hesitant to make tweaks to the parts.

 

I really appreciate everyone following along and giving suggestions.  My first build was so long ago, it doesn't really count.  So this is only my 2nd go at building a model ship, and I've got so much to learn.  All the comments and the other build logs keep me going!

 

[desalgu]

I had a little bit of trouble gluing wales on hull.  I had put a couple coats of wipe-on poly on hull, so I wasn't gluing to bare wood.  I had used steel wool on hull to dull the wipe-on poly a little more  and thought that would be enough for titebond to stick.  It kind of stuck, but not around bow area.  I had soaked and formed the wales to the hull shape, and painted them black afterward.  I suspect some of the shape was lost by painting couple of coats and lightly sanding.  Anyhow, they fit reasonable well, but needed tape to hold in place.  And I guess I didn't get in a little twist near the bow when forming them.  There was some stress there, and after glue dried the wales popped off pretty easily around the bow.  I used CA the 2nd time and it worked fine.  My hesitation to use it the 1st time was lack of working time.  Even the CA medium doesn't have that much working time, and I felt like I needed 2-3 min to get wales located.  Plus water based glues I can wipe up excess with damp towel.  I finally got them glued on ok, but once again what I thought would be "easy" wasn't.  You'd think by now, I'd have learned to not expect anything to be easy.  But I'm a slow learner, ha!

 

The upper wales fit into notch in the stern decoration, and I used plans to locate the bow position.  Then I followed a planking line in between. On the lower wales I used small spacers cut from scrap to make the lower one parallel to the upper one. 

 

[desalgu]

One of the next steps is to glue on a stern piece with window cutouts.  It curves slightly to follow the curvature in the aft deck planking and stern formers.  But in my case, it didn't fit very good.  The hull and bulwarks stuck out too far and needed to be trimmed.  This was no problem, but I had to trim about 1/16" or so and it ate into the last part of the hull decoration, a little black strip on the end of the bulwarks. so I added little strips to the front of the part of the decoration I'd trimmed off, so it would be about the same width as it originally was.  A little filler and black paint, and it looks about like it did before trimming.  And now the stern piece will fit much better.

 

I didn't take any photo's while trimming and sanding, but here's what it looks like now.

[DelF]

Sterns always seem to be tricky to get right. Yours is looking fine so far - just make sure you don't make the same mistake as me when you come to fit the stern fascia. I soaked the fascia in hot water to bend it to shape and let it dry, after which it seemed to fit fine. It was only when I tried to fit the photo-etch decoration to it that I found it had expanded and was 3mm too wide - more than enough to make it unrecoverable at this scale. See here for how I got out of it, and how I used hot air bending to avoid the same mistake.

 

Sorry if this is teaching Granny to suck eggs!

 

Derek

[desalgu]

12 hours ago, DelF said:

Sterns always seem to be tricky to get right. Yours is looking fine so far - just make sure you don't make the same mistake as me when you come to fit the stern fascia. I soaked the fascia in hot water to bend it to shape and let it dry, after which it seemed to fit fine. It was only when I tried to fit the photo-etch decoration to it that I found it had expanded and was 3mm too wide - more than enough to make it unrecoverable at this scale. See here for how I got out of it, and how I used hot air bending to avoid the same mistake.

 

Sorry if this is teaching Granny to suck eggs!

 

Derek

I didn't get your message in time Derek, but I didn't soak it either, so I think I'm ok.  Appreciate letting me and others know though.   I  noticed grain on facia was in a direction that would make it easy to bend enough to fit on stern.  I glued and held it in place with tape, and it worked ok.  In my case, no need to heat or soak.  

 

Test fit one of the stern windows and it fit ok, but I need to clean up the red paint from the rabbits the windows sit in.  I globbed on too much red paint.  

 

 

[desalgu]

Here's a question for everyone that knows more about ships than a landlubber like me.  The stern facia and decorations stick out beyond the hull, on the model about 1/4".  Was this typical?  And is it just to make the stern decorations larger, so people notice it more when you sail into harbor and see how rich and famous you are?   It looks odd to me to have the stern facia sticking out away from the hull/bulwarks.

 

I cut out the decorative stern molding and did some cleanup with file.  I was rather nervous about dipping it in boiling water to bend it slightly to follow shape of stern facia, but it worked fine.  Being cautious, I only dipped it around 6-7 sec.  I figured if it wasn't flexible enough, I could dip it again.  It's a very shallow bend, so the short time worked, but 10 sec would have worked also.

 

I'm now starting to paint.  My brush is small, but I need a smaller one!!  I put blue on first in the low spots, the same blue I used on bulwarks & stern.  I'm using liquid gold, as shown in manual, and it's super thin out of the bottle.  It flows a bit too much for me, I have a bunch of tiny places to touchup.  I suspect this will be an iterative procedure, touchup blue, touchup gold, touchup blue, etc.  

 

[desalgu]

I glued in first PE parts, the stern windows.  Previously I had painted the inside structure in this area black, so it would be black looking thru windows.  The detail on the PE parts is very impressive.  It's my first experience with them and used CA glue.