allanyed

Further to the post by Jaager, a few minutes research will turn up plans of framing dispostions and scantlings from which you will find the R&S for different ships and eras. You can find a number of framing distribution drawings that may be similar or possibly the same as Endeavour at the RMG Collections site. Two pages to try are https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/5th rate framing plan and https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/search/6th rate framing plan For scantlings that also give the R&S, look at the 1750 Establishment or Shipbuilder's Repository scantling folios where the R&S scantlings are similar for a fifth and sixth rate, 27" . You can find all the scantlings from the Establishments, the SR, and Steel in the folios in Scantlings of Royal Navy Ships from Seawatch Books. In addition to the R&S, the floor and futtock sidings are also given in the scantlngs so you can determine the siding of the wood and the spaces between to match the R&S. Allan

I understand a challenge, but why go with an inaccurate, poorly designed kit when there are several brands that offer accurately designed and great quality materials, Syren, Model Shipways offerings from David Antscherl's designs and Vanguard? Allan

I print on label paper so I have no need to glue the drawing onto wood. Just peel of the backing and stick on the wood. Paper that is wet with glue can stretch and kink at times whereas label paper is much easier to work. Allan

Rod, If you really want to fix this you would not be the first modeler to rip out the awful materials most kit makers provide and replace it with more appropriate material. Whatever you are happy with is all that matters in the end. Allan

Great point Johnny. I believe the deck was 3" thick so it would likely take some time to get it down to a need for replacement. Probably had more problems with replacing due to rot before thickness became an issue. Allan

I really like that you decided to forego some of the stuff from the kit, especially the cannon and associated parts. Of the three barrels you show, your 3D printed are the best IMHO. The kit barrel is really strange looking compared to reality. The Syren barrel is really quite fine, but with the 3D barrel I know it is the easiest way to have the cipher on the barrel on the 3D drawing and thus on the 3D printed barrel compared to trying to make and attach one to turned brass barrels. It is also the least expensive way to have an accurate barrel made. FYI, when I had several sizes of barrels 3D printed, the trunnions were part of the printing so they were the exact proper length and no need to make them separately. Have you, (or any member reading this) had Blomefield guns made with a 3D printer in resin? I just wonder how the breech ring came out in the process. Allan

Waldemar, Thanks for your response. Sorry for the confusion. I meant that the Navy Board style and room and space are not the same thing. R&S is a dimension, not a style as you wrote: From Franklin it appears that R&S dimensions apply to both NB and fully framed construction. His descriptions are indeed highly detailed. Cheers Allan

Hi Waldemar, I may be wrong on this but I don't think R&S has anything to do with style such as fully framed style or Navy Board styles which are two different things. The reason I mention this is that I had only seen R&S referenced as a dimension not a style. The fully framed style as shown in the Marquardt framing disposition drawing above is nothing like what most refer to as Navy Board style framing. FWIW the R&S for many/most British ships can be found in contemporary contracts, the Establishments, The Shipbuilder's Repository and Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture. Allan

Hi Jaager Do you think the different types of wood the museum names for each deck might be from past times and southern yellow pine that you mention would be the wood they used when she was rebuilt in modern times? The reason I ask is that the use of two different species on the same deck that they describe had not occurred to me even though this was not uncommon on British warships. I studied the John Lord cross section drawing which anyone building a model of Connie should reference but it does not appear to show the species of the deck planking, only the ceiling, hull planking, treenails above and below the water line and the deck beams. The verbal description of the decking given on the museum site is below but might they have it wrong? RMG is not without errors on their site, so the Connie Museum description might be in error. Thanks Allan USS Constitution has four complete decks–spar, gun, berth, and orlop–that combine to make her about the height of a four-story building. The spar deck, or top deck, was originally made from a combination of white oak planking (to support the heavy weight of the carronades) with Carolina pitch pine flanking the hatches. The gun deck just below was similarly made of a combination of white oak and pitch pine. The berth and orlop decks, however, were made exclusively of the strong yet light-weight pitch pine.

If you look at the USS Constitution museum site you will get a detailed description of the deck planking. https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2016/07/14/decks/ To quote them Holystoning In the 18th and 19th centuries, Constitution‘s sailors began their day by cleaning the ship with the unwelcome task of holystoning the decks. A hand pump wet the deck with seawater, and men with buckets cast sand over the planks. The watch then scoured away the previous day’s dirt and grime with soft white stones and stiff brushes. Some believe “holystoning” got its name because scrubbing sailors looked as if they were kneeling in prayer. Smaller stones were called “prayer books” and bigger stones were called “bibles.” This was the “most disagreeable duty in the ship,” wrote Samuel Leech, a sailor aboard during the War of 1812, especially “on cold, frosty mornings.” Once finished, the men rinsed the decks and left them to dry in the sun, or flogged them dry using bits of rope or a “squilgee,” a T-shaped implement with a leather-edged crosspiece. This constant abrasion of the wooden decks left them a pale cream color and “so clean that a handkerchief might be swept over them without soiling the whiteness.” If the wood is light in color, use it as is. If it is too dark, and as you want to look authentic forget using the wood that they provided in the kit and get some holly planking materials or some stock and cut your own planks. This will be the closest in color to what the decks looked like without need to stain the wood. The weather decks were a combination of mostly white oak but a few strakes of pitch pine around the hatches. Photos of pitch pine and holly are below. Allan

Thanks for posting the drawings Waldemar! On what ship and year are those drawings based? Are the drawings of a merchant vessel or naval vessel? A good question or two may be, was Endeavour framed as a merchant ship or like a typical Royal Navy vessel, and what are the framing differences, if any? If like a navy vessel, there is no room between frames for a deck beam even at the top of the top timbers. Very interesting topic!1 Allan

Shipman, You make a sensible and arguable point, but I am with Gary, I get joy out of doing the innards. I am still baffled as to why I do it myself at times😀 MAYBE on a future project I will leave off sections of framing on one side to show those internal things for others to see. As with so many things with this hobby of ours, to each his own. If I am building for myself, saving some time and money on materials are not parts of the equation. On the other hand when I am building for a client and there is a time constraint, then POB and no internals works for them and for me. Allan

Chris, I discussed the need for Volume I with Mike the other day and getting with the printer is on his to-do list. Allan

Follow Druxey's advice in researching the books he mentions. The space between frames (an inch or two) precludes any possibility of the deck beams going between them. From Goodwin on page 66, the clamps were sometimes scored an inch deep where the beams rested. In addition the beam ends were sometimes wrapped with tar soaked flannel or paper, or had a notch scored about 2 inches deep to help prevent rot. These features will not be seen if the waterway is put in place, but something you may want to do for your own satisfaction. Allan

rvchima, Maybe it was just a misuse of a word, but copper sheathing did not have rivets which would protrude, but rather 1/4" nails with 1/2" heads that would make dents into the sheathing. Yve's sheathing shows what look to be nails, not rivets and they are properly sized and spaced. I believe there would have been some nails inside the periphery of the edges, but still in all, this is one of very few model sheathing jobs on the build logs that is very well done. Allan

The VdV painting shows what look like pins but I can only see one line belayed to these. Also the painting is a Dutch ship, not French, so maybe no correlation to LSR in this particular case. I agree that the bowling pins on the model look like, well, bowling pins, not belaying pins. I wonder if they are originals or were they added at some later date? Is this the 1720 model at the Musee National de la Marine? While she is gorgeous in many ways, the rigging and painting look as if MAYBE she was renovated at some point. The belaying of the line to the cleat on the mast is rather odd for one example. Allan

For anyone that missed this broadcast do look for a repeat. The entire modern expedition is fascinating and the collection of contemporary photos and movies made by the Endurance crew is awesome, including her last days as her rigging tumbled to the deck before sinking below the ice. Stories on how the crew survived, eventually eating the sled dogs to keep from starving, are heart rending. Allan

Congrats on your first build completion. Far and away better than most first time builds, mine included. One thing of note for the future, the knee of the head should be tapered to about 4" at the bobstay piece on the Swan class and similar size ships. Yours looks to be the same width (10"?) which would be the thickness where it meets the stem. I assume this is a design error from the kit manufacturer. Allan

Looking good! One thing to consider for the future, the head ledges on the coamings sit on top of the coaming pieces rather than the other way around and are rounded versus flat. Out of curiosity, did the kit instruct the configuration you used? It would be a shame that they did not research properly to have this done correctly. Allan

Tom, The rigging changed in 1805, so are you looking for prior to the change or at the time of Trafalgar? MAYBE the rigging was not changed on Victory, but you have a choice. Lees explains in detail how the footropes, lifts and braces are rigged on the crossjack. He goes into detail on the slings and trusses as well including mentioning that chain slings could be used from 1793 if requested. Chain trusses came later, (1850) Allan

I second and third the above. What you show in the photos is indeed thread and ships did not use thread nor should a model ship. Miniature rope can be made by you or purchased from several sources and looks sooooo much better than thread. Allan

Kostas, I agree with you that you were better off to remove the stubs of the bulkheads. The moulded dimension of the top of the top timbers of the Victory is about 5.5" to 7" depending if at the waist, QD, or FC so about 0.06" (1.5mm) at your scale. I love that you are not trying to show treenails on the deck planking as they would have to be 0.008", nearly impossible to make and look good. Your gratings look far better than seen in the majority of other kit builds. Did you make these are they from the kit? It is hard to tell from the photos, but the openings would be about 0.03" (0.8mm) or less at your scale. These look to be maybe a little large, but hard to tell from the photos. Will you be following the planking tutorials here at MSW when you plank the hull? I look forward to your next progress posting. Allan

Daniel, You mention you could not find the plans on properly planking the hull. There are two that are excellent and can be found here at MSW in the Articles folder. https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/LiningOffYourHullPlankingTutorialAndFan.pdf and https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/APrimerOnPlanking.pdf Allan

Welcome to MSW Luke. I hope you enjoy your time here with your 40,000+ new friends. Allan

"Blacken It" was indeed the best in my experience. While I still use brass at times I have gone to copper whenever possible as it can be blackened in situ with liver of sulfur and I am very happy with 3D printed cannons in black resin as the detailing is often superior to turned cannon, especially at smaller scales. The only problem I have with the 3D parts is my own lack of skill in making the 3D drawings. Allan