HMS Guadeloupe by jack.aubrey - 1:48 scale - ex French Le Nisus - Brick de 24

[Fam]

Hi Jack

interesting dilemma... Definitely, i.m.h.o., better a fake figurhead than a dummy or nothing at all!

What about carving a fake figurhead based on the name you will chose for the ship? OK, not historically accurate, but apparently there are no other sources contributing to the solution of the problem. Lot of pictures are available in Google...

Ciao

Fam

[cthutq]

Nice progress, looking at the pictures I was wondering why the cygne has two unused gunports at the front?

Good afternoon. 

These two ports are used to pursue, just rearrange the gun from the nearest port. 

Sincerely Cthutq

[jack.aubrey]

Thanks to Giorgio (GioMun) because in its message I had the possibility to identify exactly the authors of the two models I presented in this topic. The Authors (with the A in capital letters) are:
for Le Cyclope, Bernard Frölich
for Le Cygne, Jean-Claude Buchaillard

And thanks to all the other users for their contribution with their opinions . .

I'm seriously considering a fourth alternative for the figurehead, I'll explain better.

I wrote that it's my intention to build a brick captured by the RN and I have selected 9 potential candidate. The nine brick to which I refer are those listed below. I tried their translation into Italian and I got interesting references. The original French name represents, if I understand correctly, birds and in some cases mythological characters.

Curieux >>> Curious (??)
Phaeton >>> Phaeton (mythological) but also a bird
Voltigeur >>> Acrobat
Griffon >>> Griffin
Basque >>> Basque (??)
Lutin >>> Sprite, elf, goblin
Nisus >>> Nisus character of the Aeneid or Sparrowhawk (Accipiter Nisus), bird of prey
Milan >>> a bird of prey of various species (see Wikipedia)
Colibrì >>> Hummingbird

It's likely or plausible that the "bird" ships had a kind of figurehead like Le Cygne, which represented the bird its name implies, while for others it would be even easier for Phaethon (mith), Nisus (Aeneid) and a little less for Curious, Acrobat and Elf . For Basque just would not idea.

In the ANCRE monograph it seems that this logic may be applied.

According to the previous list good candidate names may be: Griffon, Nisus, Milan, Colibrì, Phaeton (bird) and probably also Lutin. Internet provides lot of images usable for these names.

 

I'll appreciate considerations or comments . . 

 

Here some examples . .

 

Nisus 

 

Colibrì

 

Phaeton

 

Griffon

 

Milan

Edited October 1, 2014 by jack.aubrey

[Cristiano]

Hello!

interesting questions and WIP...

Curieux can be really an adjective related to a person, since France has got many ships like the Capricieuse, Railleuse, Tapageuse, Gracieuse and so on.

If you find the figureheads of the above mentioned ships, probably you will find a way to represent the Curieux.

But generally I suggest to check if some ancient French term had a different meaning from now.

As an example, Basque maybe two centuries ago represented something clearly identified, different from modern definition.

[GioMun]

Ciao Jack!!

 

You know, there is another Boudriot''s book you may be interested in.

 

Modeles Historiques au Musee de la Marine Vol.1. It has a chapter that shows a brig, named L'Esperance. Boudriot explains that this brig was made according to Pastel-Sane drawings, because about 60 brigs were built with this plans, from late 1700's century, up to 1820's.

 

This brig has a beautiful eagle as figurehead.

 

 

Greetings.

 

[GioMun]

Sorry, forgot to say.

 

Basque in French, it's a nationality, it refers to the people that lives in that part of France. Don't know the name of that region in English, sorry.

 

Greetings.

[hexnut]

Voltigeur can be loosely translated to "jumper". 

 

This refers to Napoleon's elite light infantry skirmishers, who originally were supposed to jump onto the back of a cavalry horse and ride behind the cavalryman to the "trouble spot".  

 

"Les compagnies de voltigeurs de l'infanterie de ligne ont été crées en 1805. En théorie, le voltigeur est un soldat capable de sauter en croupe d'un cavalier afin d'augmenter sa mobilité."

 

Then they would jump off and fight on foot. 

 

The transportation method didn't prove to be practical, but the Voltigeurs saw much action, notably in the Iberian peninsula fighting against British light infantry and rifle companies. 

They did have distinctive uniforms that might make an interesting figurehead...

 

 

 

[GioMun]

http://5500.forumactif.org/t1814p80-le-curieux-au-1-160-par-r-simon

 

Follow this link. It's a building log of Mr.Richard Simon, on the Delacroix's forum.

 

Yes, it's Le Curieux, I didn't mention it because I thought was Le Cygne.

 

The modelers mentions a plan of Le Courieux, but its incomplete, and the figurehead is missing. Anyway, he managed to find out how was it, and he built it.

 

Greetings.

 

Giorgio.

[jack.aubrey]

http://5500.forumactif.org/t1814p80-le-curieux-au-1-160-par-r-simon

Follow this link. It's a building log of Mr.Richard Simon, on the Delacroix's forum.

Yes, it's Le Curieux, I didn't mention it because I thought was Le Cygne.

The modelers mentions a plan of Le Courieux, but its incomplete, and the figurehead is missing. Anyway, he managed to find out how was it, and he built it.

Greetings.

Giorgio.

 

Hi Giorgio, I already know this model from this article. Here is the full article: 59-2 NRJ French War Brig article.pdf

Thanks anyway, Jack.

[jack.aubrey]

Voltigeur can be loosely translated to "jumper". 

 

This refers to Napoleon's elite light infantry skirmishers, who originally were supposed to jump onto the back of a cavalry horse and ride behind the cavalryman to the "trouble spot".  

 

"Les compagnies de voltigeurs de l'infanterie de ligne ont été crées en 1805. En théorie, le voltigeur est un soldat capable de sauter en croupe d'un cavalier afin d'augmenter sa mobilité."

 

Then they would jump off and fight on foot. 

 

The transportation method didn't prove to be practical, but the Voltigeurs saw much action, notably in the Iberian peninsula fighting against British light infantry and rifle companies. 

They did have distinctive uniforms that might make an interesting figurehead...

93565778caporal-de-voltigeurs-jpg.jpg

 

Hi hexnut, provided it is the right character assigned as name to that brick, your image should be interesting to reproduce as figurehead. Thanks a lot, also for the piece of history till now unknown to me. Jack. 

[harvey1847]

Very interesting indeed and beautiful posts...

 

The Basque is a state in the north of Spain, close to France like "Sardinia" is a island from Italy. You could add a human figurehead like the one I have attached. It´s the figurehead of 74 that never was built or at least I have not seen in tens of books that I´ve read. He is holding an olive branch. In fact the name of the ship is Prince of the Peace.

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

Daniel.

 

P.S. If you want a higher definition shot just PM me and I´ll send it to you.

Edited October 2, 2014 by harvey1847

[jack.aubrey]

Friday, October 3, 2014 - Structure of the stern

 

I put aside for the moment the figurehead "dilemma", although the topic remains open, to move on. 
 
It's been several days since I posted new pictures of the state of the shipyard and what I am about to show may appear a very small thing for those who have not experienced the problems I lived. 
In fact I could not spend the time on the model as I wanted because some commitments did not allow me, but apart from this detail, in fact, after a first attempt that did not achieved the results I expected, I had to disassemble what was wrongly done and start over with some variations. The explanation is all here. 
 
In the first picture you can see the exterior of the stern, which is slightly curved and "square" shaped, shape that is to be considered temporary. In fact, the next step will be to cut out the contours to the shape of the plans. At the time the sizes are quite generous. But from the outside, you don't understand how this structure is built . .
 
01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100034_zps83e0931a.jpg

 
Instead, the view from inside should serve to show how everything is set up. 
In fact we can identify three elements that compose it and which, together, provide the thickness and adequate strength until the planks will not be applied:
 
- Four shaped supports which are fixed to the last bulkhead and provide the base for the other two elements. They are made with special plywood because I felt very sturdy and therefore unsuitable to use the classic poplar plywood. However, it is the same material used for the keel.
- The outer part consisting of two shaped plywood pieces of 1,5mm. applied externally to the previous element. The top one is simply rectangular, the lower one has a shape that I had to get empirically by testing first with cardboards until I identified the right one and then copy it on to the plywood.
- Once the second element was fixed the next day I proceeded to stiffen the inside using lime 8x2mm strip glued properly. Note the need to cut with a given angle the side that met the internal angle and the bulkhead. To do this was very useful the power sander that I bought from Proxxon time ago.
 
Now that everything is perfectly dry it looks like a very strong structure able to deal with the stress of the next processing.
 
02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100033_zps8b1cb266.jpg

 
Finally, an overview of the whole skeleton of the hull.
 
03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100032_zps1be31e11.jpg

 
To be continued . . Regards, Jack.

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[jack.aubrey]

Continuation of the previous message . . full view images.

 

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100031_zps5bc7f705.jpg

05 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100030_zpsf148ad2e.jpg

06 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100029_zps3882f7df.jpg

Regards, Jack.Aubrey

Edited September 5, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[Mirabell61]

Very nice Framework Jack

 

Nils

[jack.aubrey]

Monday, October 13th, 2014

 

Today I overcame my reluctance to make dust and in the afternoon I set a good pace to shape the bow and adequately prepare the bulkheads with the "famous" bevel angle.  
Below you can see the bow area, where there was to sand more with power and manual tools than in other areas of the hull:

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00347_zpsf4527c5b.jpg

But even in the stern there was enough work to do, in particular for shaping appropriately the transom in order to make possible to glue the last piece of the planking. Here a view of the internal side:

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00348_zpsd8c6be91.jpg

While here below I propose a view of the transom from the outside. As you can see the stern looks more like a stern than before I worked on it. In due time, I will also shape the top side, the horizontal one, of the same.

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00349_zpsccdb1613.jpg

However also the entire hull, limited for now only to the part above the waterline, has been sanded properly. In fact, the next step will be the installation of the planking at the top of the hull, in particular on the external and internal sides above the main deck. The lower hull will be planked in a second time, when the top is complete and will be possible to capsize the hull without risks:

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00351_zps0760046a.jpg

To do this work, today I used a new entry: the belt sander BS/E (or BSL 220/E) from Proxxon. A couple of tests on pieces of wood to waste just to make some experience with the tool and then I started . . it works pretty well although quite noisy and tending to heat up quite a bit after you use it for some time.

Brick%20de%2024%20Plans/BSL220E_zps8f1f50f3.jpg

Kind regards, Jack.Aubrey.

Edited March 25, 2019 by jack.aubrey

[NMBROOK]

Wonderfully clean and crisp work Jack

 

Kind regards

 

Nigel

[jack.aubrey]

Wednesday, October 15th, 2014

 

Today I started to apply the first planks. .  
 
These are strips of lime wood, very beautiful, size 6 x 2 mm, purchased at a model hobby shop in Milan hinterland. 

The first strip, in the photos the lower one, is in one piece and has been installed according to the line references of the deck, references which were previously marked on the bulkheads with a small incision on the outside and passed through with a pencil. With this one piece plank I secured a very accurate alignment and natural sheer. 

Then I started to apply shorter planks concentrated in the area from amidships to the stern to rise, in order to properly cover the deck walls. 
Next activity to reach the same situation from amidships to the bow. I hope tomorrow. . friendliness, Jack.Aubrey

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00352_zps7734b1f0.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00353_zpsa31b4e8c.jpg

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/CAM00354_zps5195574f.jpg

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[Omega1234]

Hi Jack.  Coming along very nicely!!!!

[jack.aubrey]

Saturday, October 18th, 2014

 

In these days since my previous post where I showed the state of my model, I finished to install the upper planks in the bow area. Here, with respect to the stern, there was an additional difficulty due to the need to properly fold the strips. 
My method, now standard for me, uses a metal can, fixed on a stable base, with a small candle inside that warms the upper surface of the can. I place the wood strip, previously put to soak in water for some time, and I model it to the desired shape. For me now it's child's play and the curves come very natural.

As always, I emphasize the fact that the strips (6 x 2 mm), in addition to being glued to the bulkheads, are also glued together so that they constitute a very solid and robust surface. As always I uses vinyl glue and, where necessary, clamps to hold or brass nails (not completely hammered, so that I can easily remove them when the glue is dry).

At this point, the external bulwarks size is pretty much over, missing only a final "on top" strip of 4 x 2 mm which I will apply later.

Finally today I focused my work on the bulwarks from the inside. In the following photos you can look at the work done inside, where I fixed generic pieces of strips vertically. The thickness of these strips is 2 mm. 
The combination of the horizontal outer planking and the vertical internal planking has now a depth of 4 mm and the whole has a extraordinary rigidity and robustness.

But let the pictures speak . .
 
Three-quarters of the bow on the right side . .

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100041_zpsbe8f420f.jpg

 

Again three-quarters of the bow of the left side . .

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100043_zps074deab0.jpg

 

Other views from different viewpoints . .

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100036_zpse95a5ac2.jpg

 

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100042_zps0722b0a6.jpg

 

05 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100040_zps857068ca.jpg

 

In the next message I will deepen the internal construction of the bulwarks to see where I'm going. .

Friendliness. . Jack.Aubrey.

Edited September 7, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[kees de mol]

Look like a very neat job. Everything straight and tidy

[jack.aubrey]

As promised I try to explain more in detail the process of building the bulwarks.

 

Before continuing with the application of the planking downwards, I decided to finish all the area that now is already planked. This part of the hull, being a brick a single decked ship, is the area where the gun-ports will be opened, and inside, the deck will contain all the superstructures of the model.
The thickness of the bulwarks, according to ANCRE plans, is reported to be 6.5-7 mm, and then I found myself faced with two possible assembling solutions.
Given that a second planking is planned, made with veneer of a wood not yet decided, with thickness of 0.5mm I proceed to describe the two options:

1) sand and level the available toptimbers, already part of the bulkheads, to a thickness let's say of 3 mm, and then apply the internal planking based on strips of 1.5 mm thick; the result will be 2 (external planking) + 3 (toptimbers) + 1.5 (internal planking) + 0.5 (second planking of veneer), with a total thickness of 7 mm. During the opening of the gun-ports I should expect that there will be a vacuum inside, to hide properly;

or

2) a: fill with strips with thickness of 2 mm the internal spaces between the toptimbers; these strips, to strengthen the structure, should be placed vertically; b: then repeat with other strips of the same thickness but placed in a horizontal manner; in this way we have reached a total thickness of 6 mm of a virtually all solid wood, a real "sandwich"; c: at this point level the toptimbers properly and d: by applying the veneer (second planking), both externally and internally, reach the desired thickness of 7 mm. The opening of the gun-ports will always find solid wood.

Personally, I chose the second solution for two reasons:

1) even if it may appear more complex it is much easier to achieve in practice, you just need a bit of patience due to the fact you are managing many small pieces of wood;
2) the structure thus obtained is extremely sturdy, virtually indestructible . . and for a fanatic like me this robustness is crucial.

And the images that follow, which have more details of those I proposed yesterday, show what I'm doing.
The first two figures show the first inner layer of strips placed vertically, fore and aft. The wood used was got from my stock of strips and I think they are larch, wood good and hard enough but that is not usable for finishing because the grain is too exaggerated. The arrows show the small areas still to be finished that need to be filled with custom pieces of wood, task I'll perform at the first opportunity. It's also important to fill these small gaps to ensure robustness and to avoid finding these gaps when you open the gun-ports.

As to complete the outer planking of the bulwarks still lacks a last plank of 4 x 2 on top, these vertical slats are high enough to apply this last missing strip, with a small surplus which will be leveled at the end. The installation of this last plank will be much simplified as will rest in every point on the rear structure.

 

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/a9b9edb4-da6d-430c-ae5f-5622c2d56ab7_zps9bc6ae7d.jpg

 

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/73ce6050-5f8e-4152-aa22-fffd8f9ec264_zps909041a1.jpg

 

In the image below I propose an anticipation of the next step, shown here by a green circle: the same strips are now installed as an additional layer in a horizontal manner. And it is at this point that I can reach the planned 6 mm thick solid wood . .

 

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/01bb19c9-4368-40fb-b22a-06a9794fac09_zps87a88d0b.jpg

 

I hope to have given you an idea of the kind of work is waiting me in the next few days and what you will read accordingly in the next few posts related to this model. The opening of the gun-ports will be done later, after I'll finish to plank the hull and the deck.

To meet next time, Jack.Aubrey.

 

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100044_zps91f9e4e1.jpg

Edited September 7, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[yvesvidal]

Great explanations Jack. I like the technique as you end up with the equivalent of some very sturdy marine plywood.

The real challenge will be to sand the bulkheads, flush with the added wood. This should be very strong, for sure.

 

Yves

[jack.aubrey]

The real challenge will be to sand the bulkheads, flush with the added wood. This should be very strong, for sure.

 

Hi Yves,

In theory you are right, sanding manually the toptimbers of the bulkheads may be a nightmare, but there are the power tools . . the oubiquitous mini drill with a drum sander or a cutting disk or the belt sander and also the delta sander . . all of them may be useful, provided you are patient and careful to manage these tools to keep safe your model and your hands . . 

Regards, Jack.

[jack.aubrey]

Sunday October 26th, 2014

 

I spent some afternoon sessions in this past week to continue the task of building the interior of the bulwarks. Friday I finished and now I'm here to plan the bulwarks refinements. They will be the task for the coming week.

At the moment I have no images to show but I will add something asap.

 

I spent Saturday afternoon speaking in my workshop with another italian ship modeler that decided to build the same brick, with a different name but belonging to the same "Pestel" class, using my CAD enhancements of the ANCRE plans.

 

Very interesting and pleasant afternoon . .

 

where I also had the possibility to watch closely an almost finished model of a "Knorr", the merchant ship equivalent of the Viking Drakkar. Outstanding model with a delicious klinker planking very difficult to achieve . . .

 

See you soon, Jack.

[Fam]

Thank you Jack, it was a pleasant noon for me, too!

I'm sure I will enjoy the collaboration, as we have already done in the past, and the building of this new project. Today I've got the basic material for the hull structure and the building base, this evening will start to produce some sawdust

 

See you soon

Fam

[jack.aubrey]

Here is a beautiful example for those who wonder about the usefulness of the forums . . . Sometimes the tool really proves valuable, as in the case mentioned here below.

 

Elsewhere someone else has taken up the issue raised by me long ago on the figurehead and sent me something really useful, something which I thank him publicly:

 

 

Hello Jack,

Meanwhile, congratulations for what you are doing and how you teach it: for me as a beginner it is a real lesson of shipmodelling. I would like to re-open the issue of the figurehead sending a file that I found surfing on the internet: it is "Le Faune". Of course the Royal Navy changed its name as HMS Fawn, but as you can see the figurehead I thought would be of interest, of course if you do not already have it. Friendliness

The attached file is the following:

 

[jack.aubrey]

French Brick Le Faune (1804)

 

"Le Faune" was a French naval Le Cygne-class brig launched in 1804 to a design by François Pestel in 1803. She participated in the capture of HMS Blanche in July 1805. The Royal Navy captured Le Faune in August 1805. She was taken into service as HMS Fawn, but the last record of her dates to 1806. In 1807 the Royal Navy launched a new HMS Fawn.

Career:
On 19 July 1805 Le Faune was part of a squadron of four vessels that captured HMS Blanche off Puerto Rico, three days after they had left Martinique. The other three were the 40-gun French frigate "Topaze", the 22-gun corvette "Department des Landes", and the 18-gun "Torche". Le Faune was under the command of Lieutenant Charles Brunet.

About one month later, Le Faune, still under the command of "enseigne de vaisseau" Brunet, was carrying dispatches from Fort-de-France to Saint-Nazaire via Saint-Martin-de-Ré. When she was southwest of Ouessant, on 15 August, she had the misfortune to encounter HMS Camilla.

 

Camilla chased Le Faune for nine hours before capturing her at Lat. 45 Deg. 18 Min. N. Long. 7 Deg. 36 Min.

 

The 74-gun, third rate HMS Goliath was in the Channel Fleet when she saw a sail to eastward and three sail to westward. Goliath sailed east and joined the chase, helping Camilla to capture Le Faune. Faune was armed with 16 guns and had on board 98 men. She also had on board as prisoners 22 men from HMS Blanche.

After Goliath helped Camilla capture Faune, she set off after the other three French vessels. Raisonnable joined Goliath and they were able to capture Torche, which the Royal Navy took into service as HMS Torch, but Topaze and Department-des-Landes escaped.

Captain Robert Barton of Goliath sent Le Faune into Portsmouth with Camilla. Barton reported that Le Faune was a new ship, on her first voyage, from Martinique, extremely fast, and would make a good addition to the Royal Navy.
The Royal Navy took Le Faune into service as HMS Fawn.

 

However, after 1806 there are no records of her.

 

Here below three articles fron the London Gazette describing some events where Le Faune was involved . . 

 

 

 

[jack.aubrey]

Tuesday, October 28, 2014

 

Last monday I did nothing but today I started with good will to finish the inside of the bulwarks, removing , as scheduled, the excess of plywood toptimbers. 

Initially I started using a method that produced few dust and which consisted of a blade of a small hacksaw for iron. I only used the blade, without the bow, and to use it I covered the ends with tape. Then, holding the blade folded properly, I started to cut the plywood in excess. 

The method worked adeguately but then I had to sand and trim the corners with the deck that was impossible to achieve well in any way except by using abrasive blocks and wood cutters. 

Then I wanted to try to use the belt sander BSL 220/E presented in one previous message and I immediately noticed a positive difference . . no effort and pace. 
Of course, the bad side was the dust, in fact produced in great quantity, so much that I finally decided to leave and to complete the last remaining toptimbers tomorrow. 

I spent the time I had left to suck the laboratory with a vacuum cleaner. 

Below two pictures of the front of the hull, showing the inner sides of both right and left bulwarks nearly finished . . 

 

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100050_zpsa78bcf51.jpg

 

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100047_zps6ba96ebd.jpg

 

Instead at the poop there are still five toprtimbers per side I have left for tomorrow, which, however, give an idea of the work that had to be put on the track to get rid of the excess wood. 

Finally, having already done much dust, I sanded adeguately the top of the bulwarks leveling the three layers of planks: this was a job that came with the belt sander incredibly ease: it is a tool that I highly recommend, of course for those who can afford it. .

 

03 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100048_zpsf1050203.jpg

 

04 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100049_zpsa806d014.jpg

 

All for now, until next time, Jack.Aubrey.

Edited September 7, 2017 by jack.aubrey

[mtaylor]

Hi Jack,

 

Try setting up the vacuum cleaner so that it will suck up the dust as you sand.  I do this frequently and does keep things clean.

[jack.aubrey]

On 29/10/2014 at 11:39 PM, mtaylor said:

Try setting up the vacuum cleaner so that it will suck up the dust as you sand.  I do this frequently and does keep things clean.

 

Hi Mark, are you referring to the vacuum cleaner that can be directly connected to the power tool ? A wide choice of Proxxon tools has this possibility and they also sell a proprietary vacuum cleaner as shown here below . . unfortunately it doesn't seem to be usable with the belt sander BSL 220/E.

 

 

Two other overall viewpoints, that do not add anything new to the work done the past Tuesday. . 
Wednesday I finished the leveling of the aft toptimbers that I wasn't able to finish Tuesday. I used the "belt sander method" that definitely proved to be incredibly better than the other one I have described. 
Regarding the wood dust . . patience, I finally sucked the workshop and the session ended there. 
Regards, Jack.

 

01 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100052_zpsb10fa7c9.jpg

02 Brick%20by%20JackAubrey/P1100051_zpsd15f38f6.jpg

Edited September 7, 2017 by jack.aubrey