Louie da fly
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Thanks for the likes and comments. Nikiforos, the picture is a "13th-century manuscript illustration of a scene from the 11th-century First Crusade. Within the initial 'E' is a ship carrying the Italian-Norman nobleman Bohemund of Taranto (c.1058-1111), and Italian bishop Dagobert of Pisa (died 1105), as they sail for Apulia in Italy. Bohemond was one of the leaders of this first crusade by Christian Europe to gain territory in the Holy Land. Bohemund founded a Norman monarchy in Antioch. Daimbert, with Bohemund's support, became Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. The text is Old French. Artwork from a 1250s French edition of 'Histoire d'Outremer' by medieval chronicler William of Tyre (c.1130-1186)." I've installed the windlass - twice. The first time it was too far aft and didn't provide enough room for the first oarsman or two. So I dissolved the glue with isopropanol and drilled some more holes in the deck for the pins, and moved it forward, closer to the pseudopation (forecastle). It looks a little cramped for access to the pseudopation, but hey, it's a ship and sailors are good at getting into small spaces and around obstacles. I've also finally glued the spur in place on the bow. The model is getting complete enough to do this at last. I have yet to install the cardboard brackets which represent iron ones, connecting the spur to the wales either side of the bow. Probably in the next post. And I need to find a good place to stow the windlass bars, and make a couple of little ladders for the crew to access the pseudopation either side of the windlass. Lots of little details still to do before I can do things like add the lower oars, masts etc. And I've yet to summon up courage to make the 50 upper bank oarsmen. In fact, due to designing as I went along, there'll be only 44 of them because the poop deck ended up longer than in the original drawings, which didn't allow enough room for the "tent" and the steersmen. With the longer poop I've had to sacrifice the last three pairs of upper oars aft. Not much I can do about it so I just have to live with it. If I ever did a dromon Mark II I'd allow for this and make the ship just that bit longer, but it's not worth doing just for that. Steven
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Hi, I just came across this link which I hope is of interest. http://clandonald-heritage.hmstudiosllc.com/the-galley/ It's Scottish rather than Irish, but you might find it useful, particularly the sculpture with the ship on it. Unfortunately, there's no information on the date or origin of this artefact, but it's certainly very interesting.The towers on the castle look 14th century to me, and if the thing above the ship is a helmet, as I believe it to be, it is of a type (known as a barrel helm)which began to see use about 1250 and stayed in use for about 100 years. The text is rather partisan, and probably should be taken with a pinch of salt. But it brings up several references to Gaelic galleys before the advent of the Vikings. Oh, and following up on the seal shown in the above article, I discovered another link, with even more pictures of, and information about Gaelic (specifically Scottish) galleys - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alasdair_Óg_of_Islay And following up on Pinterest, some more pics, at https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/92112754860158326/ and if you click on the more interesting images they take you to subsequent pages with more ships of the same type. Hope this helps, Steven
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Greg, that's already looking good. I'm looking forward to another of your amazing builds. By the way, what size drill bit did you use for all those holes? Steven
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Looking really good, George. The quality of work, particularly at such a small scale, is really impressive. Steven
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It's very annoying to have to re-learn lessons you thought you'd already learned. In this case - butt-joints aren't strong and will fail at the most inconvenient time! I supported the forecastle on two uprights set into the corners of the forecastle substructure (underneath) and standing on the gunwale with butt-joints. I was working on the third support, a knee attached to the stempost, when I knocked the forecastle and it came off! One upright stayed with the forecastle, the other stayed with the gunwale. So I've had to re-jig it all and put pinned joints in place of the butt joints. And to head off future disasters I've made pin-joints between the knee and the stempost. Serves me right for taking the "easy" way out. Actually, it's just as well because the forrard part of the forecastle was too low - it was resting on the delivery pipe for the Greek Fire siphon instead of allowing a small space below it. So, all good, but I should have done it right the first time😠. Steven
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And Nikiforos is "the bearer of victory". Rather appropriate, I think. Regarding AL - well, I've never made a wooden ship from a kit, so haven't had any dealings with them. Sorry to hear about the problem with the plans, but I think Mark's advice is good. And that you're kit-bashing means you're already half-way to the Dark Side (scratch-building) . . .😉 Steven
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Nikiphoros, what you've done so far looks good. The lack of plans is a bit of a problem - have you been in touch with AL to let them know they're missing? I should think they'll send them to you if that's the case (though I haven't any experience with them, I believe they're a reputable company and should be willing to help). I couldn't find the Web reference to the Caboteur nomme Sambouck that you mentioned. Do you have a link I could click on to find it? Just as a heads-up before you start making one, as far as I'm aware coffins at that time were shaped like this wider at one end than at the other, and with a lid like a "gabled roof". You may be able to re-arrange the contents of the boat so the mast won't have to be shifted, which is what I think they'd have done at the time. Otherwise the boat just won't be able to sail - the wind forces will be out of balance. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to further progress. Steven
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Yes, not problem, and certainly not irretrievable. As I understand it, this is the first layer of planking, so after a bit of bog and sanding, you get a second go at it, and can make it better in light of your experience first time through. I stuffed up (in my own opinion) on my dromon planking and it didn't have a second layer so I was stuck with it. But in the long run it wasn't as bad as all that and I was able to accept it and move on, and determined to do better on the next build. Steven
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Thanks for all the likes and the supportive comments. Here is the windlass; End pieces with fake bolts inserted. I made hem out of carved bits of wood: Then cut them off to just show the "bolt heads". The bolts to fix the windlass to the deck are made, painted and in place. Bars made and in place, and "bolt heads" painted black. All ready to put in place on the deck of the ship. As the windlass won't be in use, I'll be putting the bars in "storage" when the ship is on display. Steven
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More progress on the windlass. I've cut the square holes for the bars, and drilled holes for the pins/bolts holding the windlass to the deck. These will be made from tiny brass pins I got years ago - can't remember where, and I've no idea where I'll be able to get replacements if I need them again). As I can't get drill bits bigger than 0.38mm (too small) or smaller than 0.8mm (too big), I used one of the little pins as a drill bit. It's got a sharp pyramidal head which acts quite to drill holes. I've used it to drill the holes for the fake bolts holding the frame together, plus the ones in the ends of the spindle for the pegs to keep it in place. The pegs will also be made from brass pins; I'd intended to use them for the fake bolts as well but it's all too fiddly and I've decided instead to use wood or bamboo painted to look like iron. Steven
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That's a beautiful model, beautifully executed. Strange that the tower was so disliked by artists and architects when it was first built, as to our eyes it is a thing of beauty. But the writer Guy de Maupassant hated it so much he always ate lunch at the base of the tower, because it was the only place in Paris from which he couldn't see it. I've been up to the first level, but no higher (I chickened out). Steven
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I don't know the answer to your question myself, but it would help others answer it if you specify the geographical area and time period (probably only to the nearest century) you wish to know about. There is certainly information available on the subject, but I'm not the one with the information to hand. Steven
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I take my hat off to you, sir. That is some seriously beautiful work. Steven
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Actually, I think it's me that's derailing my own thread. Must get back to the build log. Here's current progress on the windlass. I think the central section of the "barrel" needs a bit of work to make the shape more consistent. It seems to be bulging outward a bit in the middle. Now I have to put in the square holes to take the bars and some way of fixing the windlass to the deck - probably pins of some sort - plus fake bolts holding the halves of the housing together. On the photos you can see the pilot holes for them. Speaking of which, some breaking news - I managed to buy 0.38mm drill bits in Ballarat! Amazing! Unfortunately I don't have a precise enough drill mechanism to use them . . . (Note to self - must add to wishlist . . . ). I've also done up a spreadsheet for myself with a sequence of the next things to do/make, so I don't do stuff I then have to undo because it gets in the way of doing something else. In particular, things that can be done before I glue the lower bank of oars in place, and things that will have to wait till afterwards. Steven
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Oh, there's still any amount of guesswork and speculation involved in this model. Questions to which there are no known answers and never likely to be. But without a time machine, there's nobody who can tell me my guesses are wrong . . . Yes, the history of Armenia is fascinating, particularly Cilician Armenia. When I was doing mediaeval re-enactment - portraying a Varangian in Imperial service - I researched several of the neighbouring cultures which Byzantium encountered, including Armenia, for the benefit of my fellow Varangian re-enactors, and put up a web-page with what I'd found - http://www.angelfire.com/empire/egfroth/Armenians.html . It's only a rough overview and many of the pictures have vanished, but it gives some idea of what a vital and interesting culture they had. Steven
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I'm trying to get this as accurate as possible for both time and place. For example, though it certainly has its qualities, the model on the postage stamp that Messis so kindly sent an image of does have a couple of anachronisms - - the CHI ROH (X and P superimposed) symbol on the after sail is too early for a middle Byzantine dromon and the cross with the repeated letter B is too late. However, these things are probably only important to picky people like me.😉 Steven
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Agreed. I think I'd stick to simple crosses - perhaps going as far as a cross potent - but certainly not "Maltese", flory or moline, for fear of their "Latinness" confusing the issue. But even the potent cross is on the coat of arms of the crusader kingdom of Jerusalem . . . Steven
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What is this type of rig called.
Louie da fly replied to BANYAN's topic in Masting, rigging and sails
This has been a fascinating discussion which has, I think, added to the sum total of knowledge on rigs of this period. "Steamer rig" seems a very appropriate name for a sail plan that I'm sure most of us didn't know existed, or when and why. Steven -
That's right, but the end of each arm of a cross moline is like a fleur de lis, but missing the spike.
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Brilliant picture, as usual. This attack occurred when she was attached to the British Pacific Fleet (otherwise known as the "Forgotten Fleet"), which I didn't even know existed until about a year ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Formidable_(67) "The British fleet carriers with their armoured flight decks were subject to heavy and repeated kamikaze attacks, but they proved highly resistant, and returned to action relatively quickly. The USN liaison officer on Indefatigable commented: "When a kamikaze hits a US carrier it means 6 months of repair at Pearl [Harbor]. When a kamikaze hits a Limey carrier it's just a case of 'Sweepers, man your brooms'" (Wikipedia entry on the BPF) Steven
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Looking good. Don't worry about the "dirty marks" - they can be sanded off, and as you gain more experience there'll be fewer of them. Keep up the good work. Looks like you're enjoying yourself - which is what it's all about. Steven
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Thanks for the likes and for the advice. I think I've been worrying too much - from the posts above, the lack of a pawl isn't a major issue after all. Nikiphoros, I looked up the Morea's heraldry and you're right - unlike the knights of Aviz, the Morea's cross (under Geoffrey de Villehardoin, the Frankish chronicler of the Fourth Crusade) is a cross moline. Steven
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
Louie da fly replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
Knowing the amount of effort you put into ship research, is such a thing humanly possible?☺️ Steven- 993 replies
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I'd never heard of the knights of Aviz. So I looked them up. Though their cross is similar to a cross moline, it's actually a cross flory/fleury - it has fleurs de lys (with an additional central "spike") at the ends. By the way the so-called "Maltese" Cross associated with the crusading Knights of St John, was used by the Byzantines and dates back to at least 200 years before the crusades. I took this photo in a 9th century (Byzantine) monastery in the Goreme valley in Kappadokia. Steven
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