Albertic by michael mott - FINISHED - Scale 1:100 - RESTORATION - Bassett-Lowke Model

[michael mott]

John regarding the photographs especially the Vallejo Gallery ones, I am glad that I saved the link because it is no longer visible when one goes to the website currently.

 

I agree with you regarding the "Builders Model" designation

 

I am going to see if I can find some good reference photographs of the funnel stays.

 

Something else I have been thinking about as I had to go get water today, musing as I was driving.

Regarding the damage on the side of the hull if I were to shape an area to represent the area of replacing the steel plating on a real ship by demarcating the area in a linear way with the paint matches it would allow me to pretty much hide the repair, what do you think?

 

Michael 

 

ps

I am having trouble uploading using the advanced upload,

I have the latest version of flash and am using the latest version of Firefox

The basic works but is a pain to have to go through so many steps

 

Help Please

Edited October 22, 2016 by michael mott

[Jim Lad]

Not quite sure I have the idea for the repaint properly, Michael.  Do you mean that you'd show her as under repair or do you mean that you'd cut out a section and re-build up the paint to match?

 

John

[michael mott]

Hi John

 

I am thinking something like this as subtle as possible the light colour is just to show the concept. the area would cover all the damage with the edges repainted along the imaginary plating of the ship around the damaged area

 

 

It would need the brass ports to be removed the replaced after the painting.

 

Michael

[Jim Lad]

Hmmm.  Certainly worth a try, Michael.  Obviously what you need is a system whereby you don't have to strip and repaint the entire hull.

 

John

[michael mott]

The diameter of the steel cables holding up the stacks on the Titanic are noted in one source as 1 1/4 inch in diameter. I would think that the cable stays for the Albertic would not be any larger than that. At 1:100 the stay diameter would be .0125" which is close to 30 gauge in this chart of sizes. This would be smaller than the .028 measure on the model.

 

Michael

[Jim Lad]

4 inch wire sounds plenty big enough for the job, Michael.

 

John

[Roger Pellett]

Michael,

 

What an interesting project! The lifeboats alone are wonderful models, not the crude poorly shaped objects often seen, and the Welin davits too.

 

Regarding miniature wire rope, you might want to check out fishing tackle, specifically cable used to hang downrigger weights. This is seven strand stainless steel so it is real wire rope. I'm not sure how small it comes. One spool that I found on the web listed the diameter as .032in which is a bit large for your purposes but maybe you can find a smaller size.

 

The miniature model maker Lloyd McCaffery writes of spinning rope for his models from nichrome wire. 36ga nichrome wire is available from Amazon.

 

Roger Pellett

[jbshan]

The different hobby houses have wire.  Bass pro shops would have fishing tackle wire.  All you need is a drill to make wire into rope, it doesn't need the same torsion control as fiber rope.  Do please try to do a neater job on the whipping of the ends than the original builder.    Any picture wire I've worked with turns gray and nasty looking, plus I think it is a weave instead of a twist.

Your repaint scheme sounds as if it should work.

You also have, mostly, a damaged side and an undamaged side for comparison.  I've seen some where both sides are 'gone' which must make it tougher to restore.

Edited October 23, 2016 by jbshan

[jud]

Michael,

 

What an interesting project! The lifeboats alone are wonderful models, not the crude poorly shaped objects often seen, and the Welin davits too.

 

 

Roger Pellett

Thanks Roger for naming the davits, looked them up and found out how they operated, it was bugging me. Looks like an efficient method to pivot the arms with their lower arc engaged with a rack while the hinge pin was moved, one man should have been able to handle each davit.

jud

[michael mott]

I am still having trouble with the bulk uploading of pictures any ideas as to why the latest version of flash doesn't work for this?

 

I have looked at quite a few pictures now of funnels and their attendant staying, there seem to be quite a variation in methods. I think that proper looking cables and endings will improve the appearance of the stays.

 

Roger thanks for the comment about Lloyd McCaffery, do you have a link or reference?

 

Jbshan, yes I will certainly do a better job of the ends of the cables. 

 

This of course is an area that will no doubt cause some to be concerned regarding making this model look "original"  It is not in my genetic make up to make something look wrong on purpose though.

 

Jud thanks for stopping by.

 

Michael

[captainbob]

Michael,  for the wire, if you can use copper, take apart one of the new tiny DC motors.  I just measured the wire on two different ones.  One was .0015" the other was .0035".  I don't know what you could do about the color though.  Your "steel plate" idea for the hull repair sounds good.  If the cut lines were visible it would still look natural.

 

Bob

[michael mott]

Bob Thanks for the information.

 

I have a spool of .006" copper wire and I have been twisting up a few different combinations to see what happens, definitely a different process than the rope.

 

This pic shows the large broken stay off the model and the 2 in the back are 3 strands, the one in the front is 4 strands.

 

 

I did another experiment with some bright 49 strand Beadalon bead stringing wire that I happened to have in stock it is .024" some of the pictures on the web of older ships and the stays looked like they were folded through the thimble and whipped the copper wire in this picture is too heavy .006" but this might be a path with the right diameters of Beadalon and fine whipping wire.

 

 

Michael

 

[Jim Lad]

Surely all of your stays are single, Michael.  I would think that the upper ends were eye spliced around a thimble and shackled to the lug on the funnel.  The splice may well have been served over to make it look 'pretty' on a passenger ship.

 

John

[jud]

I would also expect the lower ends to have been back spliced around a thimble and shackled to the turnbuckle or the thimble being part of the turnbuckle. Splices served over with marlin and canvas painted with white lead is what I would expect to see at wire rope ends for standing rigging on that vessel. I don't back splice around here but I do use thimbles and cable clamps to avoid snags,  do wrap barb wire back around itself. Problem is, you don't want to replace all standing rigging, so your are kind of stuck with the original model methods.

jud

Edited October 23, 2016 by jud

[druxey]

I never, ever implied that Michael would use polyurethane foam!!!! In the case I cited, Jack, the hull was very sturdy and of wood, so no distortion occurred. It was simply very messy around the 'repair' area.

 

Michael: thanks for the post-accident photo. It makes it very clear how the damage occurred. It's too bad some parts went out with the broken glass. However, I've no doubt that you are more than equal to the task of replicating the missing bits.

[druxey]

Joel brings up an interesting point: "Do please try to do a neater job on the whipping of the ends than the original builder."

 

In restoration work, it is more usual to try to match the style of the original builder rather than improve on it, unless that is the client/owner's request. Sometimes it's hard to resist the temptation to 'improve'. One needs to be sympathetic in the work one carries out. 

[overdale]

Interesting to see the lavish use of pen and ink for the skylights and doors. Not seen that much these days. It's very effective but requires a steady hand.

I suspect a lot of builders back then were proficient draughtsmen too and were more familiar with lining pens etc. 

[michael mott]

 

In restoration work, it is more usual to try to match the style of the original builder rather than improve on it,

Yes, I do completely agree with you on this score.

 

 

Problem is, you don't want to replace all standing rigging, so your are kind of stuck with the original model methods.

Jud you are right I do not want to replace all the wire standing rigging, but I might have to, a closer inspection shows that nearly all of the brass wire rigging is stretched and loose. 

One option is to undo then one at a time and then rewind them again and make a neater job of all of them.

The other is to replace them all.

 

All the funnel stays  are all damaged to some extent, the eye-bolts that go into the funnel are bent wire and then bent down inside.

 

 

 

Only a few of the running rigging lines that are fitted to the booms have been snapped and that will be tricky but likely easier to deal with that the wire rigging.

 

I spent most of the afternoon removing the funnels and the structure under them the tops were crushed a bit.

 

 

An area that is serious and not apparent in the beginning is the area highlighted in the next picture

 

 

This one is troubling. Basically the whole of the front sheet is moved forward away from the deck behind it. This is the brass piece that the top member that supports the boat deck need to be soldered to after making a new piece.

 

One thought is to cut the section at the blue line to remove the side in order to straighten and solder the new section to it.

I am reminded of Druxey's comment now about hidden damage that was not apparent.

 

I am having this feeling of digging a hole and it keeps getting bigger. Definitely stretching my abilities.

 

I would love to have a time machine and go back to see how the chaps at Bassett Lowke assembled the metal rigging, did they have the metal stays pre-made on jigs, or did they wire them up in situ? better yet use the time machine to get to the model just before it got knocked over and prevent it from happening in the first place.

 

 

Interesting to see the lavish use of pen and ink for the skylights and doors.

Dale yes and a steady hand for sure, I am going to have to practice a bit, notice the fan that has been pinned onto the skylight. Whoever did that was just guessing and they even made a wedge for it.

 

The other hidden damage is regarding the handrail, a number of the stanchions were snapped.

 

 

I used some flush cutters and a bit of brass to lever out the remains.

 

 

 

The handrail was pinned in quite tightly, perhaps the wood has shrunk over the years.

 

This is the section I had to remove. you can see how many of the stations were damaged.

 

 

I did do another experiment with the stays, this is some control line brass wire a little too heavy but interesting.

 

 

Time for a break.

 

 

And Thanks to all who have looked in and pressed the like button. 

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

[WackoWolf]

Mike,

 

   I think your biggest problems are going to be the ones you can't see. The ones that are hidden, they will always come and bite you. Old saying "Always Expect the Unexpected" and "Never Take Anything for Granted". I really do wish I had something better to say except I wish you the best in the work you have in front of you. Like everyone else I will be always here to see what wonders you have done with the mess in front of you.

[druxey]

I do notice the turnbuckles on the mast stays, Michael. I presume they are operational and can control tension for you? I've had models where slack in a wire line was able to be taken up by the turnbuckle.

[michael mott]

 

I do notice the turnbuckles on the mast stays, Michael. I presume they are operational and can control tension for you?

Druxey, sad to say but the turnbuckles are fakes they look like some sort of forging or casting.

 

 

I have figured out how they set them up, by unwinding one of them

 

 

there are 4 strands of 3 wires and one set is left long and the other 3 are looped through the eye and then the long strand is wound round.

 

 

I did a couple of tests with the fine copper wire by just twisting 12 strands then leaving just 1 strand long, I am confident that with a little practice I will be able to make the replacements I will look at tightening the loose ones in situ after I have mastered the method.

The one on the turnbuckle is a rewind, and my first attempt not as pretty as I would like but I will get there.

 

I am doing some practice runs and am getting ready to wind up some in the same manner as the originals I will look for some fine brass wire tomorrow.

 

Druxey any thoughts on the potential cut? The only other way would be to remove all the upper deck which I am not going to do.

 

Thanks for your support Joe

 

Michael

[Roger Pellett]

Michael, the Lloyd McCaffery book is Ships in Miniature. He discusses his simple method for producing nichrome wire rope on pages 51 and 52. If you don't want to buy a copy of this book for yourself send me a PM and I'll send you the relevant pages.

 

Roger Pellett

[druxey]

Thanks for asking, Michael, but I'm reluctant to give advice from a distance without seeing the damage in person. I wouldn't want to offer bad counsel.

 

Too bad the turnbuckles are impractical ones. But that is a useful discovery on the technique of securing wire line.

[yamsterman]

hi

with regards to the wires for the stays............try www.wires.co.uk

they sell pretty much everything to do with wire!!

interesting and challenging project....shall be casting my beady eye on this one!!

cheers.....mick

[amateur]

Too bad on the front side...

I was wondering: wat is the reason that it is bend outward: is it the due to the sides forced inwards as result of the fall?

 

Jan

[EdT]

You've got some interesting problems, Micheal, and your just getting started.  

 

I've been thinking about your wire problem and don't have a solution to offer, but maybe a couple idle thoughts:  I just bought some 316L stainless 36 gauge wire from Amazon that I may twist into cable for YA's wire rigging.  Something to consider if you decide to replace all the cables.  Small gauge copper and brass bare wire are available.  I don's use coated wire, but there are small sizes in silver craft wire.  One idea I've never tried:  Stretching - re-annealing - re-stretching  wire to get to the right size? Use of a drawplate?

 

On the hull paint job:  I would have a go at filling and touching up the damage before resigning to a full repaint.  You said the finish was brushed.  Presumably enamel.  The black should be easy to match, followed by rubbing out with abrasive pads to blend.  May work.  Replicating the copper color of the hull may be a different matter.

 

I admire your commitment to a job like this.  Its something that would put me away.

 

Ed

[michael mott]

 

Too bad the turnbuckles are impractical ones. But that is a useful discovery on the technique of securing wire line.

Yes It is, If I can find the right brass wire here in Edmonton and there are a couple of places that cater to the jewelry and silversmith folk The key is keeping it brass. using my rope machine I can easily twist the wire evenly.

 

Regarding the cut basically I have no other option, I do not want to solder on the model, and the only way that i could remove the side that need soldering is to remove the whole piece which is a wrap around the whole deck. doing that would likely cause some damage that is unnecessary due to the way the model is assembled.

 

Mick, thanks for the link, I think that there will be options here in Edmonton but if I strike out I will have to go father afield.

 

 

I was wondering: wat is the reason that it is bend outward:

Jan the force of the impact that twisted the boat deck and mangled the side likely imparted some forward movement. the front face is only forward about 1/16th inch on the port side, If I cut off the side at the blue line, it will be the easiest place to reconnect using a tiny plate soldered to the inside of the side wall. It will project an 1/8th inside behind the front rail and then a couple of pins as rivets when the deck above is replaced it is impossible to see inside the area without a dental mirror. I will work up a drawing to illustrate what I mean.

 

 

 Small gauge copper and brass bare wire are available.

On the hull paint job:  I would have a go at filling and touching up the damage before resigning to a full repaint.  You said the finish was brushed.  Presumably enamel.  The black should be easy to match, followed by rubbing out with abrasive pads to blend.  May work.  Replicating the copper color of the hull may be a different matter.

Thanks for your thoughts Ed, I am going to see if I can find the right gauge brass wire as a first step. The way that Bassett Lowke did the stringing of the stays is interesting, My guess is that on the funnels the lower turnbuckle ends were fixed to the deck first and that the upper ends done last. I say that because the ones at the deck are tucked in behind the steps and railings in difficult to reach areas for winding up. This is in fact why I think that the stays were pre-made accurately on jigs. Some will definitely have been wire up in situ though.

One thought that has occurred to me is use a combination of a simple fold through the loop the a separate wire for the whipping, rather than unwinding some of the strands as done by B.L.

 

I will need to remove a few of the portholes in the area of the hull that is damaged before proceeding on the hull damage though. Colour matching was the one job that I always enjoyed when I had my model building business, I had a chip system similar to the colour chips that you see in the paint departments but mine were of architectural finishes, marble, granite, pre cast concrete you name it, it was the most enjoyable aspect of building the models. but I digress. off to the city to the suppliers this morning.

 

Michael 

 

     

[michael mott]

The deed is done

 

 

I was surprised to note that it is nickle silver.

 

the next pictures shows the spring away from the deck.

 

 

this is where it needs to end up

 

 

the hull is damaged at the sweep of the rail but on very close inspection the sides are asymmetrical, the starboard side is different and not because of the fall, a little bit of a fudge during manufacture is my guess.

 

 

I was able to find some wire for the handrails and also line for the running rigging, Oh and I tossed in a couple of much needed (desired) tools. I have ordered some 34 gauge brass wire and should have it by next week

 

 

I did an experiment with some 28 gauge brass wire and the results are promising so should be even better when the correct wire come in.

 

 

Yes I am learning a few new tricks here.

 

Michael

 

 

[Jim Lad]

There's some very nice metalwork on that model, Michael.

 

Any ideas about the black metal frame structure on the fore deck?  It has me puzzled, unless it's the crutch for the two forward cargo derricks.

 

John

[druxey]

Looks like you are on your way, Michael! The piece you've removed should be much easier to restore on the bench than in situ. That was a good call, methinks.