HMS Victory by gjdale - FINISHED - Mamoli - Scale 1:90

[the learner]

John, The plating should not be too green and for the most part only the plating that was above the water oxodized to green, the motion of the water and the lack of air  would not allow the oxidation, but you could have some thing growing on the plates below the waterline  .

 

Grant,

 

Perused your build, per earlier conversation I agree the launch makes it right will attempt a scratch build when the time comes, if I can keep cats out of the rigging.

 

Question? the plating for the hull bottom in the kit I have may have been copper at one time but has turned green or was originally green. Do you know or have seen a build where the plating was kept green which would be a natural state for a ship at sea for a time. Am contemplating leaving it green or putting a light copper wash over it.

 

Thanks John

[gjdale]

Thanks for stopping by Aldo and the kind words of encouragement. Hope to see an update on your Peggy Sue soon!

[gjdale]

Thanks for dropping in Guy and offering your opinion on oxidisation of copper.

[augie]

Well, after 2 years of wandering about in the dark, I came across this log.  Holy cow ----- what an absolute beauty!  I salute you, Grant, on your fine craftsmanship and perserverence.  Don't tell any Americans but HMS Victory is my all time favorite vessel having had the opportunity to visit her in '79.

 

I will follow along and i'M just sad I got here so late for the party.

 

Ironically, that photo of the yards with the ship in the background is exactly where I am at the moment......without the Victory  

 

Will look forward to the balance of your running rigging and her ultimate completion.

 

WELL DONE!!!!!!

[gjdale]

Hi Augie,

 

Welcome - grab some popcorn from Sjors and take a seat! Thanks for the good words. I've been enjoying your build for a while now and it's good to see others at about the same building stage. Different ships maybe, but the problems (and solutions) are often the same.

[gjdale]

Hi all,

 

Not a lot of shipyard time over the Easter Weekend, with house guests taking up most of my time/attention.  Have managed a little progress with the Yards though.  I've added the octagonal sections to the yard centres, as well as the Quarter Boom irons (for the stunsl booms).  I decided to add both Sling Cleats and Stop Cleats to the yards.  These are not catered for within the kit instructions, but following the advice in Longridge (pp 199 - 203 and associated diagrams), I was able to work out what was needed and make up a spreadsheet to convert all the sizes to my scale of 1:90.  Adding these details at this scale presented something of a challenge, and so in some cases, there will be the "suggestion" of an item rather than the fact (for example the Snatch Blocks on the topsail yards).  While I am sure that Remco would likely be able to produce a working facsimile at this scale, we mere mortals will have to settle for an approximation.

 

Pics below to show some of the hardware added.  

 

 

 

 

All the yards have now received their first coat of paint.  After painting, there are a "few" blocks to strop and add before fitting to the masts.

[mtaylor]

Nice detaiing touches on the yards, Grant. 

[Jim Lad]

Grant,

 

It's a long time since I stopped by to see what you were up to, and I'm sorry I left it so long!  You're doing a great job on your Victory, nmate!!

 

John

[Kevin]

hi grant she looks very nice, in the last few photo's

 

well for me Easter came and went, had some time off, so managed to get about 20+ hours in on my build, may be a different kit but i am years behind you.

 

lol i am doing the dead eye strops at present, the information that was lost in MSW 1.0 is beginning to haunt me as i come across errors that will have been discussed  and remedy's found previously

[gjdale]

Thanks Mark and John - your encouragement is always appreciated. 

 

Thanks Kevin - you're not really that far behind me.  As I read somewhere else (I think it was Andy [realworkingsailor] who said it), "string is in the air".  You'll be in amongst the ratlines before you know it mate!     As far as info from MSW 1.0 being lost, at least with your kit you have the excellent example of Gil Middleton's build to follow and I'm sure he'd be only too happy to flag any particular issues he's found for you.

[Kevin]

i reckon another 1000 hours to get to stepping the masts, going on the possibility of a 3500 hour build, plus then i will have to look at and fabricate every sail, including stuns, oh and 20 minutes to replace the storm damaged copper tiles

 

If it was not for some very clear photos on Gils log, and the text in Keiths Juliers book (poor photo,s)i would still this morning be ranting about the chain-plates

[Sjors]

Hi Grant,

 

Nice yards ( I thought that they are called spars )

Can I take then for my little row boat? 

And pictures…………yammie!

 

 

[gjdale]

Thanks Sjors,

 

You raise a good question. I think that "yards" is a a subset of the more general term "spars", but I'm sure one of the experts here will give a more definitive answer.

[keelhauled]

"I was able to work out what was needed and make up a spreadsheet to convert all the sizes to my scale of 1:90.  Adding these details at this scale presented something of a challenge, and so in some cases, there will be the "suggestion" of an item rather than the fact (for example the Snatch Blocks on the topsail yards).  While I am sure that Remco would likely be able to produce a working facsimile at this scale, we mere mortals will have to settle for an approximation".

 

Would you be willing to share your spreadsheet?  Nice work on the yards/spars!

 

Thanks

Marc

Edited April 4, 2013 by keelhauled

[mobbsie]

Hi Grant,

 

According to George Biddlecombe's book " THE ART OF RIGGING" a Spar is a small tree, a Yard is " Long cylindrical pieces of Fir Timber, hung to the masts of ships to expand the the sails to the wind.

 

I can only guise that during times when repairs were being made away from any port and small tree's were used as replacement yards. The working party may have been told to go ashore and get some Spar's. This may be a total figment of my imagination and is probably wrong but you never know, seems logical to my mind. :mellow:  :mellow:

 

mobbsie

[gjdale]

Marc (keel hauled),

 

Very happy to share my spreadsheet. Please send me a PM with your email address and let me know what OS you are using. My spreadsheet was created on a Mac using Numbers, but I can convert to other forms for you.

[gjdale]

Mobbsie,

 

Thanks for your contribution on the use of terminology "spars" and "yards". An interesting consideration.

[Dan Vadas]

Hi Grant,

 

Sorry it's taken so long to catch up with your Build - I haven't had a lot of time lately (matter of fact I've only just started back on "Vulture" in the last week or so).

 

When I built my Victory I knocked off halfway through tying ratlines - and didn't resume for 10 YEARS. There sure WERE a lot of them .

 

She's looking good mate .

 

  Danny

[gjdale]

Thanks Danny,

 

I figured that after having had a six year coffee break already before joining MSW, I couldn't afford to take another one!

 

Vulture's looking superb by the way!

[Sjors]

Thanks Mobbsie and Grant 

 

I'll keep it with spars…..

 

 

[mobbsie]

Hi Grant,

 

A bit belated my friend but I just wanted to wish you a speedy recovery and hope that the soreness and discomfort wont last long.

 

I hope you dont look like you've been 12 rounds with Mike Tyson, nose and throat is renowned for bad bruising.

 

Keep your pecker up mate though it must be difficult. Do what your told and I'm sure all will be well.

 

Could be worse mate, Sjors could have driven you to and from the hospital !!!!!!!!!!!  

 

mobbsie

[gjdale]

Hi Mobbsie,

 

Thanks for the good wishes my friend. It's been a tough week in terms of pain management. The throat ops (UPPP and tonsillectomy) have been the worst and have required some really heavy duty drugs. Just as I got that under control, the side effects kicked in and I was back at the hospital again on Saturday and again yesterday to try and get the " inners" working again (I'm sure I don't need to elaborate, you get the picture! ). Got some new drugs yesterday and they seem to have worked a miracle overnight. I think I've turned the corner at last now and I'm looking forward to being back in the shipyard by the weekend.

[mobbsie]

Hi Grant,

 

It's not easy mate, but if your new drugs are helping then thats great news, if you are able to sleep well at night then you are most certainly on the road to recovery.

 

It's a good excuse to get into some serious ice cream noshing mate, just to ease the throat you understand.

 

Dont worry about the build, she's not going anywhere and will be waiting for you when you are ready, no pressure.

 

mobbsie

[themadchemist]

Sorry to hear your under the weather. I understand the medication backlash thing and have experienced it many times. So was the UPPP apnea related? Tammy has that and uses a CPAP. Getting that REM sleep is key. A friend in grad school had apnea and after getting his CPAP his memory improved many fold. Hope your well and in the ship yards again soon.

 

Here's to a speedy recovery.

 

and... not to be a chemist ...but

on Copper patina. the green/blue is actually a cupric (old school name for copper) carbonate rather then an oxide. The oxide of copper is brown, like one sees on a penny (or any copper coin), Air exposure causes the carbonation reaction which occurs with the free CO2 in the air. it's really a 2 step reaction, oxidize then carbonation, thats where the CO2 becomes CO3 (carbonate) Ocean water has CO2 in it, but many other chemical reactions also. The cupric carbonates color is also hydration dependent. Some compounds are very hydration color dependent. Cobalt chloride is a great example changes from red to blue depending on its hydration (water).

 

Cobalt chloride hexahydrate (that 6 waters attached)

 

 

Cobalt Chloride anhydrous (thats dehydrated)

 

 

Thought I'd add some pictures while your under the weather, that will help appease some maybe.

 

Oh BTW, Very nice work on the yards. spars, booms..... whatever the terminology

[themadchemist]

Sorry for being a chemist, but I can't help myself....and maybe someone is interested

 

Copper, as a transition metal, can form 2 ions (Cu+1 and Cu+2) therefore to confuse things even further copper oxide comes in 2 forms

 

Copper I Oxide (Cu2O)

 

Copper II Oxide (CuO)

 

 

mix the red and black and you have that brown penny, strangely many copper solutions are blue though...

 

and here's the carbonate for comparison

 

[mtaylor]

Grant,

 

Get well first.  The ship is minor compared to health.  Besides, there's a 95% chance that whatever you do while on the meds, you'll find you have to redo once you're off them.  

[Kevin]

get better soon

 

all the best

[gjdale]

Thank you Mobbsie, Keith, Mark and Kevin for the well wishes.

 

@Mobbsie - don't worry, plenty of ice-cream being devoured here!

 

@ Keith - yes, the ops are related to severe sleep apnea. Three ops in the nose/sinuses at the same time. It's all about opening up the airways to get more oxygen while sleeping. I'm keen to avoid (or at least delay) the CPAP machine! Nose ops seem to have been relatively insignificant by comparison to the two throat ops, but I think I can safely say I've turned the corner in recovery now. Started reducing the pain med regime yesterday, so that's definitely a good sign. And thanks for the Chemistry lessons - I'm sure the pictures will keep Sjors happy for a while

 

@ Mark - yep, I've been tempted to do bits in the shipyard, but have had exactly that thought going through my mind. "Building Under the Influence" is not recommended. I also need to keep right away from dust for a little while. Plus, the Admiral has taken "Carer's Leave" and is taking this role a little toooooo seriously!!! To save myself from going insane with boredom, I've recently upgraded my CAD software to TurboCad Mac Deluxe ver 7 and have been learning that in preparation for taking on some plan tracing as part of the plans project over at MSB. I've been pretty impressed with the software - it seems to be quite a significant step up from ver 6.

 

In the meantime, thanks again for all the good wishes and I hope to be able to post a proper update in a week or so.

[themadchemist]

Glad I could be of help, diverting attention with pictures I mean.

Of course they're not Your Vicky but there was an awful lot of chemistry and engineering that went into these ships.

 

I recently was reading something on the development of the copper plating as a superior preventative to paint against sea critters (mostly topedo worms) anyway the early plating used iron nails which caused an electric potential in the sea water that caused electro-corrosion and caused early plate corrosion, which lead to the use of copper nails. Its funny I have a device that does this in my pool and it save Big $$ on pool chemicals, Cu ions are a fungicide.

 

Here's a couple of interesting pic's, probably seen before by many, showing just how corrosive sea water can be.

 

 

and those nasty worms, actually a mollusk

 

 

but then just like a fungus creates the burl in wood so is the teredo wood interesting

 

 

Stay on the ice cream and get to feeling better. Tammy wasn't a candidate for the surgery but here in the US they usually go with the CPAP first. a lot depends on the severity also. Bob, my friend in grad school, during his sleep test was going minutes without breathing. The person testing him said it was the worst case he'd seen. I know when camping we always made him pitch tent 75 meters away and you could still hear him snore.

 

 

 

[augie]

Hope you're continuing to improve.  I went through that operation-home-back in thing 2 years ago so I understand well what you went through.  We'll be here when you're back up to being in the shop.