Small Lathe

[peewee]

Hi All,

 

I am thinking of getting a smaller lathe than my faircut junior as its a little too big to keep moving on and off the bench,  what would people recommend, my thoughts are the older unimat SL or the cowells 90, i have been looking at both on ebay,

 

They would only be for turning smaller items, what are peoples thoughts and experiences, as i seem to find few users of the cowells

 

cheers

Ian 

[Q A's Revenge]

Not had one myself but from what I've read the old Unimat SL is a cracking Lathe if you can get a good one.

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

I hawe such machine :

No plstic gears. Only chuck is not easy in use.

http://www.uni-max.com.pl/kombinowana-tokarka-z-frezarka-at125-mini/d/

 

Tadeusz

[dgbot]

I know a few modelers who own them but they had to get the extra parts off of EBay and other sources.  The work done on these watchmaker lathes is very good. I have never used a Unmat but have a Sherline that I bought years ago.  Do some research and see what accessories you will need.  By using collets and engravers I have done metal turning and small delicate parts by hand.  Look around and then decide what you  will be doing with it .

David B

[thibaultron]

Tadeusz:

 

What do you use to prtect your lathe from rust, and do you lubricate the sliding surfaces, if so with what?

[Jaager]

For ways and static surfaces, I am now using Renaissance Wax.   For the threads and general lubrication, I used to use light machine oil. I had a quart from Sears that I used up.  I could find nothing like it  on line.  I guess I do not know the correct name for it,  I use mineral oil from the laxative section of a pharmacy for lubrication now.  No problems so far.  Used to be light and heavy Mineral oil available, now all I find is plain mineral oil.

 

Using a Scotch Brite Pad with WD40 works a champ to remove rust before rubbing down with the wax.

[PriceMachine&Design]

for way lube why not use ...well.. way lube  I'd recommend Mobil Vactra 2  which is available on ebay in quart bottles for as I remember around $10.00, I use this on all my cnc machines and lathe .I also use it to coat the surfaces lightly, never a rust problem.Thinking it may not be the ideal for a lathe used for mostly wood though .

Edited November 14, 2015 by PriceMachine&Design

[dgbot]

My brother in law packed up all of my power tools so I have not seen my lathe for a long time.  I used Turtle Wax after cleaning it with WD40.  I do not have the strength at the moment to dig it out for a look see.  At work we used 10w30 on the ways on the lathe there and that did the job.  When I get the strength to open my case I will be looking at this wax.

David B

[peewee]

thank you all, might add sherline to the mix, though not common this side of the water

[Tadeusz43]

Tadeusz:

 

What do you use to prtect your lathe from rust, and do you lubricate the sliding surfaces, if so with what?

 I use WD40 and I wipe excess with a paper towel.For gear I use lubricant.

Tadeusz

[rhythmslave]

I use a couple different Watchmakers lathes,  however I have started using a more robust Taig 2 lathe which I really like!  Various attachments are available like a milling tower.

 

Gary

[dgbot]

I picked up a Sherline years ago and have added collets and a jewelers tool rest with it both are very useful.

David B

[wefalck]

Peewee, it all depends, what you want to do with the lathe, i.e. what size of parts, repeatability of mounting, and whether you need screw-cutting facility.

 

My personal preference are watchmaking lathes for their precision and versatility of workholding (if you have the full range of spindle tooling). However, screw-cutting attachments are rare and expensive - I have one . The UK is not so much into ebay, compared to some other countries, so you may have to source one through model engineering or watchmaking Web-sites. There are also new ones available from China. I cannot say anything about their quality, but it is certainly lower than that of the antique ones. On the other hand, they come with an integrated power-unit. If you go for a Chinese one, I would go for the bare machine without collets and chucks, as their chucks have a metric 7 mm thread. The traditional thread is 6.82 mm x 40 tpi and you can get lots of second-hand spindle tooling. If you opt for an antique one, go for the larger so-called WW-type, as this is more rigid, unless you want to work on some really small parts, when a so-called D-bed lathe would be good enough. The D-bed type seems to be more frequent on the European market, while the WW-type is more frequent in the USA.

 

Cowells makes excellent stuff (I only have a vertical slide by them), but it comes at a price, even when second-hand. The so-call ME lathe is particularly sought after.

 

Taig and Sherline lathes are made from aluminium. I don't really know how durable their ways etc. are, but there is a lot of information on them on the Web. Sherline makes some good chucks and I have several of them, but I don't have any experience with their lathes as such. In both cases, Taig or Sherline, I would opt for the so-called WW-spindle or adaptors to take watchmakers chucks and collets due to the versatility of that spindle tooling.

 

You can find quite a bit of information on watchmaking lathes on my own Web-site below.

[Pete38]

According to the description on the Serline web site thay are "steel beds"

[GuntherMT]

According to my magnets, the bed on my Sherline is steel, or at least not aluminum!

[wefalck]

Well, the bodies (beds, cross-slides, tables, et.c) of both, Sherline and Taig lathes are, to the best of my knowledge, made from extruded aluminium profiles. The bearing surfaces may well have steel parts screwed on, but my knowledge of these machines is not so intimate. I think though the Taig cross-feed is all aluminium. Both manufacturers seem to use brass gib-strips, so that you have a brass-aluminium or brass-steel friction.

 

The surface hardness of aluminium is less than that of cast-iron and steel, though the Sherline machines use an anodisation process that probably make them more scratch resistant. Therefore, the machines may not be as durable as machines made from cast-iron or steel.

[GuntherMT]

Well, the bodies (beds, cross-slides, tables, et.c) of both, Sherline and Taig lathes are, to the best of my knowledge, made from extruded aluminium profiles. The bearing surfaces may well have steel parts screwed on, but my knowledge of these machines is not so intimate. I think though the Taig cross-feed is all aluminium. Both manufacturers seem to use brass gib-strips, so that you have a brass-aluminium or brass-steel friction.

 

The surface hardness of aluminium is less than that of cast-iron and steel, though the Sherline machines use an anodisation process that probably make them more scratch resistant. Therefore, the machines may not be as durable as machines made from cast-iron or steel.

 

Ok, perhaps my last post wasn't clear.  The bed of the Sherline lathe is one solid piece of ferrous metal.  The bearing surfaces are not screwed on, they are an integral machined part of the bed, and it is 100% not aluminum.

[wefalck]

Fair enough, Sherline seems to have changed their specifications then - for the better ! The Web-site pictures, however, still look like black anodisation. I am wondering what they do to the iron/steel surfaces then.

[Matle]

I reckon you should try to find a second hand watchmakers lathe. They are excellent for modelling needs. 

I'm looking for a small lathe myself, and found an ancient watchmakers lathe (Boley). Haven't decided whether to buy or not, as it lacks clamp and motor for driving. Anyone who knows if it's a reasonable idea to add a motor to run it (i.e. will as reasonable handy guy make it run reasonably well) or if I should try to find something more modern?

[Jaager]

Pure theory here:   Make sure there is no play with the ways and the cross slide.  If it was a quality machine when new and has been well maintained, it is likely better than most units now being made.  Make sure it has standard specs for attachments like 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks and collet chucks and Jacobs chucks and live centers. 

 

If it was a popular unit, there may be 3rd party sources for replacement motors - I am fortunate that Unimat does.

 

The max length you can mount is something to consider.  

 

A straight up lathe is great for making other tools.  For this purpose, it is pretty much irreplaceable.

If it is not convertible to a milling machine, the functions it can perform in wooden ship construction are not as many as a lot of other machines - masts, yards, cannon barrels,  barrel barrels,  windlass drums,  wheels, capstans, mostly.  It is not even vital for these, as there are other ways to get there. 

[wefalck]

The Sherline motor and controller units are good buys (at least were 10-15 years ago, when I bought mine). I am driving my watchmakers lathes and one milling machine with them.

 

Boley WW-style lathes are compatible with all 8 mm watchmakers lathe equipment. There may an issue with the thread on collets and in draw-bars. However, in recent years taps and dies for these rather special threads have become available again from model engineering suppliers, so that can be solved. You can also buy again collets and chucks originating in China at a reasonable price. They may be at the limit for high-precision watchmaking, but certainly are good enough for model engineering needs. Be aware, that the Chinese have decided to put a metric 7 mm thread on the spindle tooling of their watchmakers lathes, rather than the standard 6.85 mm x 40 t.p.i. thread. Howver, the Chines also make spindle tooling with the 'normal' thread.

 

If you are looking at a Boley D-bed lathe (the bed has 20 mm diameter with a flat on top) make sure to stay clear of the ones with 6.5 mm spindle bore. They have been rare at all times (never understood, why Boley and a few other manufacturers made them, considering that the same manufacturers also made 6 mm lathes, which became pretty much a standard together with the 8 mm lathes). Spindle tooling with 6.5 mm diameter is very difficult to find second-hand and virtually non-existent in the modern after-sales market.

[druxey]

I agree that one should avoid WW lathes that are other than 8mm or 10mm. Boley and Levin are both top-notch machines. However, I found that the Levin with its collet-holding tailstock is more practical. (A Boley with collet-holding tailstock rather than a runner is very hard to find.) And, as wefalk suggests, the D-bed rather than the 'Reform' style lathe is preferable.

 

For motor mounts, there are cast aluminum stands by Borel that hold both lathe and motor. All these items may be found on eBay. Remember to budget for a nice chuck and/or collets!

[wefalck]

Good point about the Boley/Boley-Leinen 'Reform' lathes. Their bed looks similar to the WW-bed, but is actually smaller. While the spindle tooling is the same 8 mm tooling, anything that goes onto the bed will only work with one or the other.

 

Another word on 'collecting' accessories. While they are compatible, headstocks and tailstocks may not be fully interchangeable. They were produced in batches and individual pairs of head- and tailstocks carefully matched to ensure concentricity. In most cases the production was so standardised using fixtures that there are no big problems, but they could be off by a tenth of milimetre. For WW- and Reform-lathes this can be fixed by scraping the foot of either head- or tailstock (if you master the art of scraping). For D-bed lathes the problem is almost impossible to remedy.

[dgbot]

I had a chance to buy a watchmakers lathe years ago and a club member told me to stay with the Sherline.  If everything was packed I use a watch makers T-rest and engravers to turn and shape metal.  I think it what you can get and are used to and comfortable with.  The quality of the machine combined with the skill and knowledge of the operator is what makes the difference.

David B

[captgino]

Hi.

 

I am in the market for a lathe. I have to admit that I am a little bit confused with information I am reading . ideally I would like to get one machine to do wood and metal. My understanding if it is correct, is that the lathe must turn faster for wood than metal.most of the micro lathe go up to 5000 rpm and I thought that the smaller the piece of wood (diameter) the faster the speed must be . Based of the calculation method I found , the speed should be much higher for items like a mast, pins,...

What models are you actually using?

 

I found these. Any recommendation?

 

https://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-6-Micro-Metal-Lathe/G0745

 

http://www.sherline.com/4000pg.htm

 

http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html

 

The first one is more in my price range.

 

If you have any other suggestions, please do not hesitate to let me know.

 

Jp

[mtaylor]

JP,

 

I have one similar to this:  http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4959&category=1271799306  Actually, it's the same just a different brand (Micromark).  Harbor Freight and Grizzly sell the same model but this is the lowest price I've seen.  

 

My lathe goes up to 2500 rpm and works ok on wood as long as you use a slow feed rate.  The catch is, that a wood lathe will have a bigger distance between the chuck and tailstock but for our purposes, you'll need a support to keep the wood from flexing when turning masts and yards.

 

If you'll mostly be doing small parts, go with what you can afford.  There's other ways to turn masts and yards than a lathe.  But a metal lathe is infinitely more versatile than a wood lathe.

[Nirvana]

A mini lathe is on my "wishing list", but way way down - Byrnes table saw and sander comes first.

I thank you all for the inputs and ideas of brands.

I looked into the Taig brand, and for USD 440.20  (fun and nice to see an odd number of pricing)

you are getting a base machine. The accessory list is extensive.

The most expensive ready to use machines on their website runs at USD 501.35.

And as Crackers write and posted, for only spars, yards and mast his contraption seems the way to go.

[mtaylor]

Per,

Like most other machine tools, the accessories are the budget killer.  I read somewhere that with lathes and mills, expect to spend as much, if not more, than the machine cost on tooling and accessories.   I have found that very true. 

[captgino]

JP,

 

I have one similar to this:  http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4959&category=1271799306  Actually, it's the same just a different brand (Micromark).  Harbor Freight and Grizzly sell the same model but this is the lowest price I've seen.  

 

My lathe goes up to 2500 rpm and works ok on wood as long as you use a slow feed rate.  The catch is, that a wood lathe will have a bigger distance between the chuck and tailstock but for our purposes, you'll need a support to keep the wood from flexing when turning masts and yards.

 

If you'll mostly be doing small parts, go with what you can afford.  There's other ways to turn masts and yards than a lathe.  But a metal lathe is infinitely more versatile than a wood lathe.

Thank you for your reply Mark.

I am looking to get a machine as versatile as possible. Maybe a lathe bigger like yours could be an option.

is there a location on this site where I could find some  documentation on 'some of the other ways to turn masts and yards' you mentioned?

 

-JP

[mtaylor]

JP,

Do a search in the Masting and Rigging area.   There's been lots of posts.  Many use the square timber, plane it to 8 sides and round it, others use a lathe.  I think someone (and I don't remember who at this point) actually did a made mast to scale. 

 

As for a lathe.. any of the brands that are similar to the one I linked to are made by the same Chinese company.  There are some minor differences.  The only thing I can warn you of is that most will require some work to be usable.  Notably setting the slide gibs and truing up the chuck.

 

The LittleMachineShop link is a good place for information.  If you go to the "Learning Center" link on the top of their page there's assorted documents which explain things pretty well.