HMS Sphinx - Galley Doors

[Goodshipvenus]

I’m moving along on HMS Sphinx and I noticed something I don’t understand. There are “Galley Doors” in the kit ,but they don’t seem to go anywhere or have any purpose. They are located directly behind the stove with a small space between the doors and the stove. The back of the stove has no opening , so those doors don’t lead anywhere or enclose anything. 
 

Any ideas?

[hollowneck]

Good question! I'm also building the HMS Sphinx, but don't have the answer.

Perhaps the purpose was to fool the ship's crew about where the food came from? I'm sure someone here will tell us. The little bricks are a good touch, but these doors - replete with hinges and doorknobs?

 

After contemplating the same question and thinking that the answer was a Zen koan*, I discarded them.

 

Ron

 

* What is the sound of one hand clapping?

[mtaylor]

I believe I read somewhere on MSW about those doors that there were/are removable panels on each side much like what's further astern.  

[druxey]

The doors and bulkheads were removable when clearing for action. In some ships the door section could be swung up under the forecastle out of the way in fine weather.

[Goodshipvenus]

But, why were they there in the first place?

[hollowneck]

45 minutes ago, Goodshipvenus said:

But, why were they there in the first place?

 

Precisely. I get that they could be moved or opened. You and I still want to know WHY not HOW...

Ron

Edited January 25, 2022 by hollowneck

[Blue Ensign]

This has also puzzled me as well, between the Riding Bitts and the Galley stove there is barely room for doors to open. On my Pegasus build which has the same situation I fitted the cants on the deck into which the  Forecastle bulkhead fitted (Including the Galley Doors) but left off the  bulkhead as it obscured the view beneath the Foc’sle.

 

None of my reference books indicate why the doors were there only that they were a feature.

The bulkhead obviously provided weather protection/security but why not place the doors either side of the stove in the bulkhead.

 

There are many such questions that bedevil  us of the 21st century, but those of the 18th century no doubt had their reasons.

I am prepared to leave it at that and get on with the model building.

 

B.E.

[chris watton]

These are a nightmare for me. Even following original drawings precisely, the doors would not open due to the bitts. So I had to move things slightly so they could open a little more, and it's still very tight!

[druxey]

My hunch is that the bulkhead and doors were there for foul weather protection and to retain heat in the space, and the doors were only partially opened to provide some ventilation.

[glbarlow]

Keeping in mind the wind and weather was always coming from aft quarters my best guess is to keep some of that from hitting food being prepared or fueling the fires on the stove, nothing more than a wind break.  I’m with BE though, while I appreciate Chris being true to the design I’ll leave it off because it obscures a view below the forecastle I’d have spent time building. No one is cooking anything on my models. 

[hollowneck]

4 hours ago, druxey said:

My hunch is that the bulkhead and doors were there for foul weather protection and to retain heat in the space, and the doors were only partially opened to provide some ventilation.

 

I'll go with your hunch, druxey.

 

and...

49 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Keeping in mind the wind and weather was always coming from aft quarters my best guess is to keep some of that from hitting food being prepared or fueling the fires on the stove, nothing more than a wind break.  I’m with BE though, while I appreciate Chris being true to the design I’ll leave it off because it obscures a view below the forecastle I’d have spent time building. No one is cooking anything on my models. 

 

or ...perhaps nothing more than "breaking wind." 🤣 This unexplained anachronism persists even with the kit's designer.  I had no reservations about deleting this door/screen arrangement on my build. Ironically, most everything else about this kit is very precise. The oven screen definitely obscures, especially when you're not opting to build an open reveal, quasi-Dockyard model.

 

Perhaps in 1775 there was still a Ministry of Silly Doors at the Admiralty?

 

Ron

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by hollowneck

[glbarlow]

3 minutes ago, hollowneck said:

most everything else about this kit is very precise.

I think Chris’ point was the doors are a precise rendering of the actual plans, even though he’s not sure what they’re for. And if Druxey doesn’t know….

 

[hollowneck]

5 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I think Chris’ point was the doors are a precise rendering of the actual plans, even though he’s not sure what they’re for. And if Druxey doesn’t know….

 

 

Yep, Glenn. I agree with your last words: if druxey doesn't know...

 

At the end of the day (and this thread) I hope Goodshipvenus is enlightened and has enough info to decide what to do.

 

Ron

Edited January 25, 2022 by hollowneck

[jud]

The whole arraignment looks suspicious to me. Stove sits on a brick bed, an approved and practical safety precaution, then that built in safety consideration was overcame and made moot by the placement of flammable and well dried wood so close to a hot iron surface radiating heat. There are good reasons to maintain space between stoves and flammable surfaces. Then there are the considerations of actual use of the stove for cooking for a large crew and the space needed to do so. Something is very wrong with this picture. 

 

[Blue Ensign]

Unless we can go back in time to 1775, we shall never fully know the reasoning behind the onboard arrangements on a  British Naval ship.

Trying to equate 18th c practice with modern health and safety  concepts is a pointless exercise.

Sailors of any age  are if anything practical and I’m content to accept that they knew what they were doing.

Historical evidence does confirm that such screens were in use, whether we as modern model makers choose to display them or not.

 

B.E.

[allanyed]

Jud, Suspicious perhaps, but look at the contemporary drawing of a 64 below and the fact that the bitts are a few inches from the stove.  If you research other contemporary drawings and you will see this practice was not uncommon.  Squirrel 1785 inboard profile below also shows how close the bulkhead is to the stove.   Hold a piece of wood or paper a few inches to the side of a hot  grill set at  500 or 600 degrees or a fire place and it does not catch fire.  (At least it didn't when I tried it) 😀

 

Allan

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, jud said:

Stove sits on a brick bed, an approved and practical safety precaution, then that built in safety consideration was overcame and made moot by the placement of flammable and well dried wood so close to a hot iron surface radiating heat.

I wonder where on a wood ship you could avoid that problem? ( If it was a problem. )

 

FWIW, Lavery says the brick hearth was in disuse after 1757, but those bricks look more cool on a model..😀

 

[Morgan]

I believe Lavery is referring to the entire stove being made of brick which was the practice before cast iron stoves, not just the bed to the underside of the stove.

 

Gary

[Gregory]

Reading closer, I believe you are correct!