Bristol Pilot Cutter by michael mott - 1/8 scale - POF

[Sailor1234567890]

Tom, to answer your question about coaming height. In a sailing vessle with a cockpit, it is preferable (though not always done) to have the opening to the cabin also known as the companionway at a higher height than the coaming surrounding the cockpit. The reason for this is pretty  evident when you think that a wave could poop her and flood the cockpit. If the opening to the vessel is lower than the level of the cockpit coaming, the water trapped in the cockpit will flood below. If the opening is higher, then the cockpit (which should be restricted to the smallest practical size in an oceangoing vessel for just this reason) contents cannot flood below decks. An option often used to get around the lack of space to do this properly is to fit drop boards that extend higher than the coaming. The problem with this solution is that the crew must fit these boards before they encounter heavy weather in order for them to work. As far as keeping water that has washed down the deck from flooding the cockpit.... Yes, that is true. However it is not entirely possible to keep ALL water out of the cockpit in really nasty weather and the best insurance is to have your companionway separated from the cockpit by a bridge deck (small seat/deck that is level with the rest of the deck) and a coaming around the cockpit. Keep the accomodation companionway higher than the deck level and keep the cockpit small with oversized drains. This is all stuff that should be looked after by the NA who designs the boat. There are many MANY illdesigned vessels out there today. They cost a lot of money and are comfortable alongside in port. They hardly meet the minimum safety requirements for proceeding offshore. Large windows and skylights, big open cockpits.... All these things are nice to have in port but at sea, most seasoned sailors will have a vessel that has the smallest round (not square) portlights, and the smallest cockpit possible. A vessel with a larger cockpit will often carry her liferaft in the cockpit. It is no longer useful to stand in as you'll hit your head on the boom but it displaces the water that would otherwise swamp the boat. The most famous cruising couple, Lin and Larry Pardey built their boat, a small 30 foot cutter similar to this, with NO COCKPIT at all. Therefore no chance of being swamped by a cockpit that won't drain. Plus they've gained a ton of space below decks. They have added strength from uncut deckbeams under the deck in way of where the cockpit would have been.  I love this stuff. So cool to think about.

Hope this isn't too rambling and that it answers your question. Sorry about stealing the thread.

I now return you to the build you were looking for.
Cheers,

Daniel

[michael mott]

Yambo thank you for your thoughts, it prompted me to ask a question in this thread.

 

Daniel thank you very much for your very informative reply to the cockpit coaming issue, as a general designer I sometimes wonder why a design that looks good in some respects nudges my intuition with "Something isn't right though thought" As I have been working through the various elements on this model I end up taking a break to get a long view of what is needed and why. this Cutter model is and has been very important to my own learning with regard to ships and boats in general. I am beginning to be able to see some things of nautical design that I would have missed earlier but now I understand, I think that this is why I am not reticent to change or redo something on this model, because it is also about the journey for me and not the destination. Hopefully I will end up with something I am pleased with overall.

 

Michael

[michael mott]

New Cockpit part 1

 

I have begun building the new cockpit, the first task is to prepare the mahogany boards that will form the walls of it.I have chosen 1 1/4 inch as the thickness of the boards and the widths will vary slightly from the corners and the straight sections.

 

The first picture shows the new boards rough cut to double the length of the depth of the cockpit over the tracing of the opening in the deck.

 

 

The second picture shows the first shaping of the corner boards these will be similar to the edge planking that some cedar canoes are made with a matching convex and concave edge to wrap around the curve.

 

 

I turned a convex shape on the end of some 3/8 drill rod then rough ground the cutter edges I made it a four flute then hardened and tempered it, honed the edges with a carbide stone in the Dremel tool.

 

The set up was done with the mill, in order to push the board I used the push board from the table saw by cutting a slot in the push board that was the same set up as the thickness of the boards I slipped a strip of 1/16th styrene into the slot and added a strip of 10 thou sheet to make it tight.

 

 

This allowed me to add good even pressure and keep my fingers away from the cutter and the best thing was only having to make one pass.

 

 

I will cut enough for all the corners then make a corresponding cutter for the convex side of the corner boards.

 

I will tongue and groove the straight boards

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by michael mott

[michael mott]

New Cockpit Part 2

 

The second cutter was not quite a successful as the first so a bit of handwork was needed to clean up the round, Basically I made it a bit too small.

 

I shaped a piece of .008" shim-stock to the aft curves on the deck hole to act a a platform to lay the boards while they set.

 

 

After they set one edge was trimmed on the disk sander .

 

This method is working well enough so on to the forward curves.

 

Michael

 

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by michael mott

[Sailor1234567890]

I built my canoe using that principle. You can buy router bits that will put that bead and cove into the planks. They're often called "canoe bits". I ran 21 foot planks through with the bead, then the cove. Probably about 50 or 60 planks 1"x1/4"x21'.

 

 

 

 

 

No idea why this picture thing isn't working for me. Tried to put up 3 pictures but only one worked. I think.

[Sailor1234567890]

 

Here's my brother and I milling strips. A stack of infeed on my left and a stack of outfeed just visible on my right.

Much bigger setup though. 

 

I love that you're coming to the same solutions others have come to. Funny how we don't have to reinvent the wheel all the time. 

Edited December 15, 2013 by Sailor1234567890

[michael mott]

Daniel, thanks for the information regarding the canoe bits, I checked them out in my Lee Valley catalogue, pity the smallest is 3/16 and not 1/8th it is easy enough to make them out of 3/8th drill rod. it was holding them that was the more difficult to figure out for some reason. I am thinking of making the cap corners from some .010 veneers and laminating the curve.

 

Michael

[shipmodel]

Hi Michael -

 

Your cove and hollow system is similar to how I used to make tambour doors for rolltop desks and kitchen counter appliance garages.  I used to have a set of router bits that were bought as a matching pair and did quick work of the task.  I believe that the worked down to 1/8", but it was a long time ago.  I believe that I got them from Constantines' in NYC, which is now out of business, but maybe Rockler has something similar.

 

Just another thought from another Dan.

[michael mott]

Hello Dan I have checked the major suppliers and so far the smallest appears to be 3/16 radius.

 

New Cockpit part 3

 

All four corners are now glued and the final shaping is underway on the corners.

 

 

The sharp radius turned out well.

 

 

The oxidation of the fir decking is obvious now that the wide section of the old cockpit has been removed.

 

Michael

Edited March 28, 2014 by michael mott

[popeye the sailor]

how would you get rid of the shadow?   do you think tung oil on a Q-tip would help?

[Twister]

Michael,

 

It's been a while since I was last able to check in and wow, phenomenal progress!!

 

Looking at the mk1 & mk2 cockpit coaming, the mk2 looks infinitely better and far more realistic. For finishing, I think a rounded capping piece would really make it. It's worth noting that most production boats (and poor restorations) fit the wrong shape of capping - they tend to be flat topped with radiused edges but should have a slight radius over the top to assist with shedding water. Where the original coaming has been removed I'd be inclined to try re-sanding the deck to colour match before trying any oils.

 

As usual, excellent, nay, stunning work!! I really must make / find more time to keep up with your progress - the same applies to my own build (little or no physical progress but a modicum of thinking about sail winch servo positions).

 

Keep up the amazing craftsmanship,

 

Regards,

 

Row

[Jim Lad]

If the new bare piece of deck doesn't dull down properly, Michael, you could always add a fancy moulding round the base.

 

John

[Elmer Cornish]

hi Micheal. fresh coat of finish and time should solve the fading issue's .man that is one beautiful build! . and the refit on the cockpit.awesome. honest I thought it look great as it was!, but love were its going now!!

[michael mott]

First thank you all for your kind remarks, and all the likes.

 

New Cockpit part 4

 

Regarding the deck oxidation at the moment there is no surface treatment on it it is just a scraped finish, so a final scraping before applying the teak oil should take care of it.

 

I have begun gluing together the boards for the flat areas of the cockpit these have a micro bevel on all four edges this will need a little touching up before the final varnish.

 

 

The corners have been rough sanded to shape now, when all the walls are complete and glued together I will make the cap by laminating a few .020" veneers together around  formers for the corners when it is shaped and finished it will be stronger than a bent piece and will look like a solid piece. similar to this bent piece as part of a wicker seat which was made by bending a group of veneers around a stainless steel strip and gluing them. After they had set up they were removed from the strip then shaped with files and sanded.

 

 

The next picture shows the top edge of the flat section.

 

 

I will need to make a new grating for the floor or rework the edges with some new boards.

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by michael mott

[Jim Lad]

Coming along very nicely, Michael!

 

John

[captainbob]

Fine work, Michael.  And it's about time you got around to making the foreman a chair.

 

Bob

[michael mott]

Thanks John and Bob for stopping by.

 

This evening I replaced the fife rail with a slightly longer one with shaped ends it is hard maple.

 

The first rail

 

And the new one

 

 

The new one has a greater scope for operation.

 

I have also begun shaping the forward hatch, it will have a pair of lights that will hinge up.

 

Michael

Edited March 28, 2014 by michael mott

[pete48]

Beautiful Job Michael, I am very impressed with this build and the detail work, I have enjoyed following this build log

 

Best Regards,

Pete

[Elia]

Michael,

 

Progress on your cutter model looks great. I think the revision to the coaming dimensions will improve the look of the cockpit, and your wood work is as crisp as ever. I love that bent back wicker chair, too.

 

Cheers,

 

Elia

[allanyed]

SUPER!!!!  Love the chair arms and seat lattice.

Allan

[druxey]

The seat caning job is very impressive Michael. Would the corners of the hatch be rounded off ? (I know, it would spoil the crisp lines of your dovetails!)

[Timothy Wood]

Fantastic!  I have to agree with druxey, rounding off the corners of the hatch would ruin your great workmanship!

 

Tim

[shipmodel]

Hi Michael -

 

Excellent clean and precise work, as usual.  I was wondering what the scale height of the fife rail is from the deck.  It looks to be no more than a foot (assuming the belaying pins are about 18" long)..  Would this be a useable height?  I am not familiar with real boats like this, so it certainly could be right.  It just looks strange to me compared with fife rails that I know from earlier ships.

 

Dan

[michael mott]

Pete, Elia, Alan, Druxey, and Tim. Thanks for your kind remarks and encouragement. and all the likes

 

Regarding the forward hatch and the dovetails, I might be confusing you or I am confused.

 

The dovetails on the Cabin structure will remain as they are there will be no rounding. I was referring to the small Mahogany hatch forward of the fife rail. the corners on it were mitered and not dovetailed and it was already rounded, but it was taller and heavier looking. 

 

 

You have got me thinking now that I might have to build a new one out of pine with square corners that are dovetailed.

 

Michael

Edited March 28, 2014 by michael mott

[popeye the sailor]

your detail work is top notch Michael!  it's refreshing to see this build evolve the way it has    Happy holidays my friend!

[michael mott]

 

Excellent clean and precise work, as usual.  I was wondering what the scale height of the fife rail is from the deck.  It looks to be no more than a foot (assuming the belaying pins are about 18" long)..  Would this be a useable height?  I am not familiar with real boats like this, so it certainly could be right.  It just looks strange to me compared with fife rails that I know from earlier ships.

Good morning Dan. excellent question, it has been something that I have been wondering about myself.

I had asked Russ about the rails on his sloop and about the sorts of clearances needed to make things like rails and pins workable. when I did a Google search for fife rails they appear to be all over the map(both literally and figuratively)regarding heights and sizes.

 

The top of the rail on mine is 9 inches above the deck and the pins are also 9 inches long, short perhaps for a ship but long enough I think for this size of boat she is basically 40 foot long, well 42 feet. My cap rail is only 8 inches above the deck as well.

 

The other option is to redo the whole rail and make it higher, I wouldn't rule out that option either.

 

Oh there are so many things that I will do differently on the next cutter well smack actually I want to do a working fishing boat based on the Gloucester fishing smacks. after the launch or when this cutter is finished. this is proving to be a very interesting learning curve. The more I learn the more I realize how little I know.

 

Denis thanks for your encouragement.

 

Michael

[pete48]

Hi Michael, She looks fantastic , I would not change a thing (regarding the rail height)

 

Best Regards,

Pete

[michael mott]

Pete , thanks for your thoughts on the pin rail.

 

Michael

[garyshipwright]

Hi Michael. I have been going through your log for the last couple of days sir and must say that your metal and wood working are outstanding and top notch. It does seem that you have a very good relationship not only with wood but with metal which am still working my way through it. Will be keeping a eye on you log sir and have already learned a thing of two that should come in handy for Alfred. Have enjoyed your log very very much, and look forward to more updates. Gary 

[michael mott]

Gary, thank you very much for the compliment. I have not done much on the cutter for a couple of weeks, I have been trying to finish up a small project that I started 44 years ago, which will be useful for continuing my work on the Cutter, and on future models.

 

Michael