Louie da fly

Nice to see another mediaeval ship, Silverman, and nice to see another cog! I take it you re-enact 15th century stuff? You're already well into it, and the model is already looking very good. I like the fact that you're basing it so firmly on research and archaeological finds. A bipod mast on a cog seems very unusual. What does the author base that on?

That's looking really good, Dick. Those photos show off the beautiful shape of the hull, as well as the fine detail of its construction.

As always, supreme quality and phenomenal detail.

Nice clean work, Chris. I'll be following this build with interest.

Oops! My bad (though in my defense, the Queen Elizabeth log has only been up for 9 hours. And then there's the time difference to consider . . . ). What's the other build? I couldn't find it.

Welcome to MSW, Tensecondsdown. Interesting name - is there a story attached? Victory is a huge undertaking, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Patience and persistence are your best "tools". In the meantime, I'd recommend starting a build log for your Greyhound - it's a great way to get help and advice,and often solutions to the problems that arise, from people who've already been there. The instructions for starting a buildlog are here: As your model is already part complete, it's probably best to start out with a few photos to bring it up to date, and then proceed from there.

Looking forward to seeing your build log (when you get the chance to start! )

Hi Chris and welcome. When you start your next build make sure you also start a build log. Apart from giving everybody the pleasure of watching yourmodel take shape, it's a greatway to get encouragement, help and advice. The instructions on how to start a build log are here:

Damn! I was going to say that! You beat me to it! BTW, if you have any trouble having a continuous line between the two joined planks, at least below deck-line, it might be an idea to add a slim piece of wood bridging the gap and extending some way either side of the join, on the inside of the hull where it would be invisible. And as well as helping maintain a continuous line in the planking, it would add to the integrity of the whole thing as well. Once you go above deck line, even without adding an extra piece of wood the lower planks might possibly support the upper ones where they join. Eric, I'm very impressed with your persistence and ingenuity in solving the problems the kit has presented to you. You're actually doing very well with this. And don't worry about "complaining too much". The whole point of this forum is to provide encouragement, help and support in ship modelling. And if you can't complain to us, who understand, who can you complain to?

I must have missed this earlier ; Eorl, actually in English - though all the Godwinsons were half Danish on their mother's side - she was a relative by marriage of King Cnut. Nope, though I did visit Stamford Bridge in 2000. The bridge is no longer the same one (surprise, surprise!), and is probably now in a different place,a little downstream from the original one. A lot of streets in the town are named after the battle, and there'sa pub called IIRC the Swordsman. It's all but certain that the English army rode back south, just as they'd rode north - which they did in something like four days - must have all but killed the horses - I expect they would have left those ones behind and grabbed replacements from York and surrounds. As far as I've been able to discover there's no evidence at all that they were - both Harald Sigurdssen and William the Bastard decided "England's ripe for the taking - I'll take it." Harald was persuaded to invade by Harold of England's brother Tostig, who was in a snit with him for getting him removed from the Eorldom of Northumbria when Edward was king. He first went for refuge to his brother-in-law the Count of Flanders, and got him to provide a fleet with which he raided the south of England, but left when his brother arrived with an army. The he went up to Norway and did a fantastic sales job on Harald Sigurdssen and persuaded him to invade. There's more to the story, but once I get started . . . Almost certainly. Harold lost many of his best warriors at Stamford Bridge. Hastings lasted all day - and it was what Wellington later called Waterloo - "the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life." It's a bit pointless to speculate after the event, but I think Harold Godwinson was just plain unlucky. He saw off a Norwegian invasion. If that hadn't happened, he probably would have been able to see off the Norman one.

Thanks everybody for the feedback. Unfortunately the combination of old script and old language make it very difficult. Lacking anyone who can read the old script we're reduced to guesswork. So farit seems to say something like "They stood (have stood) [stundge . . ssen?] for (i.e. towards) Modon someone said eight hundred [mo. . g?] of the Turkish [ship?]" - so to m this means they wanted to go to Modon and were charged 800 of some monetary unit . I'd like to investigate this further, but at least I'm pretty sure that the answer to my original question as to whether this is a Turkish ship is yes. Jaager, you're right - those are rubbing strakes - they were quite common on carracks before 1500. The "circular attachments" look ball-shaped to me - I'm pretty sure they're not shields, but I have no idea what purpose they would serve, except perhaps for signalling or something of the sort - like the black ball that is dropped down the mast at noon on land to tell ships what the time is. Normally that netting is to deter boarders, but I can't see it being used that way at the top of a mast . . . They usually put netting over the decks in case of attack, but that's not shown here (maybe not installed in normal times?) The "stitched supplement" is a bonnet - removing it was how you decreased the area of your sail before reef-points came into use. I think this is an artist error - if you look carefully you can see at the far left (i.e. port) side of the sail there's just a bit of the seam between the mainsail and the bonnet. I think the artist just forgot to put the rest of it in. I agree about the seagoing abilities of the Turks at the time. They had been a steppe race and the sea was a bit of a mystery to them, at least at first. I seem to recall that during the siege of Constantinople (I think one earlier than their final conquest of 1453) their fleet was cobbled together from whatever they could lay their hands on, and reinforcements from one of the Italian republics were able to get past because of the inability of the Turkish ships to stop the big, modern ships coming to Constantinople's aid. However, they seem to have learnt fast -or employed people wit the knowledge and technology. I know of at least two other pictures from about the end of the 15th century showing big carracks in Turkish use - the Piri Reis map of 1513, and the picture of the Battle of Zonchio of 1499. By 1565 they were certainly in use by the Turks - the Knights of Malta captured one belonging to a high court official - possibly one of the reasons for the Turkish invasion of Malta that year. A lot of other interesting details in this picture - you can see the wedges of the mainmast, either sheaves or scuppers in the hull, at least two of them are sheaves - one for the maintack and one for the main sheet - lots of interesting rigging details including topping lifts, showing the shape of the blocks in use, the shrouds seem to be tied directly to a side rail, there'saladder to the quarterdeck which doesn't seem to quite make it all the way up, and what are those sort of grating things next to it, with "blobs" on top of the uprights? Perhaps something similar to the openwork sides of the poop superstructure? Fascinating stuff . . .

From the photos it doesn't look bad. Perhaps it looks worse in real life, I don't know. But we're always our own worst critics. Keep in mind that the deck furniture will break up the look of the deck,and it may cease to be a problem as you progress further into the build. If you're really unhappy with it and can't do anything to change it, I suppose the best thing to do is put it down to experience. But I'd say proceed with the build and see if the glaring fault that's so obvious to you now doesn't fade into the background as you go on.

I think this must be what it's all about - the clinker is supposed to hold it all together, as a shell-first ship. But I don't understand how the planks are supposed to stay in line at the join. But keep at it - I'm sure you'll sort it out.

Well, modern German for"ship" is "schiff", and we have the word "skiff" in English. I can see the bit you mean, and the first line seems to say "sie haffen stund (something) vor Modon sagt man (something something) argt hundert (something something) so al von den turken skafft(?) which seems to they were heading for Modon and it cost eight hundred something to board the Turkish ship (maybe?). Unfortunately renaissance blackletter handwriting is not my strong point. But I do think you're right that it refers to a Turkish vessel. Perhaps I should wait for Captain Hook to get back and clear it all up . . .

Looking good. I think the walnut colours look better than the mahogany, and if i had to choose, I'd probably go for Walnut A, with Walnut pot 2 coming a very close second. I'm looking forward to seeing how the veneer works.

Yes, that's the trouble. Difficult even for someone whose native tongue is modern German. Yes, Thanks for that, Captain Hook. I knew that much from my earlier reading, but I couldn't read whether it said where the ship came from. Is it stated in the text that this ship is Turkish? I just wanted some firm evidence for the nationality of the ship. If it's definitely Turkish, it's evidence for how widespread carracks were.

Can anyone help with translating the accompanying text for this picture, of a carrack used in a pilgrimage to Jerusalem in 1487? I'd always thought the crescent flag meant that it was a Muslim ship, but it seems the crescent was in fairly common use in Western heraldry, and the text might give a clue to the nationality of the ship. I learnt German for a short time when I was in school, but the elapsed time, the script and the Renaissance German make it impossible for me tomake any headway. I've managed to work out a few words, but the overall meaning is far beyond me.

The difference in religion was never a barrier to trade or even to diplomatic relations. The Byzantines, for example, made treaties with their neighbours regardless of religion - Muslim, Zoroastrian etc. It's howyou got along. And of course trade was the same. Whatever turns a profit. That the ship was built shell-first is not a surprise for the 7th century, but the size certainly is - 25 metres! That was a very big ship for the time. The "preserved length" of the 7th century Yenikapi wreck of the merchant ship YK11 (a model of which is currently being built by Woodrat) was only 9 metres.

Looking very good! Have you sorted out the deck colour yet, or are you leaving it to "percolate" in your head for a while?

Welcom to MSW, Paulo. Make sure you start a build log - it's a great way to get encouragement, help and advice. The instructions on how to start a log are here:

Welcome to MSW, Resoian. With that list of projects ahead of you, you're not going to get bored for a long long time. (Oh, and apparently taking on new things is a great way to avoid Alzheimer's ) Starting of with a half-model submarine sounds very good. I always think a timber backboard with an attractive grain is a good way to go.

Thermocles - he was the hottest member of the crew . . .

Very good idea. I don't know if there's a real risk of warping, but doing it this way will head it off if there's a chance of it happening. Also a good idea. The only suggestion I'd make is to offset the joins so they don't all land on the same set of frames.This is how it was done in the day and I think if you search "Planking shifts" (I think that's the term)you'll probably find more info. Normally there was a repeating pattern of three strakes, so every fourth strake was the same (if that makes sense). And it might be possible to make scarph joints between the planks instead of butt joints. However, I'd be wary of doing that - Because of the overlap in scarph joints, they might shorten your strakes so they don't fit the ship. You're going well, despite the confusing instructions. Keep up the good work.

Very nice work.

Just returning to this build after a while. You're doing beautiful work -getting very close to complete.