Recommend me a frigate kit?

[Tyguy35]

Hey, I am looking to build a frigate for my next kit. I do have the Occre Diana kit under my bed but the gallery windows being too low drive me a little crazy (not skilled enough to come up with something myself). I was thinking about building a frigate from another company. Does anyone have any recommendations? This would be my second boat build after the Polaris. 
 

preferred decent instructions and good materials. 
 

thank you 

Tyler 

[Thunder]

I am building the caldercraft Diana at the moment but i would not advise it as a second kit. If I had not already of had it in my stash I would of gone with the Sphinx from Vanguard models. It is still rated as an experienced builder but the build methods and instructions have improved dramatically since the Diana kit was designed.

[DavidG]

you may have a look on the Artesania Latina Hermione kit for a second build here https://artesanialatina.net/en/ships-advanced/484-wooden-model-ship-kit-hermione-la-fayette-frigate-8421426325171.html?mot_tcid=e87a7115-6a0e-4f2d-91d3-dbc3fbc2526a. It's a newer design than the Occre one, and definitely fulfils the need for detailed instructions. Still uses plywood parts a lot, but for the price it seems to be a decent offering.

 

 

[Nipper]

My experience is limited.  I know two models only, both from Vanguard, and both have been very satisfying to build with excellent instruction manuals.  The Sphinx is expensive but it is good value for money.  It is classed as "experienced" but it is OK for a beginner as long as you are prepared to be patient and take your time to try things out, and redo things, before committing to glue.

 

One of the best things about Vanguard models is that there are people here on MSW who will help with any questions, in particular the designer himself, Chris Watton, who will respond himself if asked.

 

Nipper

[mugje]

Yes Sphinx is a good alternative, but not sure how experienced you are. I'm building it now and it's a real joy. Your criteria of decent instructions and materials are met with this kit. I can't judge how difficult it is because i'm not that far into the build yet, and i'm considering myself a experienced beginner. But knowing the designer and prototype builder are here on the forum, that gave me enough confidence for trying to tackle this kit  

 

 

[ccoyle]

Going from Polaris to a frigate is a huge step up, not just in terms of complexity of the subject but also in terms of the sheer number of repetitive tasks to be done, e.g., ratlines, guns, etc. I suggest aiming for something a little smaller, such as an armed sloop or gun brig. While not frigates, those subjects will still be sufficiently challenging and produce striking finished models.

[allanyed]

Other than the Vanguard kits I would avoid the others mentioned for various reasons unless you are not concerned with accuracy or are ready to do a lot of research and are OK with kit bashing.    Also consider the following high quality project.   https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/hms-winchelsea-1764.php   

 

Allan

 

[Tyguy35]

Hey, thank you for all your suggestions. 
I have been looking at the hermione and the surprise recently. I will have to look at the sphinx. 
 

I’m definitely at no skill level as most of you but I take things slow that is forsure. If I don’t know something or how to do something I will research it and if I don’t understand I’ll ask. 
 

I want to do a frigate because I’m interested in them. If I choose something I’m not interested in it will Be a rough time and I’ll likely never finish. 
 

I’ve made 2 mistakes on the Polaris that I know of. Ones not so bad the other I just didn’t look at the instructions hard enough and I’ve learned from there. Triple check everything haha. 

[Thukydides]

I am going to second @ccoyle's recommendation and suggest you might want to consider an intermediate step. I am currently doing a cutter and even with the one mast, the number of repetitive task that risk sapping your enthusiasm is high. Some intermediate step kits you might want to consider that will give you a good stepping point towards somthing bigger like sphinx might be:

• Flirt or Speedy from Vanguard Models - Small 14 gun Brigs
• Alert from Vanguard Models - Large 12 gun cutter
• Trial from Vanguard Models - another cutter featuring more precut parts. I would recommend this one over alert if you are planning to follow the plans, if you like to kit bash I feel Alert has a little more scope.
• Syren from Model Shipways - larger 16 gun brig

[Landlubber Mike]

I'd build what you're interested in.  If it's a frigate, build a frigate.  I built the Caldercraft Badger as my first kit, and while I have three wooden ship builds in process at the moment, I didn't think they were too far a step up in skill level.  To me, the bigger ships typically just have more repetitive tasks that need to be done, they don't necessarily involve new construction techniques.  Just take your time and look at other logs and you should be good to go.  If you are worried about experience level, just buy one of the kits with good instructions and lots of build logs on here.

 

For what it's worth, the Euromodel La Renommee that I'm working on is a frigate.  The kit pretty much comes with no instructions, but has really good plans.  @piratepete007 has put together a wonderful practicum for this and other Euromodel builds that is very helpful.  Euromodel kits do require more scratch building than typical kits - they are a good middle ground if you ultimately want to scratch build some day.  I love the subject, which is based on plans found in Chapman's Architectura, but I'm convinced it's not a French vessel but more likely a Swedish vessel (more on that in my build log).

 

I had started building the Corel Unicorn - also a frigate - but there are a lot of errors and shortcuts in the kit.  It does make for a nice model, but if you're into accuracy, then it's not a good kit to try.  I ended up abandoning my build for that reason - the hull was way too tall and the plans were all over the place - drove me a little too crazy and I just thought it made more sense to spend my time working on something else.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Landlubber Mike

[Tyguy35]

Repetition is not such a big deal just do a bit at a time. But yes decent instructions would

be best. The only thing I think I would struggle on with any of them is just the planking of the hull. I’m just not sure which technique is best to go with a a learner. 

[RossR]

I started with HMS Beagle and my second build is the frigate Diana both from Occre.  I have enjoyed hundreds of hours building these and don’t regret my choice of models.  However, I have no doubt that my skill as a model builder would have been better served starting smaller.  As I am a couple years into the hobby I do wonder if I went about this the right way.  Decide if you primary goal is to develope skills that will result in later building your “master piece” or are you willing to sacrifice some of your skill development for a subject matter you find more interesting.   
 

I have the US Brig Syren on the shelf and I won’t start that one until I am confident my skills will do it justice.   
 

while the cost of a kit is high, the per hour cost of the hobby is incredibly low compared to my other hobby of golf.  Good luck on your next build whatever you decide.   

Edited December 13, 2023 by RossR

[Chuck Seiler]

I would heartily second (3rd and 4th) the above recommendations to NOT do a frigate as your second model unless you DO have the skill set.  I have seen way too many CONSTITUTION models started, then donated because the modeler was in way over their head.  Most people make mistakes in their early models and learn from those.  Frigate models require a much larger investment in money AND time...I would think you would want to be proficient before starting one of these.  A half @$$ed SULTANA is one thing.  A crappy model you intend as a showpiece is a cow of a different color.

 

Don't dismiss the drudgery of repetitive processes.  It is one of the primary reasons models are set aside and never finished.

 

I look forward to what you come up with and will be looking for your build log. 

[Nipper]

4 hours ago, Tyguy35 said:

Repetition is not such a big deal just do a bit at a time. But yes decent instructions would

be best. The only thing I think I would struggle on with any of them is just the planking of the hull. I’m just not sure which technique is best to go with a a learner. 

Agreed - planking a hull really is a challenge for the inexperienced.  I followed the video instructions provided on MSW by Chuck Passaro and it helped enormously.  It took me several months to plank my Sphinx, working for an hour or two several times a week.  That's slow going and you have to be prepared to accept that.  But it was great fun and I got better and more accurate as I learned.

 

Several very experienced posters here are recommending that you learn on something smaller first, then move on to your frigate.  Why not go for a small fishing boat on which you can learn planking, It shouldn't take long and you can always leave it unfinished if you're desperate to get onto the three master!

 

Nipper

 

[allanyed]

4 hours ago, Tyguy35 said:

The only thing I think I would struggle on with any of them is just the planking of the hull. I’m just not sure which technique is best to go with a a learner. 

There are really two choices, the way some kits suggest where many of planks do not end at the rabbet near the bow which, generally speaking, is not correct, or the way it was actually done.  I don't think one is easier than the other, so your choice.   If you decide to go with actual practice there are tutorials here at MSW in the Articles Database https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/APrimerOnPlanking.pdf and the four part You Tube video by Chuck Passaro.  I think that as you will have straight planks you will not be able to spile the planks as in the tutorial so the method used in the videos might be better.  Part 1 is 

 

[Tyguy35]

I appreciate everyone’s advice. I am going to have to do some more research. You all

are more than likely correct and I will

likely pick something different as a second kit. I do not want to get discouraged if I cannot figure something out. Thank you everyone. 

[Tyguy35]

6 hours ago, RossR said:

I started with HMS Beagle and my second build is the frigate Diana both from Occre.  I have enjoyed hundreds of hours building these and don’t regret my choice of models.  However, I have no doubt that my skill as a model builder would have been better served starting smaller.  As I am a couple years into the hobby I do wonder if I went about this the right way.  Decide if you primary goal is to develope skills that will result in later building your “master piece” or are you willing to sacrifice some of your skill development for a subject matter you find more interesting.   
 

I have the US Brig Syren on the shelf and I won’t start that one until I am confident my skills will do it justice.   
 

while the cost of a kit is high, the per hour cost of the hobby is incredibly low compared to my other hobby of golf.  Good luck on your next build whatever you decide.   

I have gone over your posts aim the Diana probably a hundred times. You’ve done a great job. 

[allanyed]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, RossR said:

Decide if you primary goal is to develope skills that will result in later building your “master piece” or are you willing to sacrifice some of your skill development for a subject matter you find more interesting.   

It takes most builders years to reach higher and higher skill levels, but as it is an ongoing process I do not understand why these would be separate goals?  Is there an example where we would choose a subject we like but are then unable to use this choice to start or continue to develop modeling skills as well?  Inquiring minds and so on😀

Allan

[Chuck Seiler]

    I've decided that my primary goal is to enjoy the process/enjoy the hobby.  My skills improve and I work towards having a masterpiece that will be on somebody's mantle 100 years from now,  Meanwhile I have met all sorts of interesting people and can swear in multiple languages.

[RossR]

8 hours ago, allanyed said:

It takes most builders years to reach higher and higher skill levels, but as it is an ongoing process I do not understand why these would be separate goals?  Is there an example where we would choose a subject we like but are then unable to use this choice to start or continue to develop modeling skills as well?  Inquiring minds and so on😀

Allan

They aren’t separate goals, but I believe by choosing a ship like the Beagle for my first build may have slowed my skill development compared to building simpler builds like some of the Modelshipways kits.  I just prioritized a kit I found more interesting.  Skills still developed, just at a different pace and different order perhaps.   

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, Chuck Seiler said:

Meanwhile I have met all sorts of interesting people and can swear in multiple languages.

Funniest thing I have heard in a while😀  Members sometimes disagree with each other over points here and there, but we all love this hobby and I for one am very happy to learn from every single member and/or be corrected if I got something wrong.   Going back 50+ years ago I was taught by one of my first bosses that even the newest member of our team can often do something better than anyone else and as a supervisor it was my job to find out what that was and utilize that skill for the betterment of all of us.   Same goes for this hobby.   Many of us have decades of experience but we often learn a new trick or idea from even the novices thanks to our membership's willingness to help each other.  But I digress.....