Second planking done.....what do you do to fine it up.

[bigcreekdad]

Second planking, while done, needs a lot of sanding and finishing. Assuming you are not painting your hull, what do you use to fine up the hull?

[Gregory]

I just finish with 320 to 400 sandpaper.   I also use a wipe on poly that’s been thinned with about 25% mineral spirits.

Several coats, that are wiped with soft cloth and left to dry over night between coats.

You can look at later pics of my Resolution to see the effect I get.

Edited February 9 by Gregory

[allanyed]

2 hours ago, bigcreekdad said:

Second planking, while done, needs a lot of sanding and finishing.

Can you post a couple photos?  If the planks are spiled or otherwise tapered and pre-curved before attaching to the hull the sanding should be minimal as described by Gregory.  If the planks are lifted due to edge bending, it may require additional work if, hopefully, there is still enough wood to scrape or sand.   I prefer scraping to sanding in some few cases, depending on the situation, especially deck planking. 

 

Allan

[bigcreekdad]

Actually...this was a rhetorical question. Sorry for confusion, but I am half way through second planking and already see  that , when finished, I still had a bit (maybe a lot) of work to go on the hull. I've attached some pics which will speak for themselves.

 

Honestly, I am not at all happy with my effort. See the pics I've attached. I've built two very nice (IMO) ships with very nice planking results. And the Supply is my second ship milling my own planks with a Byrnes saw and thickness sander that have turned out quite well (again..IMO). I'm not sure how I have lost my edge, other than if I was to start over, I would mill the strips (cherry) a bit thinner.

 

In any case, I am at a crossroads......continue on or shitcan it and try to do a better job on another. I'm in my mid 70's so I don't have may ships in the wings, and I hate slugging along on this one not at all liking my results. I was not planning on painting....I know that's an option I would have to hide my mediocre planking.

 

I'm rambling

[Gregory]

One option would be to sand as much as  you need to, to Smoot things out and not worry about breaking through that layer, then go with another layer.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to abandon a project if I felt I wasn't meeting my goals.

[glbarlow]

I always round off/bevel the bottom edge of one side of each plank to meet the not rounded edge of the plank it sits against. It gives me a much tighter fit. I rip my planks near 1/16th so I have plenty to sand off ending up with about 3/64ths thickness. 
 

I agree with Gregory, don’t chase it if you don’t see a path to recovery. More than once I’ve ripped off whole sections of hull planking to do it over, sometimes even a third time. 

[ERS Rich]

Hi, I don’t think all is lost here…..

 

Use toothpicks and fill in the gaps with Titebond.  Recommend avoiding covering large areas of the hull with filler, it’s a waste of time removing it, when just the gaps need it.  Think of the glue as oakum.

 

It’s good the planks appear to be thick.

 

Sandpaper can be difficult as is it will slowly round over the plank tops - see the bow.

 

I use files, flat and half round to work the hull.  Go 90 degrees along the plank to quickly remove wood.  Go lightly until you get the hang of.  With practice you will get great control, quickly removing wood.  Move the file parallel, edge along the planks,for finer control.

 

As Allenyed mentions scrapers work too….
 

Sandpaper is a drag, and not appropriate, when a lot of wood needs to be removed.  It can seem like after a lot of sanding nothing is happening and the planks have humps.

 

Here are a couple of pictures of a hull in progress demonstrating what’s possible.

 

Hang in there and good luck with it!

 

-Rich

 

The lower planks are before working, upper have been worked….

 

Upper planks mostly done, lower planks need some work….

 

 

The files…..

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12 by ERS Rich

[bigcreekdad]

Rich...I appreciate your thoughts. How big are those files....they look huge, but maybe just the close up effect.

 

Actually, I was pretty much going to send this to the dry dock of the dead. I was going to revisit my scratch Cutter Cheerful build. I had set it aside when I got to needing a drop plank. For some reason it baffled me. Up to that point my planking of the ship was quite good (IMO). The thought of screwing it up was a huge block.

 

I hope to finish the Cheerful while I'm still on the grassy upside, but might try your suggestions and see if I can get (reasonably) back on track. I do like the ship itself.

[tlevine]

Use this hull as a teaching aid to learn how to plank a hull better.  Without seeing the bulkheads, I am guessing a bit but most likely the hull wasn't faired enough at the bow.  Because of the curvature, it is necessary to bevel one side of the plank to achieve a tight fit.  The hull planking does not appear to be laid out in belts and spiled.  Use this as an opportunity.  Strip the planking.  Fair the hull better.  Take a look a the Half Hull Planking project in my signature.  This will explain how to lay out planking belts and spile the planks.  Since you stopped Cheerful when you needed a drop plank, the project will show you how to do that and how to add a plank at the stern (if that is necessary).

[allanyed]

The wood they gave you is not well suited for planking so this may create problems for some folks, not all, from the start.  In a nutshell, the advice above is worth following, along with

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWooJ1o3cM    This is part 1, study all four parts. 

https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/APrimerOnPlanking.pdf   here at MSW for a great how-to on spiling planks

 

Your photos show that you seen to be trying to edge bend and that usually is problematic unless following the methods similar to the videos above.

 

Allan

 

[modeller_masa]

I think the second planks are sapelle strips.

 

(1) The best : Remove any unsuccessful planks and place a new strip tightly.

It needs huge time and labour, but the best way to revive the ship.

 

(2) Hiding : Fill the gaps with wood fillers and stain the entire hull.

Find the most similar colored wood filler. My choice was mahogani colored wood filler from Timbermate. The colour should be matched with sapelle strips.

And apply an oil based gel-stain. I used the Varathane oil based gel stain, cedar color. 

Warning - test before apply it. I bought 7 different colored wood fillers and 6 gel stains and tested various combinations to find the best result.

 

 

[ERS Rich]

3 hours ago, bigcreekdad said:

How big are those files....they look huge, but maybe just the close up effect.

Yes, they are full size files, about 9” long.  The hull is the Hermione Lafayette, about 20” long.  

 

To clarify stroke the file along the plank at about 45 degrees or so - a shear cut.  Light pressure, let the tool do the work - cut the wood, don’t gouge it.  

 

With practice you can get control to the point where you can remove small amounts of wood.  Control is the difference between a file and sandpaper.

 

The right tool changes this job from a pain to a joy.

 

Practice on poplar or another hardwood.  Home improvement stores sell project boards in hardwood.  

 

Or go for it on this hull, if it goes wrong strip and redo the planking as others suggest.

 

Good luck

 

 

[bigcreekdad]

The second planking is cherry

[allanyed]

BCD

What model/kit is your project?

Thanks

Allan

[modeller_masa]

I guess the kit is Artesania Latina's Hermione La Fayette. Both old and new kits included sapelle strips.

 

// Oh, you replaced the kit strips with cherry strips.

Edited February 13 by modeller_masa

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, modeller_masa said:

I guess the kit is Artesania Latina's Hermione La Fayette. Both old and new kits included sapelle strips.

I checked the AL site.  The kit description in the advertising was over the top, but it did not indicate whether the kit was of the original later 18th century ship or the present replica.

For a detailed model, the ANCRE monograph contains all of the detail that should be wished for.

 

15 hours ago, bigcreekdad said:

70's so I don't have may ships in the wings, and I hate slugging along on this one not at all liking my results

I suggest that you fare the planking layer.  With boards that wide, a lot may have to be removed to get a smooth curve.   Consider what you have to be a two layer POB build.  Study - really hard - on what the actual planking looked like - and the tutorials for how to plank.

As a first layer, the gaps between the planks can remain as they are.  Using a gap filling product will not make it a better support for an outer planking.  The second layer will hide the first.  The gaps will be covered over.

The scantlings for planking width -  I would guess that what you show would be 2-3 feet wide in scale - instead of the 6" +/- on a ship.  The garboard strake may have been scribed from  12" wide stock if such was available. Getting boards even near that wide to lay flat on the surface of a curved frame - does not seem like something that could happen.

[modeller_masa]

According to the information sticker on the box, the Hermione La Fayette kit from AL received an official license for a modern replica (2014) in France. The newer kit has better details and refined hull structure, but it doesn't guarantee academical accuracy, as Jaager said.

[DavidG]

you may give it a good sanding, fill the gaps and add a further, thin 3rd layer of planking as an option.

[bigcreekdad]

Sorry I didn't mention this up front. The ship is Jotika's HMS Brig Supply.

[ERS Rich]

Sort of circling back to the question.  

 

I’ll seal with one of these products.  Given the coarse grain, leaning towards the Gesso, thinned down and, shot with the Iwata RG-3 mini sprayer.  It’s slightly gap filling as well.

 

This Hermione is an old AL kit about 10 or more years old….goal is to practice and improve techniques - get a visually convincing result - a model of the ship, rather than an exact reproduction.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

That wood does not resemble any cherry that I have ever used for projects or that remains in my lumber pile.  It appears to be some sort of walnut.

 

Roger

[bigcreekdad]

Then Woodcraft is selling mislabeled stuff.

 

BTW....I've added a few pics of my previous 2 builds. 1) Occre's Dos Amigos with cherry I milled, 2) Vanguard's HMS Speedy with kit supplied pear.

[bigcreekdad]

Update. I have moved on. I am seriously back to building the cutter Cheerful. I am now working on the dreaded drop plans making "practice" ones before any attempt at mounting. Also, cut a nice supply of Alaskan Cedar planks on my Byrnes saw.

 

While I somewhat regret quitting the Brig Supply, it was just too damn frustrating. I did apply the suggestion by EMS Rich by using files, and it clearly improved the sordid job I had done. I tried to continue the planking but I still wasn't happy with it....so, to the scrapyard it went.  Not sure why I fell off the plank wagon on this, but I needed to move on.

 

Thanks for the comments.