Louie da fly

Thanks, Matle. Von Grünenberg, as is to be expected from a member of the mediaeval/renaissance ruling class, was almost obsessed with heraldry, and I'd be prepared to believe that every coat of arms portrayed is accurate. Yes, that one I knew from the text. But the fortifications shown are not as they are now. Either the artist got it wrong or (more likely) they were rebuilt to cope with the new more powerful cannons coming into use at this time. Tall walls and tall towers were vulnerable, and new, more compact forms were coming in - see the fortifications of Malta which were built in the first half of the 16th century. [Edit]Compare this with the marine gate at Rhodes, built when artillery wasn't such an issue, and the main thing to guard against was people scaling the walls. So walls were built very high, with battlements to deter climbers and infantry. Cannons changed all that - one of the main reasons the Turkish conquest of Constantinople succeeded. And here's some information about von Grünenberg himself - https://www.petersommer.com/blog/another-view/gruenenberg-1486-croatia-greece - apparently he was the artist! And you can find the whole book at https://digital.blb-karlsruhe.de/blbhs/content/thumbview/7681 - amazing! I'm very glad I followed this up. Strangely, one of the pics I'm most interested in - of Sibenik in Croatia (because it has a great picture of a carrack in it) in this version the ship is different. This is the one I'd like to get in more detail: it's attributed to von Grünenberg And this is what the above archive has: Same city, same configuration, same coat of arms (though reversed out), but different. Presumably they re-drew the pic for another edition. Dammit! Oh, and if you want some more carracks, the Peregrinatio in Terram Sanctum (Pilgrimage in the Holy Land) by von Breydenbach has some good pictures; https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/von-breydenbach.html [/Edit]

And it's a particularly good reproduction of the "Chinoiserie" style of lion fiurehead that was so popular at the time, right down to the expression on its face.

Some more oarsmen, and a nice background picture. It's a reconstruction of the Byzantine harbour of Theodosius (where the Yenikapi ships were found). It would be good to make one of those background pictures big enough to look like it's a real background, but I'll have to wait till lockdown is over so I can get to a shop that does it. My wife tells me I have to stop making these figures, otherwise I'll go blind. I've decided I'll only do it till I need glasses. Oh.

I'm following your log. Coming along well already. That's a very cute photo of your daughter and grandson.

I'll pull up a chair, if you don't mind.Looks like an interesting project, and you're off to a good start. Regarding the orientation of the photos, I've had success saving the photo to a file on my computer, then rotating it and re-saving it if its orientation was wrong, and only then uploading it to the build log. Sometimes it's up the right way in the file but wrong in the build log. If that's the case, I delete the uploaded one from the log and go back and rotate it again till it all comes out right. Others who are more tech savvy might have a better way to do it, but this seems to work for me. Regarding rigging, there's a whole section in this forum just related to it. Just go to the home page and you'll see it about halfway down the page. Rigging is very date-specific - twenty years can make a big difference. There are books out there which others should be able to refer you to (not my field - I know nothing baout the rigging of this period) which should be able to help you a lot. Also look at other Thermopylae build logs, and perhaps others from ships of the same time like Cutty Sark, which should give you some pointers. BTW, just a bit of historical interest, "Thermopylae" means "hot gates" in Ancient Greek. The "gates" were the narrow pass across the mountains, the "hot" was because there were hot springs there. Looking forward to watching progress on this one.

Well, certainly no problems with your ship modelling abilities - I'm impressed! I agree with Bruce D - once you've settled on a powerplant you will narrow down the list of kits considerably. You could also consider scratch-building if there are no kits that fit the bill sufficiently. But that means going over to the Dark Side . . . Nothing to do with the subject, but I remember the Two Ronnies TV show back in the 70s, where Ronnie Barker answered "viewers' mail". A Barking viewer wrote in to ask how to stop barking. He was referred to a Tooting viewer with a similar problem . . .

You may already have these, and not so much to change anything in your model, but for additional information that might be of use in resolving questions about construction details, you might like to look at https://www.academia.edu/19499820/Construction_Features_of_Doel_1_a_14th_Century_Cog_found_in_Flanders?email_work_card=view-paper https://www.academia.edu/27506746/Doel_2_a_second_14th_century_cog_wrecked_in_den_Deurganck_Doel_Belgium https://www.academia.edu/40371597/The_IJsselcog_project_from_excavation_to_3D_reconstruction

Very true. I have to force myself to stay focussed on my current build - otherwise I'd be starting all kinds of new ones. I have a list a mile long of models I'd like to make, and it takes a considerable mental effort to keep on the same one and get it finished, particularly when I'm doing something repetitve and boring, but necessary to finish the model. Even now I've got two under way rather than one, but I've at least put one on hold till the other is finished.

That's a very nice bit of planking, Lapinas. You can be justly proud of it.

All right! Onward and upward! (Oh, and welcome back!)

Ok, but my coffee's getting cold . . .

Very interesting and attractive colour scheme, Binho. As far as I know there's no archaeological evidence either way on colour so you've got open slather . . .

Amazing work, Siggi!

That'd be great, Paul. Make sure you announce the build log here so we know you've started and can follow your build.

Hi Trent, and welcome to MSW! Is that your new grandkid in the avatar? Very cute. Once you receive your kit, make sure you start a build log. It's a great way to get help and advice and encouragement, and we get to see your progress in building a beautiful and gracious ship. To start a build log for a kit, loo here: Good luck with it. Sounds like you'll be kept busy for quite a while . . . and don't be afraid to ask questions if you get stuck or need to find something out. That's what the forum's all about. There's plenty of experienced modellers here, and they're very happy to help. And there is NO such thing as a stupid question

Welcome, Strelok. Make sure you make a note on this thread when you've started your Golden Yacht build log. I for one would like to watch the progress!

Hi Bruce, and welcome. Mark's right - steam-powered models are a bit rare on MSW. A few questions - Firstly, have you ever built a ship model before? Though it's not impossible, taking on a large or complicated project first off can be a bit overwhelming. If you're planning to build a steamer, what kind did you have in mind - modern or transition from sail to steam - merchant vessel or warship? That will make a big difference in where you should be looking. Second, do you have any experience with steam engines? That's a whole subject in itself. There are quite a few model steam engines out there that might be of use to you, but I can't point you in the right direction because I have no experience with such things since my Dad built one from a kit when I was a nipper about 60 years ago. As far as I know there aren't any kits out there that are steam-powered, so the first thing to find out would be what kit you could buy that would be suitable to convert to a steam-powered model, that was also not too expensive, and has clear instructions? I realise this doesn't really answer your questions at all, but it might give you some idea of what to look for and where you should be looking. Having said that, the idea of a proper steam-powered ship model being built on MSW would certainly be of interest to me, and I expect also to many other members. Once you're over the search phase and have a kit to start on, you'll find the members here very helpful and encouraging. I wish you every success with your quest - I just wish I could be of more help.

Looks very good from here, Rodolfo. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the likes and for the replies. Matle, I'd agree that it would be unlikely for Turks at that time to put an animal figurehead on a ship. However there were plenty of people who'd already been in shipping when the Turks took over, who would have simply continued in business, and it may have been such a ship. And yes, such figureheads are quite common on contemporary pictures of carracks, and the discovery of the Gribshunden one was a wonderful proof that they really did exist. Cotrecerf, thanks in particular for the translation. That's very helpful indeed. It links together what I'd made from my poor attempts at translating and makes it all into a coherent whole. I think you might be right - that von Grünemberg would have considered himself "above" making his own drawings and local artists to illustrate his account of the pilgrimage once he got home. Certainly some other pictures in his account support that idea - particularly that whoever drew the pictures didn't fully understand how a lateen sail works. On the other hand, the level of detail in the drawings suggests someone who actually observed the ships first hand, even if lateen sails confused him. Look at the placement of the lifeboat on the galley, the supports below the oar outrigger, and other details. And though galleys did get at least as far into the Atlantic as Antwerp (I have a picture from 1515) the ship behind the galley and the ship on the left in the picture below are vessels characteristic only of the Mediterranean. It's my opinion that von Grünemberg took an artist with him to illustrate the journey. The flag with the complex red cross on it is directly connected with the Kingdom of Jerusalem - though Jerusalem had fallen centuries before, the "kingdom in exile" still existed. With some research it would probably be possible to track down the yellow and blue striped coat of arms on the galley's awning and banners. Just below the "crow's nest" is a note in red which seems to say "Duser galleig" - perhaps it's from the port of Durazzo/Durres in the Balkans? The idea of the balls being clay containers for fire weapons is interesting. Perhaps that really is what they were. Amateur, I agree about the bonnet. I think the artists just missed a bit of line immediately to the right and left of the wolf's head which would have made it complete.

Mighty Mo, indeed! About 30 years ago I almost got on board Missouri when she was berthed in Sydney. It would have been good to stand on the actual ship where the final surrender was signed and the end of World War Two. But the crowds were so huge and thick that they closed off visiting before I got to the head of the queue and I missed out. Still regret it a little.

Irony, Dick. Irony . . .

Very nice, Hellmuht. A very enjoyable process to watch.

While it can be risky to go against the kit instructions (as I've discovered to my cost in the past), sometimes they are just plain wrong, and you have to weigh up what is the best thing to do when confronted by conflicting information. Regarding the sketch, it seems to me that it shows the scrollwork having splayed edges as received, and that you should cut the edge to a right angle - or even to a slightly acute angle - before fitting to the model. Would this make sense? There aren't any photos of the scrollwork in your log, so I don't know if it's supplied loose or if it's laser cut from a sheet. If the latter, I'd expect the edges to already be square. Regarding the doubling, perhaps the shaded sketch at the top is a sectional view which shows the doublers being tapered down towards the ends? (assuming that's what it's supposed to represent - there's no label on it). But if so, what's that long slot running down the centre? If you compare that picture with the model, it might give some insights . . . perhaps the slot is where the keel goes? (working completely in the dark here as I can't look at the bits and pieces).

Careful Pat. It's very easy to get hooked!

You're pretty close - the best word to use for profondeur would be depth. Unfortunately Engliush is not a very logical language. And I certainly agree with your comment.