allanyed

Karkka, I know this is a first build for you and you can expect some mistakes to happen. Hopefully the advice you receive from the members here will be taken in good spirit as it surely is given in good spirit. I hate to say it, but I would remove all of the planks and start over. If you used aliphatic glue, some water and/or alcohol will loosen up the glue. If you used cyanoacrylate, acetone should dissolve it. Then, before starting over, it would be good to thoroughly read the article you posted earlier. Pages 15-22 of the article explains about starting at the garboard plank and working up, but also shows how to mark out the strake lines on the frames and how they have to be tapered. It is not an easy thing to do and takes practice, but if you follow any of the planking tutorials here at MSW in detail, you will have success. Cheers Allan

I read Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth series including the last one The Evening and the Morning which was a prequel to the series and covered Wessex, North Umbria, and Mercia so this period of time is intriguing to me. I did watch The Last Kingdom and enjoyed it thoroughly but will download Cornwell's books and give the books a try as well. I do appreciate and thank you for your guidance "Floki" Allan

Viking vessels never held an interest to me until lately, having become engrossed in the Viking TV series (in spite of the gratuitous battles.) Well done Floki (Gustaf Skarsgard) Allan

I really like that you are not adding sails. They are very hard to make to scale, even at 1:48, and in the end they will block the view of a lot of your beautiful rigging. Allan

Looking good Don!!! Just remember to make sure the grating ledges run athwartships when you put them in place in the coamings. Allan

Brett, what ship are you working on? A quick fix is do not use Mondfeld and get a copy of Lees' Masting and of Rigging English Ships of War1625 to 1860. In appendix 1 He begins with the length and breadth of the vessel. The initial formula varies a bit depending on the year the vessel was launched. The dates he uses are 1627 to 1669, 1670 to 1710, 1711-1718, 1719 to 1772, 1773 to 1793, 1794 to 1814, 1815 to 1835, 1836 to 1860. Once you have the length of the mast from the initial formula, it goes to mast, yards, sprits, and boom diameters, then lengths, then standing and running rigging. He ends with block sizes. There are 7 pages of formulas/ratios and is quite complete. As Mark points out above, a lower mast with a diameter of 24" has a lower stay that is 12" in circumference. There is also the same information here at MSW for free, and with one time period exception it is more accurate than Mondfeld. This is a spread sheet by Dan Vadas in the articles data base. Caution here though. While he used the formulas from Lees and made an easy to use spread sheet, his initial formula for the masts' lengths for the period 1670 to 1710 is completely wrong so everything that follows is wrong as well for this time period. Lees book would be the go to for this time period. If anyone has access to the original spread sheet done by Dan, it should not be too hard to fix this time period with the correct formula. For rigging details in general, Lees has been my go to for a long time as it is well written and has detailed drawings to go with the text. Allan

Sounds like you are trying to edge set a straight plank that has not been preshaped. The easiest fix for you may be to soak the plank then TEMPORARILY pin it to the frames and let it dry for a day, or hit it with a hair dryer to speed it along. The site you posted is nice but you might want to look at the planking tutorials here at MSW. Allan

Those words on sculpture are attributed to Buonarotti - “The sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material.” Most know him more by his first name, Michelangelo. Allan

For a first time build, maybe it is better if you follow the manual even if it is wrong. At least you get some good practice and will learn some new things. The green line in the picture below is what you say the kit shows for the planking line. The red line is what it should look like. For the future, it would be good to study some books on how these boats and ships were actually built, then study the kits that are out there that are faithful to actual practice. I have no recent experience with kits, but from reading about them here at MSW, the best ones seem to be designed by Chuck Passaro, David Antscherl, and Chris Watton and his team. For a comparison of a ship's boat like yours, look at pictures of the boat kit designed by Chuck and you will see what it supposed to look like. One example of a build log that you may want to look at is https://modelshipworld.com/topic/22234-18th-century-pinnace-by-delf-finished-model-shipways-124-scale-small/?tab=comments#comment-663400 Of course if you have the tools, you can always take the plunge and build from scratch. Allan

Once the frame is cut out but not beveled, you can mark the bevel on the inside by measuring with a caliper from the paper plan and mark points along the inside of the frame every inch or so then draw a line to connect the dots. I try to stay just outside the line then finish up once the frames are fixed in place. Might be some easier way and I for one would love to hear about it! Allan

Hi Karkka With the angle of the photo it may difficult to see the curvature. If it is a straight line it is not right. For the time of the Bounty, at least, the planks don't lie on a horizontal line, same for the tops of the frames . The pics I posted are contemporary so can be trusted to be correct. Occre is not famous for accuracy in the design of their kits, but I think they do have the curvature based on your first photo. Cheers Allan

Karkka Can you tell us what kit this is? If I understand correctly, the heights of the frames are not the same height which is as it should be. They should be higher as you go forward and aft from the (0) station at the point of the widest breadth. The top planks should follow this curve, not be in a straight line like the red arrow you show in the first photo. Look at any body plan (one sample is below) and you will see that the stations vary in height. Subsequently the tops of the frames will follow this same line as the stations. Note that if the strips (planks) provided in the kit are the same width their entire length they will need to be shaped along their length if they are to lay correctly. Unfortunately most kits seem to forget this, which leads to planking on the model that is unlike anything that ever existed on a real ship or boat. From the photos you posted from the kit, it is pretty clear they show planking that is unrealistic. A contemporary drawing of a boat from NMM is below showing planking as was actually done so may be of some help to you. Allan

When I cut and paste the site in the post it comes right up on top and then just click on the arrow in the middle. Hope this helps.

Oh how I miss my basement shop with enough room to build at 1:24. Then again, the details had better be right, as are yours, otherwise mistakes would be glaringly apparent. Allan

BELLO!!!! Cutting the mortises for the gun port sills as you go and having them aligned perfectly is beyond what us mere mortals can achieve. For most of us it is best to raise the frames, then mark out and cut the ports. I am anxious to see if you decide to make them as you go and how these turn out and hopefully we can all say, "see, it CAN be done!" Ciao amico Allan

Pages 119-120 of Volume II in the TFFM 1767-1780 series by David Antscherl has a very good drawing showing a perspective of the great cabin looking aft and describes the internal upper counter planking and lockers in text and additional drawings. This would be applicable for any Swan class vessel, which includes Fly, 1776. In general, anyone building a model ship, especially a Swan Class ship would benefit greatly from having this series. Allan

Sorry folks but this one has always irked me. (I know I am a pain in the neck) A copse is a small group of trees so a "copse of trees" is literally a small group of trees of trees, thus redundant. And yes, I still say a copse of trees at times because most people don't know what a copse is. Again, sorry for the grammar lesson and taking this thread even further off track. And..... if anyone has an interest in the US Civil War and has not visited Gettysburg, it should be on their bucket list. Allan

AND, the chop sticks are easy to split multiple times with a razor or scalpel, then run through a draw plate for tree nails!!!! Allan

I agree with Eberhard. I have what I consider one of my best efforts from 15 years ago and over all very happy with it , BUT, every time I see her name on the stern made of wooden letters I want to tear them off and paint the name on as it should have been done in 1776. Maybe a nice little side project 😀 (note: No names should be on the stern before 1771 or after about 1782 - one of the mistakes, in the movie Master and Commander. Allan

For three or four pounders they would likely have been 4 feet 6 inches long after about 1743 so at 1:64 about 0.84" long. The bore, which looks quite large on your photos would be between 3.1 and 2.8 inches in diameter depending on if these were four pounders or three pounders, thus about 0.05" diameter or 0.044" diameter. The four pounder minion diameter had a bigger ratio to its length compared to a three pounder brass minion given both at 4 feet 6 inches long. As to the scale of the carriage, they do appear to be much too large as others have already pointed out. The trunnions in your photo look to be about 3 times too long, but this might be to accommodate the oversized carriages. Model Expo has barrels 20mm long with wooden carriages if you cannot make your own. I have no idea if these are appropriate for 1799 but may be an acceptable alternative compared to those that were included in your LN kit. Allan

Overall, the right grating looks much better than the left and much better than many kit gratings. Great start!! There is really no need to make a jig. Errors in the spacings in the jig will be transferred to the grating as can be seen with the variation of the widths of the grating ledges and a few of the grating battens in your example on the right. Allan

What kerf do you plan to use? For 1:48, I used a 0.045 which gives just over two inch squares. My blade is a three inch diameter blade with about 200 teeth for the circumference of the blade and is a jewelers' slotting blade. As you are cutting wood, a good quality blade is suggested but it does not have to be a super expensive blade. The key is making the board with the slot for the blade and guide. The guide has to be about 0.043 wide and should be 0.045" from the edge of the guide and the edge of the blade. Note that the guide should be a couple thousandths smaller than the width of the slot. A metal guide is ideal, but I used boxwood with no difficulties. It should also be waxed to prevent the piece being slotted from binding and yawing. Pics were recently posted in the Charles Galley build log on June 1 if you want to follow this method which follows actual practice, but you can also opt for the cross hatch type found in most kits. I have never had success with the latter method, but I think other members have so you may want to give it a try as well. Allan

I have been following Druxey's build log on the 28 foot American cutter (which a fantastic log with lots of details) and he shows a faux burl finish on what will be the display base board for the model. He recommended a specific book which I will likely get, but I found the following website video that gives step by step instructions on creating a burl finish on a plain piece of wood. Nothing exotic or expensive is needed. https://www.google.com/search?q=How+to+make+Faux+burl+finish+on+plywood&oq=How+to+make+Faux+burl+finish+on+plywood&aqs=edge..69i57.7636j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_LT3HYOiwI_CD_Qbap5HoCg15 Allan

Creating the faux burl finish fascinated me so did a little research and found the following. I have no idea if it is a similar process to what Druxey is using, but it explains at least one method in detail. https://www.google.com/search?q=How+to+make+Faux+burl+finish+on+plywood&oq=How+to+make+Faux+burl+finish+on+plywood&aqs=edge..69i57.7636j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_LT3HYOiwI_CD_Qbap5HoCg15 Allan

Rick, I have tried piano wire but I can not easily solder or blacken it in my experience. Plus, it is carbon steel so will rust if not blackened or otherwise treated. How do you blacken it and solder/weld the ends and keep it from rusting? Maybe worth another try. Thanks Allan