allanyed

I know very well the work that you have done and the willingness to share with the members is stupendous. I think the fifteen shown above are more than anyone else has offered in any pattern, let alone just one pattern. If others feel we need additional calibers/lengths, it would be great to see them provide them to the membership as you are doing. The more the better. You mentioned the differences in the Armstrong and Armstrong Frederick, members should know that you also changed the badge to George 3 on the AF pattern compared to George 2 on the Armstrong pattern as it should be. Allan

Chaos For many, it is a good idea to study contemporary information to compare with what a kit offers. Research by members here often surpasses the research done by many kit designers and they are willing to share their knowledge so a great source of help. Regarding terminology, the following may help a little. Allan

So am I. My oldie is near the end of its life as I used it for milling for quite a few years before I could buy a mill so the bearings of course are well worn. With a new press on my wish list your review will be helpful. Thanks in advance Gregory Allan

Hi Richie For a first build it looks like you have taken a lot of pride in your work. Learning how to get great planking takes practice and yours is really pretty good, especially as it appears you took care to reduce the breadth of the planks as they approach the bow. The species of wood and thickness of the material will have an effect as well. For ship's boats planking my go-to is holly. From W.E. Mays book on ship's boats, the bottom planking was typically about 1.125" thick on longboats. (0.6mm at 1:48) I tend to go a tad heavier so I have some material for sanding the planked hull. Allan

Beautiful build! Probably just terminology but ships' boats did not usually have cap rails. They did have gunwales that were quite thick to support the parts where the oars sat. Below is a group of typical gunwales from plans at RMG. You can see them in the RMG Collections site by typing in the ZAZ number in the search box. You can see how thick the gunwale is on the contemporary Medway longboat model below and at RMG as well. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections Allan

A very warm welcome to MSW Barry. Allan

Hi Phil, How do they do when you form the octagonal portions in the center of the yards and the octagonal and square sections on the masts? Thanks Allan

Did you spile or prebend the planks via the method in Chuck Passaro's video series on You Tube? If they are pre-shaped you don't need to force the planks or any clamps. Forcing the planks (edge bending) usually causes lifting and is a difficult thing to fix. The ship's boats in the photos below were planked without the use of clamps. Allan

Welcome to MSW. Looking forward to your build log. Allan

Mal A different take on this, hope you don't mind. Most, not all, contemporary models do not have sails. I have done models with sails if requested but more often than not do not include them as they block much of the details of the rigging lines. Look at photos of rigged models on the RMG Collections site to see what you like best, then go for it. If you do go with sails keep in mind there is no cloth in existence that is to scale. Most kit sails look more like burlap and take away from the look, IMHO. For example, if the heaviest canvas is used for a sail it has a thread count (TC) of about 50. At 1:48 scale that is a TC of 2400. At 1:64 it would be about 3200, neither of which I have ever been able to find. Silkspan is a great alternative and there is an excellent booklet for $5 at SeaWatch Books on sail making. Volume 4 of TFFM is loaded with information on rigging a model that you may also find helpful. Allan

This is great, and thanks for all the pics. A good day for me learning yet another vessel building technique! 😀 Allan

Thanks Reverend Colonel The slots for the stringers of course makes sense, but I thought the planking would still go outboard as shown on your plans. (See below) If the planking is not attached to the frames what holds the planking together? You mentioned full size boats are built this way, do you mean stringers lie between the frames and planks like your model or are they built like the plans you posted? This is a totally new technique for me and I am curious to see more on how this all works without the planking coming apart on a full size boat. Allan

I may be wrong, but normally the frames are outboard of the stringers or risers as the planks are formed around and attached to the frames. In your photo the planking from the turn of the bilge to the top have a gap between the planking and frames so are not supported by anything. The drawing (from your post) below shows the inboard of the starboard side and the stringer can be seen as being inboard of the frames rather than outboard. Hopefully the photo below showing the riser, frames, and planking will explain better than my jibberish.😀 Allan

Well said Papa! Hi John She continues to be a lovely build, kudos. I never realized Bluenose had pear shaped deadeyes combined with round ones. I cannot find plans or photos of Bluenose or any other vessel ever having that combination. Very interesting. Allan

Thanks for posting the video Beez. Seeing the end results confirms all the bad reviews have been correct, or possibly understated. Allan

If you don't mind resin instead of wood, do a 3D drawing (or have a friend do it😀) and have it printed. Allan

Hi B.E. The model continues to look great! I really like that the rudder pintles and gudgeons are to scale unlike most other kit rudder hardware. Allan

The English term (not American) for these pieces are port rigols. These are described on page 190 in Goodwin's the Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War. Another interesting note is the Nelson chequer wherein the outside of the lids were painted black. Under Nelson's influence this became universal in the RN by the end of the 18th century. Allan

Hi What do you mean by trim? The wales are as shown on the drawing above. You can see the relative thickness of the wales and the thick stuff above and below the wales. Thick stuff is what they actually called the planks next to the wales on contracts and scantlings from Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture and The Shipbuilder's Repository 1788. In reality they were top and butt or anchor stock not straight strakes of planking but that is for another day. As to the size of the materials they supplied I thought that might be the case. They don't seem to do any research on these kinds of details so the material they provide is way out of scale. If you are looking for a realistic look, this is nothing some sanding can't fix, especially at the bow where they reduce so they are the same thickness as the rest of the planking as they reach the rabbet. The below is from a contract for a 74, so the thickness is less than would have been on Victory, the scantlings for which are given above. Still, it gives an idea on how this worked. THICKSTUFF under To have 6 Strakes of Thick stuff under the Main Wales: the Upper Edge of the Upper strake to be of 6¾ inches in Thickness the MAIN WALES lower edge of the 3rd to be 5⅝ inches & the lower edge of the sixth Strake to be 4 inches in Thickness. THICKSTUFF on To have One Strake upon the Main Wales of 6¾ inches in Thickness and 1 foot 1 ½ inches broad, the lower edge of the Strake upon MAIN WALES to be 5 ¾ inches thickness & to wear off to 4 inches thick at the Channel Wales. Allan

Hi N80fty Hard to tell from the photos but the wales look to be a bit too thick. They should stand out above the thickstuff above and below the main wales only about 2 inches (0.02" - .6mm) and about 1.5" for the middle wales. They taper in thickness at the bow to pretty much match the thickness of the strakes of thickstuff above and below the wales so they can seat in the rabbet. The below is a cross section of Boyne, a 98 gun ship circa 1810, but looking at scantlings in Steel, 1805, they match up with a 110 gun first rate as well. Nothing some sanding can't fix if you are so inclined. Allan

The wood will shrink as it dries and could take away the tight fit against adjacent planks. Some species are worse than others, but this is can be a problem with most species. I have formed wet wood on the model in the past but let it dry before gluing. I stopped this for the most part as it needs to be clamped in place and clamps often leaves dents in the wet wood that remain even once dry. Have you studied the Chuck Passaro videos on marking out the bulkheads or frames and edge bending off the model? It is really easy to do and never a worry about needing clamps or pins as the finished piece of planking will have the right shape assuming it is properly tapered as well, especially near the bow. A well made pre-shaped plank can be held in place with finger pressure with the glue of your choice for less than a minute and is done. Allan

Hi Jake The first mouth-blown cylinder technique of making sheet glass for windows was developed in Germany during the 11th century. In 1226 this technique was brought to England. Paper would not do well at sea😀 Windows, (called lights on the old ships) in the stern and galleries were likely made of glass on Mayflower as she was built several hundred years later. It was nothing like the float glass of today, and smaller panes were used as there were limits on sizes with the processes available at that time. Allan

Hi Stevinne Can you explain what this is and post a pic or two? Many thanks Allan

Why was the wood not holding it's shape? Sounds like it was still wet inside. I used an iron in the past but have gone to a hot air gun with heat settings so as to not scorch the wood. If I remove the wood from the forming jig, and it does not hold its shape I put it back and hit it with more heated air. I assume you watched the 4 part video by Chuck Passaro on edge bending. If not, it is very informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWooJ1o3cM If your planks are pre-formed you can use carpenter's glue and hold it with finger pressure for a minute or less. The piece can be maneuvered for a few seconds. CA also works very well for many members. It cures very quickly compared to PVA so less maneuvering time. Try test pieces with both and see what works best for you. If you must use pins and the pins/holes are small enough, you can drill clean holes afterwards and put in treenails. The diameter at 1:64 should be about 0.027" (0.7mm) If you are not going to treenail the planks I would avoid the use of pins. Allan

I would run a razor over as much as possible so there are only small pieces. I got in the habit of cutting fishing line as well as the rings on plastic six pack rings for soda and beer when garbage was hauled on barges back in the day and still do it to this day just in case. Turtles supposedly see the clear plastic as jelly fish and get hung up or choke on the stuff if it winds up in the water. Allan