TEV Wahine by Richard Dunn - Radio - scale 1:35 - 1965

[Richard Dunn]

So after some research and advice from pump people I have arrived at this arrangement, I have 2 trim ballast tanks in the bow and stern of about 8 Litres each (not sure yet) but they will fill via seacock in bottom of hull of 10mm diameter and are controlled by electric ball valves.

The inlets will be using the turbo alternator intakes in real ship as they have large enough openings and also grates over them to filter water and being within double bottom are nice and low down.


The pumps are to be used to empty the tanks only, I was going to get 4 pumps and pump water in but hey what's the point, a 10mm hose will fill 4 litres in a short enough period and with the seacock being 150mm underwater at start it will have enough pressure to fill quickly, even with no pressure really.

The pumps are pressure controlled so when the discharge seacock is opened it will activate the pump and pump out the tank.
So basically each tanks has 2 electric valves and one pump in its arrangement.

This is the valve at the shell.
https://www.baccarastore.com.au/1/2-1-BSP-UPVC-Electric-Actuated-Ball-Valve-2-Wires-with-MO-and-Visual-Indicator

And this is the pump.

http://www.seaflo.com/en-us/product/detail/601.html

 

Any  thoughts or warnings?

Edited April 28, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[yvesvidal]

Those pumps look very sharp. Their capacity of 1.2 gallons per minute is way greater than say, a windshield washer pump that I have used in the past for ballast tanks.

 

At this rate, it will take less than 3 minutes to empty your ballasts, and probably even less.

 

Yves

[Richard Dunn]

I had not worked it out yet, I have worked out the following though
total weight 195kgs

Model weight 60-70kgs

Batteries 28.5kgs x 2 = 57kgs

Tank weight  over2 tanks 36.5 kgs in trim

Free ballast lead ingots 32 kgs

The Bow tank is a massive 25.6 L/kgs and is an entire section between bulkheads, however the stern trim tank is only 11L as it is centreline based and has to fit between the prop shafts, I cant see any way of making it bigger and as I write this I realise I can make it bigger by stepping the tank out over the shafts once above them as long as tank can be removed if needed to get to shafts.

Guys how far from motors is ok to avoid interference for the RC gear and speed controllers?
Motors are in own compartment defined by Bulkheads up to waterline.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[mtaylor]

I have no idea about your questions but a question for you and others... about motor interference.  Would lining the motor compartment with say aluminum foil and having a small "finger" through the hull and into the water ground the static?   You'd probably need as capacitor on the power feed I'd think.  Or maybe just the capacitor would do the trick and filter out the static.

[Ian_Grant]

The usual thing is to have small-value capacitors across the motor leads, and from each lead to motor case "ground", to suppress RF radiating from the motor. At least in the case of brushed motors.

[lmagna]

7 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

Guys how far from motors is ok to avoid interference for the RC gear and speed controllers?
Motors are in own compartment defined by Bulkheads up to waterline.

Distance should not be a large issue if you are using a modern 2.4GH radio/receiver. You may still want to run capacitors between the motor brushes and from each brush to the motor case like Ian suggested. You can also run a ferrite core with each motor power wire wound around the core. With a matched radio/receiver I doubt you will have any trouble anyway but just in case. If you end up running brushless motors you will probably have even less possibility of radio interference. The new paired radios are really pretty immune to RF issues.

 

Great build, this is going to be a real monster!

Edited April 30, 2022 by lmagna

[Richard Dunn]

Having a beer on the Wahine.

 

Here is a shot I took for my father because I have just found my favourite beer in Australia after 20 years! but it puts the size in perspective.

 

[mtaylor]

Wow... that is large model.  I didn't realize how large until this picture.

[Richard Dunn]

Every few months I search the web for new photos that might have surfaced that people have posted of the ship, Isn't it annoying when people do because they think it will interest people and yet when you contact them they ignore you...I mean we modellers have more use than most for such images... It drives me nuts!.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[mtaylor]

18 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

Every few months I search the web for new photos that might have surfaced that people have posted of the ship, Isn't it annoying when people do because they think it will interest people and yet when you contact them they ignore you...I mean we modellers have more use than most for such images... It drives me nuts!.

Sounds like certain social media sites.   They post wanting "likes" and maybe praise.   But questions.... nope.  Seems a bit selfish if you ask me.

[Richard Dunn]

Hmmm you could be right, personally I wish Likes were not a thing, I prefer to actually communicate...but then I am old school.

[mtaylor]

3 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

Hmmm you could be right, personally I wish Likes were not a thing, I prefer to actually communicate...but then I am old school.

As somewhat of a luddite, I'm with you, but the world has moved on.   MSW is probably the closest I come to social media.   

[Richard Dunn]

I don't even have a mobile phone.

[Veszett Roka]

Gents, if you allow me to join the gossip. I think the social media is way overrated, thus responsible for human estrangement. As a computer engineer, i come from the world with no internet, saw the growing of WWW and Facebook as well. Since the youngsters grew in the world when those are natural, they think it is the world and all is right when using them without criticism. However, using them with a little logic, intelligence and skepticism will help the mankind to spread the knowledge - and the good knowledge.
Contrary, we're (well, more of us) hanging on the false society what they (I mean Facebook, Twitter, Tiktok, whatewer) created for us, and many of us thinks this is the modern living. NOT. Modern living is for use the gadgets and social media for good: entertain yourself. And use the global knowledge of mankind to made your society a better place. Well, this is a better place for those social media, gets enormous amount of money to them so they will obstruct the critical use as long as they can.
MSW is a fine example of the good use of the tool: although i'm realtively new in the community, but since we share a common hobby and we're come from different countries yet still feel everyone as being a friend, despite we never met personally and has very little chance to do so.
Richard, mobile phones are great toys i believe. I do use mine all time when going outdoor hiking (a map), use it for personal trainer (when biking around) and it is good for listening music when doing my homework (i hate the roar of the vacuum cleaner). And yes, i can't hide from my wife but i can ask her what to shop for diner

[Richard Dunn]

On 5/4/2022 at 7:27 PM, Veszett Roka said:

Gents, if you allow me to join the gossip. I think the social media is way overrated, thus responsible for human estrangement. As a computer engineer, i come from the world with no internet, saw the growing of WWW and Facebook as well. Since the youngsters grew in the world when those are natural, they think it is the world and all is right when using them without criticism. However, using them with a little logic, intelligence and skepticism will help the mankind to spread the knowledge - and the good knowledge.
Contrary, we're (well, more of us) hanging on the false society what they (I mean Facebook, Twitter, Tiktok, whatewer) created for us, and many of us thinks this is the modern living. NOT. Modern living is for use the gadgets and social media for good: entertain yourself. And use the global knowledge of mankind to made your society a better place. Well, this is a better place for those social media, gets enormous amount of money to them so they will obstruct the critical use as long as they can.
MSW is a fine example of the good use of the tool: although i'm realtively new in the community, but since we share a common hobby and we're come from different countries yet still feel everyone as being a friend, despite we never met personally and has very little chance to do so.
Richard, mobile phones are great toys i believe. I do use mine all time when going outdoor hiking (a map), use it for personal trainer (when biking around) and it is good for listening music when doing my homework (i hate the roar of the vacuum cleaner). And yes, i can't hide from my wife but i can ask her what to shop for diner

Totally agree, we have 1 phone we use for emergencies as you said (wifes), and I do work in high tech jobs as well, VR and Computer graphics/animation and all that, my wife is a programmer.
I do have to say though that we both taught Game Dev at 1st year UNI level for several years and took  236 students through this 4 year course and in that time the damage to most students communication ability we witnessed due to texting and phones is just scary.
We even used to get reports written with large amounts of texting shorthand in it ,needless it was a fail as literacy was a key component.

[Richard Dunn]

To get back on track, I find myself at a milestone and paralysed by fear.

I am ready to start the plating of the superstructure and hull but for some some strange reason I can't bring myself to start gluing them to model , I am worried I might have missed something  maybe.

It's a weird thing but I think once I do start I will move quickly as it will transform the model as all the plates are pre primed in grey and once glued on weld beads will be glued into edges and rolled in.

I need to experiment with a glue to bond .5mm styrene rod into the v groove..

I am open to suggestions for this as this is something I know you guys will all have done.
if I use styrene glue it will soften the rod and enable it to be rolled with fine serrated roller to get the weld bead look at the same time as pushing it into the grove nicely and of course then primed with airbrush ready for top-coating.

Another idea that springs to mind is to soften rod and roll into place and once hardened again run a runny Super glue along bead to bond it in?

Once rolled it will flatten the rod and widen it a bit, and by varying pressure a bit I can get the varying width look a bit.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Kevin-the-lubber]

34 minutes ago, Richard Dunn said:

I can't bring myself to start gluing them to model

If my experience is anything to go by, listen to your gut feeling Richard. I've been the same with my tiny (by comparison) Cutty Sark until I got fed up with myself and got glue-ing, and of course almost immediately realised why I wasn't ready. On the brighter side, my heel dragging was all about the (pointless) quest for perfection, that I could have done X, Y or Z just that little bit better, but in the grand scheme of things the difference will be insignificant.

 

Maybe also try heating the styrene and then rolling in the pattern? It might give more predictable behaviour. If that works you could stick a batch in the oven and pre-pattern it in one session, then use a smooth roller to press it into the grooves when cold and firm again. I don't even know if styrene glue will stick to wood but I'm sure slow setting, thick superglue would do the trick..

[lmagna]

I think that Kevin's idea of heat forming the sheets to the hull is a great idea. This would somewhat match how they build the real ships and help keep the panels from wanting to pull away as much, if at all.

 

Have you any experience using the contact glues they use in laminate countertops? That stuff is incredibly strong as well as waterproof. The only problem is that once the two surfaces make contact with each other no adjustment is possible! Something a little more forgiving when applied but still waterproof and strong when set would be Epoxy adhesive Glues. They come in a number of setting times and are somewhat flexible when set up.

 

Looking forward to what you end up with. Whatever it is I am certain it will look impressive.

[Dr PR]

A thin two-part liquid epoxy "paint" would work to attach the styrene hull plates to the wood. It will give you time to adjust the position before it hardens and will give a very strong bond.

 

For attaching the thin styrene rods to the grooves in the plating I would use styrene cement (MEK or methyl ethyl ketone). Just use a small paint brush and apply a thin coating along the seam. The MEK will flow immediately into the grove and melt the two parts together. It dries in a few seconds and will not mar the surface of the parts.

 

You might also consider using very thin square cross section styrene strips instead of round strips. This will leave a "V" shaped bead that could be sanded/scraped down for a lower profile weld bead than the semi-circular bulge with the round strip.

[Richard Dunn]

Thanks guys but this is not about making and gluing plates to the hull its about gluing the .5mm styrene rod into the groove in the .5mm ply.
While people bought it up though I will write a bit about styrene panels as it stands In Northern Australia, IT does NOT work and it's a massive waste of time, I envy you fellows who have cooler climates but for us  the glue simply lets go when heated up and the styrene deforms and pulls away or goes brittle, I had a previous model I was building have this happen and pulled it all off again, this is exactly why I use .5mm ply and not styrene.
Its not something you would think of if you don't have 30-40 degree temps to worry about.

I actually bought a whole pack of styrene, meaning 50 sheets of 900mm x 1200 mm years ago for this model and have since given it away.

The only thing robust enough is wood on ply or vice versa and epoxy or in some cases aliphatic (Titebond).
I appreciate the help on that but I have already had experience with plates and even considered metal plating but again because of the temps the expansion becomes an issue.
I should point out I am a furniture builder by trade and although I stopped many years ago I have had lots experience with laminating tops with contact glue the tops made commercially use a industrial grade contact (usually red or yellowin colour) not the stuff you buy at hardware stores and its applied very thinly with sprayguns but even that will let go if heated enough, like leaving it in a hot garage.

 

Here is an example below, notice the deck peeled back on aft superstructure on model on rack in background

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

 

23 hours ago, Dr PR said:

You might also consider using very thin square cross section styrene strips instead of round strips.

Already purchased all the profiles I need in bulk, but round or square it will get squashed when rolled over while soft with a fine serrated roller.

If Davies Garner bought his Titanic model down here it would melt in a week, not kidding either.
It makes model building a little more expensive but we do what we must, .5mm ply 1200 x 1200 is $100 per sheet.

I have so far used 10 sheets of .5mm and 6 sheets of 2mm.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

I have figured out why I have an uneasy feeling preventing me from moving on, ,over the last 3 days I have been priming all the plating and superstructure cladding with hi build primer, as was contemplating the tin canning effect an felt it was still too heavy, I have discovered that 3 good coats of high build is enough followed by using a curved cabinet scraper to remove tiny amount between frames, so just a little and others down to the ply but the effect is much more subtle and I am far happier with his now.

This is a scraper ,its used to finish wood instead of sandpaper and is sharped by rubbing a burr onto the edge which acts as a hooked cutting edge.

In guitar building we use scrapers as the surface does not have clogged pores in the wood, it keeps them nice and open for grain filling prior to varnish, sandpaper fills the pores with tiny fibres of torn wood.

many old school craftsman use these still as they can produce shavings when done right, although in this case its paint so ....

so right now my job is scrapping, sanding with 240 and applying final primer coats to all the plates on the topsides and superstructure and  then once glazing is glued in bonding the plates to the hull for good, then as I get seams happening I can start applying weld beads, this will no doubt take a few weeks but at the end she will look like a grey primed real ship with all the little details of her plate work in place, namely the curtain plates (upstands around deck edges).

 

First things first I have to get the first few plates in EXACTLY the right place, luckily I had the CNC pen in the seams on the play as they were cut but most of it has been sanded off, should have enough points to get it right, I will tape 9 plates together off the model and then place them on with double sided tape and remove and glue as I go

 

This is how it will look as next stage is complete including the darker grey primer over he seams to help me keep track of what is done and what's not.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

I want to recommend this product as well, its industrial grade CA and from what I have seen its superior to the ZAP and other brands I have used, not to mention a lot cheaper due to bottle size, I have had an open 2oz bottle for 2 years and its still as good as new and by god does it stick.
https://starbond.com/

I am considering using the medium thick rubberised one for gluing plates to hull as I can hold them in place for 40 seconds and its done.

The thin one I have is instant bond, I mean a fraction of a second.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Dr PR]

Richard,

 

Good point about temperature effects. Putting styrene (any plastics) on wood is definitely not a good idea if the model will be exposed to direct sunlight for long (as will happen with R/C models).

 

Plastics have a relatively large coefficient of thermal expansion compared to wood, fiberglass or even metals. On another forum a fellow from down south in Australia built a 1:72 aircraft carrier with a wooden frame and styrene flight deck and sides.  When heated in the sun the plastic expanded faster than the wood. The flight deck buckled and some of the side pieces buckled.

 

As an example, a 6 meter piece of styrene will become about 5 mm longer with a 20C temperature rise. Wood does not expand that much. There is no glue that will hold wood and plastic together with that much difference in expansion.

 

Considering the size of your model it is very wise to use wood sheeting!

[Richard Dunn]

Woohoo
Thrusters have arrived for bow and stern.

Centre removable section with prop removed to show access cover to gears as well as struts and strut fixing.

Other side of boss

Prop, notice even the circler disc for the variabl pitch blades are modelled.

Prop in place in Tunnel.

How the centre section mates to the flange on both sides with a thin rubber gasket( not shown) to seal the tunnel, centre section is held down tight by cradles.

All that remains is for tunnels to be fixed into hull and kept back 10mm form skin, faired into hull and the grills soldered into tunnel mouths.
The whole unit will then be painted in red oxide except prop as I don't think the prop is painted normally correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you Simon Higgins from PropShop you have outdone yourself

 

[Richard Dunn]

Some pictures of the priming process and how it all comes together.

Plates ,plates and more plates.

Pic on wall behind is a checklist, red cross being primed, green being tin-canned and ready to install.

Working like this means the ply becomes like working with styrene in as far as it is surfaced and paint ready, only the sides of structure that have to have stiffener and framing attached are left, I am unsure if I should just prime it all and remove paint with a 1mm chisel where gluing needs to happen or weather to just paint the whole part once all framing is attached.

My gut tells me the first option that way I can paint the surface while flat and paint all the web frames, stiffeners etc and once all glued on  I can brush paint the corners where the joint lines are.

An example of superstructure side, this will get sliced up where seams go  later, just held on of course.

Waterway construction, here you can see the upstand formed by the ply, and why the  primary grain direction is vertical to strengthen the upstand.

the holes are scupper and vent locations

Fine CNC work cut with a .5mm cutter to house the mast sides and bulwark stays along the front.

The hole in the deck in the mast is a 5mm pin that goes down a full deck and into mast to give it strength as masts have no stays as such

The CAD model of this area o you can see better what is what.

And the real ship taken from top of funnel.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Veszett Roka]

Incredible precision! And what an enormous amount of work... Calm me down Richard, you will not capsize and sink her just for accuracy?!

[Richard Dunn]

Thankyou Veszett.
And no, at least I hope not.

If anyone has some advice or techniques for painting worn rubberised decks like seen above PLEASE share as that is going to be the biggest challenge for painting

[Veszett Roka]

4 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

If anyone has some advice or techniques for painting worn rubberised decks like seen above PLEASE share as that is going to be the biggest challenge for painting

 

It looks like used sandpaper. Couldn't cover the decks with it? However the fine scale sandpaper might be out of scale too... Which type of paint, enamel, acrylic? I'd go with enamel, it is more flexible. The worn spots could be added with thinned white or light grey later.
For smaller scales, i'd suggest to check out Ebroin's Miniatures or Laser Creation Word. The latter is a bit repetitive regarding the zombie apocalyptic themes, but the technics are quite spectacular.

 

[Jim Lad]

Been away for a couple of weeks Richard, and just catching up.  She's looking really first class.

 

John