Henry Grace a Dieu (Great Harry) by Louie da fly - FINISHED - Scale 1:200 - Repaired after over 50 yrs of neglect

[druxey]

Well, you could thin the aft deadwood a bit, or just live with a slightly 'fat' stern post.

[BANYAN]

Hi Steven, I found using a very thin strip (both width and thickness) as a batten to be very helpful, as the batten if not forced to bend in the up/down dimension, has the natural tendency to lay in the natural path of the sheer when laid upon the hull at various points.  By moving these to various positions, and adjusting the 'lay', this better defines where to place the band separating lines.  You can use them temporarily and replace with string after marking the appropriate points along the batten.  I think David Antscherl and other authors also recommend this.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Pat. I tried a thin sliver of bamboo as a batten and it seems to work quite well. Here's the new layout of the thread. I realised that to get a smooth line I had to add a "reverse curve" to the bottom of the aftermost few frames/bulkheads - which is what they do in the real world.

 

When I first built the model I didn't think of these, and because I was doing my own dodgy planking, with multiple "strakes" carved into each (wide) plank, it wasn't an issue at the time. I kept that mindset when I was fixing the model up, and only now has it come back to bite me.

 

I also checked the ebook Tudor Warship Mary Rose by Douglas McElvogue and of course it had the same "reverse curve" on many of the after frames, which confirmed that I had to do it.

 

So, here they are under construction:

And here they are trimmed to shape, with the threads in place on the port side (disregard the starboard threads - I haven't got to them yet). Looking at the photos, there are a couple of places that need a tiny bit of tweaking, but overall I'm fairly happy with it.

Any comments, corrections, advice welcome.

Steven

Edited May 13, 2020 by Louie da fly

[Baker]

Nice work.

Looks good to me.

[druxey]

Aft looks pretty nice to my eye. Forward is good, other than you may need to 'drop' a strake or two under the wale to avoid plank ends of the upper belt becoming too skinny into the bow rabbet.

[Louie da fly]

13 hours ago, druxey said:

Forward is good, other than you may need to 'drop' a strake or two under the wale

Thanks, Druxey. I'll try that. 

 

If I drop a plank or two forrard, does that mean I should move all the threads down at the bow, and perhaps move the end of the lowest thread aft by another frame, or maybe just drop the top thread enough for (say) two strakes, and the middle one by one strake, to make it all fairly even?

 

Steven

Edited May 14, 2020 by Louie da fly

[mtaylor]

Don't move the threads.   What it means is that if at midship you have (and this pure example only) 30 planks at full width, when you line off the hull for them they thinner forward.  You'll hit a point where they are getting too thin.   So basically at the bow there's only maybe 28 planks to keep the width.

 

Go up to the top of the any page and there's a topic labeled "Modeling Techniques".  In there are planking tutorials.  Take sometime and look them over as it'll save you some grief later.  

[Louie da fly]

Oh, now I get it. Drop planks! I knew about them but just didn't make the connection. I thought Druxey meant to drop the thread by the thickness of a plank or two.

 

Thanks, Mark.

 

Steven

Edited May 14, 2020 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

Don't drop the thread, Steven! That will cause the same issue of skinny planks, but just move it down. Two drop planks under the wale illustrated in the photo.

Edited May 14, 2020 by druxey

[Louie da fly]

Got it, Druxey. Thanks. Though somehow I doubt I'll be able to get the planking as good as in the photo. 

 

Steven

Edited May 15, 2020 by Louie da fly

[stuglo]

Just found your blog. Perhaps these plans can help (I made Great Harry semi scratch POB based on Mantua plans)

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Stuglo. I appreciate the thought, and these are very nice plans, but they are of a c. 1600 galleon, rather than a "great carrack"of 1545.

 

Steven

[Boxbuilds]

Thanks Stuglo.  Nice to hear from helpful folks.  I will look at these carefully.

[Louie da fly]

I've put this build on hold for the time being - I'm putting all my efforts into the dromon build at the moment, trying to get all the oarsmen completed. Once that's done I'll be able to do some more on the Great Harry.

[Old Collingwood]

On 7/11/2020 at 1:45 AM, Louie da fly said:

I've put this build on hold for the time being - I'm putting all my efforts into the dromon build at the moment, trying to get all the oarsmen completed. Once that's done I'll be able to do some more on the Great Harry.

I'm  "abit"  late to the party  but it came to me  - Isn't the Marry Rose similar?   could you not use her plans  to help with your hull planking?

 

OC.

[Louie da fly]

Very similar except for size, OC - Great Harry was about one and a half times the burthen of the Mary Rose. They were built within 4 years of each other.

 

The planking is just a matter of my own inexperience, nothing else. I just have to muddle through and hope I get it right (and keep the isopropanol handy in case of stuff-ups).

 

In fact I've already started - here's the garboard strake begun for one side.

        

 

I cut the rabbet for the garboard, but I've also had to shave the keel deadwood down so the planks will lie flush at that point, as I hadn't understood the process properly and the keel would have been too thick with the planks added. 

 

  

 

It's not finished - I've got to do the whole "approach" to the sternpost, but I'll continue that after I've got the first planks in and I can remove the black thread and move on upwards.

 

I'm finding it rather difficult getting the deadwood smooth enough for the planks to lie flat. I'm hoping I've got it right - if not, remove planks and start again . . .

[Louie da fly]

I've added the other plank for the garboard strake on the port side. I've been using the "Half Hull Planking Project" as a guide, working very slowly and fumblingly. I've planked before but I still don't think I really know what I'm doing.

 

I'd shaved the deadwood down to allow me to add the plank but I couldn't take too much off in case it weakened the structure. I used a very thin plank so it didn't stick out too much, and I'll sand it down flush later. Here's the after end of the plank already glued down and the forward end clamped in place, where it twists to be in line with the forward plank. The join is just to the left of the left-hand peg.

  

 

And here is the forward garboard plank for the starboard side. I cut the forward end of each garboard strake off at right angles (instead of it coming to a sharp point) to allow for "nailing".

 

 

And the after plank. The join is at frame 7.

 

 

On checking the two sides against each other, and the forward and after planks, I discovered I needed to trim the starboard planks to make a smoother run and mirror the starboard and port sides more exactly.

 

 

Then time to make the forward plank for the starboard side. I followed the "Half Planking" tutorial, made a cardboard template which followed the outer line of the garboard pretty closely, but I had to make a notch near the end to slip it up to the cut-off end of the garboard.

 

 

All looking good till I put it in place. Something definitely wrong here. You can see the notch in the red circle, but the plank seems to be curving away from the garboard instead of toward it.

 

 

After a bit of thought I realised I'd made a real duffer's mistake. I put the notch on the wrong side - I must have had the strake turned upside down when I cut it. As you can see - here is the plank right side up.

 

 

It needs to be adjusted a bit at the forward end but otherwise fits quite well. But now the notch is on the wrong side . . .  As Effie from the TV series Acropolis Now would say "How embarrassment!"

 

Ah, well - I'll just have to make another one . . .  

 

[Louie da fly]

And here is the nother one.

 

Clamped in place

 

 

And the second plank added to make the full strake.

 

 

Marking out for the corresponding plank on the port side:

 

 

 

Cutting the plank to match the cardboard master:

 

 

Clamping the forward end.

 

 

Oops

 

 

Had to make a new one:

 

This time it fits! And when the after end is clamped down to follow the curve of the hull it will fit too.

 

 

I'm learning a fair bit. Planking at my level of skill involves a lot of trial and error. And needs endless patience . . .

 

 

[druxey]

Well, you are getting a lot of experience doing this.... After you've planked a complete hull you will be an expert.

[Louie da fly]

Well, perhaps not an expert, but less of a duffer . Currently I feel like i know absolutely nothing about planking - but little by little I believe I'm learning to see how things should be. I think by the time I've planked everything below the waterline in the Great Harry I'll move from being totally ham-fisted to being merely slow and awkward . . .

 

Of course planking the underside when the ship is in such a state of completeness elsewhere (with a mast that's already in place and can't be removed without doing damage, and cannons sticking out the sides) does make it rather more difficult.

[BANYAN]

Ah, but you do like a challenge don't you?   Looking good so far.

 

cheers
 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Well, after a glitch that resulted in my removing and replacing two planks that I'd already glued down, I seem to have picked up momentum . . .

 

  

 

 

It looks worse in the photos than on the model, but I'll need to compensate for a width problem with the foremost plank on the starboard side - it's got a wave in it between frames 3 and 4 caused by the previous plank, that I hadn't noticed till it was too late. Still, my attitude with all this is that the Great Harry is where I'm learning my trade with planking. Mistakes just get put down to experience, with a resolve to avoid that particular mistake in future builds.

 

 

 

 

 

There are inequalities in the surface of adjacent planks, due to unequal thickness planks and other issues. This should all be resolved when it comes to sanding.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Louie da fly

[Baker]

Looks good
I think you're on the right (planking) track 

[Louie da fly]

Actually, I've realised that at the bow I've been on completely the wrong track.

 

I've drawn in pencil where the planks should be going at the bow. If I kept going the way I was I'd end up with a horrible mish-mash - similar to the bow planking you find on those model kits that just give you parallel sided planks and don't care that it's not the way it was done. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I owe it to myself and also to the people who've posted tutorials, and even more to those who've given me valuable advice personally, to pull the wrong bits off and get it right.

 

I probably still have to tweak the pencil lines a bit, but now I think I'm (finally) on the right track. Planking has never been my strong point, but if I'm patient and painstaking, I think I'll improve in this area to the point I actually know what I'm doing.

[Old Collingwood]

Always a tricky area getting the line of planks right  - practice I guess, you will do it mate.

 

OC.

[Baker]

Looking for a second time. indeed not on the right track.

Planking is a complicated thing, especially at the bow.

I also had problems with it the first time, and probably also the next times.

[Louie da fly]

Well, I've fixed the wrong track I'd got onto. I removed the outer plank on the port side (because it couldn't be fixed) and cut back the next one to the shape I'd pencilled in.

 

  

 

 

Then made the replacement for the plank I'd removed and put it in place: 

 

   

 

 

 

Then repeated the process on the starboard side:

 

 

 

 

And now that's sorted,  I can get on with adding extra planks.

 

   

Edited November 3, 2020 by Louie da fly

[liteflight]

Good revision, Steven

Thanks very much for posting your thinking, preparation and the dead end you went down before revising the idea.

Very instructive to the rest of us non-expert planners.

[Old Collingwood]

That is well executed  - you did fine correcting those planks.

 

OC.

[Louie da fly]

More progress on the planking. It's a bit rough and ready on the surface, but i believe that will sort itself out when it is sanded. But I've finally passed the turn of the bilge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And we're finally starting to see that exquisite curve in the planking where the body of the hull meets the deadwood of the keel. I just sat there holding it for maybe 10 minutes admiring the beauty of that shape. 

 

Looking at the photo below there seems to be something wrong with the line of the last plank at the bow. I'll have to look at that and see if it needs fixing.

 

 

I find my main problem is that I'm as Treebeard says, "hasty". I get a bit impatient and probably don't take as much care as I should to get the joins between the planks perfect, so I get the occasional tiny gap when I thought I had it right (usually when it's too late to correct). I'm not a very methodical person, unfortunately. Unless there's something I'm missing?

 

I'm learning a lot by putting into practice what was previously just theory - mostly by making mistakes and having to correct them. But I've decided to make this model my "learning experience" in planking. Even if I make mistakes I'm learning as I go, and by the time I'm finished I think I'll be considerably better at it.