T78 Norden by popeye the Sailor - FINISHED - Billing Boats - 1:30

[popeye the sailor]

these past couple of weeks,  I've been looking through the logs to see what others have done with this kit.   so far,  none of them answer the questions I have concerning the winch that sits on the deck,  or the winch like apparatus that sit on the base of the pilot house.   I went looking for Danish coasters online,  to see how these pieces of equipment were rigged.......if they were rigged.......and what their function is.   I found a salvage site that showed many different types of winches......but they weren't on board a boat or set up in any way.   they are a weather detailer's gold mine!   I also found a site...a data base,  if you will,  of all boats in Danmark that were either for sale,  or have been decommissioned and scrapped.

   

   

here is a real good picture of the apparatus,  on {what we would see here in the southern states} what could be considered to be like a swamp boat.

what are the shape of the reels?  in the kit,  and what I've seen so far on models online,  none were given much detail......even the picture on the box.  if this is a winch use for seine fishing,  I would imagine them to have a concave look to them.   on the other hand,  these types of vessels are usually pulled on shore at the end of the day.   the boat is ran to shore as far as the tide will take them,  and beached further with the use of a rope or cable,  tied to a post onshore.   the other question I have,  pertains to the use of this winch,  located on the base of the pilot house.

I have found no pictures of it......this is all I have to go on.   hopefully,  someone will be able to help me out with this........I think this model has quite a bit of promise,  being an advanced beginner's kit.   I think a little more depth and detail my enhance the model.   I also did not find anything on the Norden either.

 

[Fright]

Popeye - It's been a while for me but I just wanted to wish you and your loved ones a HaPpY HoLiDaY and the best to you in 2018 ! Cheers!!!

[John Allen]

Popeye,

 

The L129 looks close to an adjunct vessel used by menhaden boats in the closing of a purse seine? or due to the double stanchions forward retrieving gill nets from the bow between stanchions. I am probably way off base and may have not understood your post are you wanting to re-rig that model like an American fisherman you could use a double drum winch with a power takeoff for trawling.

[popeye the sailor]

hello Robert........and a Merry Christmas to you and yours!  it's getting close....the admiral has been teasing me.  I have no idea what she has done......I suppose I'll find out soon enough      hope Santa's good to you too!

 

hello John........the boat is too small to be a trawler......although I did read about the power winch.   it's the position of this winch in these boats that has me baffled....is it used for purse seining,  or is it use to pull the boat on the beach after a day's work.  this boat dates back to 1930...it would be hard to 'americanize' it, since it has the shape of a dutch boat.   Billing used this basic style of boat for a few of their models......the Cux,  the Mary ann,  and one other that I can't think of at the moment.   yes......I would like to know how it was rigged.  especially,  since all of the models I've looked at did absolutely nothing with the reels......they didn't concave them,  of give them any shape,  to give them the look of a reel.   I also note that in the assembly of the winch,  they have the two outer pieces,  located at the larger end of the winch body......backwards.   in most of the winches I've seen {you can see it in one of the pictures real good},  those two parts fan out away from the winch body.  this would be logical if it was used for netting....they would act as guides,  to bunch the netting on the spool.   the boats changed through the years.......in the more modern boat,  the hull was a few feet longer.  I need to do a bit more research,  but I have been hitting a brick wall,  as far as seeing anything of the deck layout,  or pictures of these two winches operational and rigged.   I did some work to the winch.......I show you what I've done as soon as I can get the camera free of the charger.....I haven't taken the picture yet      thanks for the help...I hope you'll follow along  

 

as mentioned,  I built up the main part of the winch.  I think it looks much better,  and in line with some of the winches I've seen.   I had a bit of a scare yesterday.......I almost destroyed the hull frame when I cemented in the deck platform.   I was using super glue......the platform halves were giving me a tough time, so I got a bit liberal with the CA.........and then had to run an errand.   when I got back,  I found that a few of the clamps had been cemented to the frame!  I broke a few posts and gouged the platform.   I have it back together....fixed up...made me almost sorry that I started it.   if it wasn't that I can't use the kitchen table for laying out the plans,  I would have picked back up with the Thermopylae again.  so I'll have to wait till after the holidays,  before I can do so.

[popeye the sailor]

sorry about the delay.......the site must not have fully functional last night.  I wrote the reply and then I got timed out!?!?!?!  wow!  I'm glad the site is up and running tonight........

 

to be honest.......I've seen so many different boats,  that I was considering modeling one of those boat with the kit....I still may.   I did my best to save the parts panels......if I can clone another hull from them......I just may     anyway.......since there are no detailed build logs on this model,  I will do my best to create one.

    this is an advanced beginner's kit.......believe me......there is more than enough challenge,  if you think outside the box a little.   that's how I'm going to do it.  I did a bit of work on her already.......but first........this is the kit contents:

hmmmmmm.......uploads are a little slow...is there a problem?   it's probably me.....but the kit seems to have a toy=ish look to it.   I think,  with some extra detail and flat paints,  the appearance could change quite a bit.   there is a plastic sprue of parts,  along with a bag of all things brass.....the fittings.

then of course,  the wood parts .

there is the usual bundle of strip wood,  and a small amount of sail cloth.

[popeye the sailor]

   the hull frame is in two halves.........I have already gone and pre-numbered the parts.   as I've pointed out in other build logs.......I save everything......right down to the punch out cast off bits.

I might used them on something for the boat......if not....they might be used somewhere else.

Billing did their best to utilize the wood panel......I will need to put a frame around the panel,  to preserve it.

they also supply that piece of board under the panel,  to assemble the frame halves on.   they instruct you to nail the frames to it......I prefer to clamp it to the table.

with the keel halves punched out and ready to go.....the board is set up with the first side.

there is a rabbit cemented to the bow and stern ends.  once dry,  the other half will be set up.  the other side will be done as the starboard side {bow facing the opposite direction}.

as I was assembling this side,  I did some faring to the port side.  the instructions tell you to plank both sides separately......the AmericA reissue kit is done the same way,  but I chose not to follow the method.  I don't think I will on this one either.

 

[popeye the sailor]

the bag of fittings was separated and put into some sort of order.   

I tried Ca on the life raft locker......it seems to be holding well enough.   the starboard side hull frame is finished by now

I got the parts for the winch together,  and began to assemble it.......the base is done.   the supplied piece of dowel for it was too big to fit the holes,  so I substituted a smaller diameter that fit.

the round part next to it is half of the reel......when put together,  it looks like a short barrel.   I'll explain more when I get to work on them.   next to the winch body parts are the half moon looking pieces....the parts that I feel that are wrong in the kit picture.     I checked in the camera........there is still a little bit more to show   

 

[popeye the sailor]

as mentioned,  I'm not going to follow the instructions on the hull planking.  I'll assemble the two halves together first,  then plank it

this was a pain......assembling the winch body.   I had assembled the reels,  and then sandwiched them with the sides of the body,  so I could cement the bottom of it in place.

while I was waiting for things to dry,  I though to assemble the two main structure bases.  I made a mistake on how the sides were located,  so I had to take them apart and correct them.....good thing I saw this before they were completely assembled.

in the end,  I got the pilot house base done.  I added corner brackets to make it a bit stronger.

the forward structure is like a cabin,  with the companionway to go below deck

I would say that this is a form of vent for the cabin structure

brackets were added to the cabin structure, to give it strength as well.......they both are set aside to dry.

meanwhile,  the winch was dry fitted onto the base,  and the two half moon parts were added to the body,  on the larger end.   I will be working on the supplied reels,  to see what can be done.   if they don't look right......I will have to experiment a little to find the look i'm looking for   

I didn't get any pictures of my deck platform goof up.......I thought I had taken some.   I'll show you in the next update.   I'm not sure what upgrades the site underwent.......but it did not bode well for picture uploading.  I had several failed uploads posting these updates.  has anyone else experienced any problems?

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by popeye the sailor
added text

[Old Collingwood]

Thats an interesting looking build you have going on there,  I like the idea of the frame and bulkheads being consructed in two halves - easier to get them straight and lined up that way I would have thought.

 

OC.

[Jim Lad]

Another one half finished already, mate! 

 

John

[lmagna]

Great looking job Denis

 

A number of years ago in a galaxy.......... whops wrong movie. Way back when I built the Billings St. Canute and it was assembled the same way. each side separate and then join the two halves. At the time it seemed to go against all tradition but I gave it a go and I was amazed at how fast it went and how well it turned out. Very clean planking look and no warping at all. You might want to give it a try.

 

Lou

[popeye the sailor]

When I did the AmericA {reissue},  I thought that doing the two halves and then cementing them together,  would pose a seam problem.   I was unsure how to clamp them together,  so the seam would not be visible.  so I assembled the frames first and planked afterwards.......it came out just as well.   I also thought that faring the two separate might cause them to be imbalanced as far as the contour went.   after they were joined together,  it would be too late to correct it.  I've always done the hull frame as a whole........this method seemed alien to me.

 

I did notice that the keel parts were a little warped.....dry fitting the deck platforms revealed how tough it would be to align them.   this was another factor that led to me assembling the two halves together.   when the admiral saw it.....she lamented how small it was.......certainly not a larger model like the Cux,  or the Mary ann.

     as I recall,  the hulls on those two models are around 22 inches long.........the Norden is only about 13 inches long.  I reassured her that this is a small boat,  and as large as the other two.  I also reassured her that I could do just as much with this kit,  as with any other kit she may have picked out.   still,  it was kinda comical to hear her rant,  thinking that I wasn't happy with it.....size wise,  don'tcha know 

 

I got a couple of pictures of the hull frame,  to show my goof up......once planked,  it will all be covered up,  but it's a good lesson about using too much Ca.  perhaps if I didn't lay it down like I did,  it might not have been as bad........but live and learn.   it's minor and I can fix it very easily.   thanks for the good word OC,  John, and Lou.......I hope to have an update on her shortly.   now to go and take Gibbs out.   he was going stark raving mad a short time ago.......two squirrels were playing in the back yard,   and he had a front row seat,  looking out our bedroom window!  news at eleven!

[popeye the sailor]

I did a little tinkering with her this morning,  adding the tops to the structure bases.   I also managed to get a shot of the deck platform...mental note to self....lighten up on the CA!  

totally out of character for me......I'm usually not this careless.   that's what I get for doing something,  and taking off in a rush.   I still need to do more faring,  but I needed to wait for the posts that I had to cement back on,   to dry.  it had the entire week end,  so it should be alright to handle.

I want to see about making some waterways along the bulwarks......and I notice that the bulwark strips do not have scuppers,  so I may add some.   while I was scheming,  I put the tops on the structure bases.

I have an errand to run today {getting some more paints too....hee....hee....hee}........I hope to make a little more progress   

 

[popeye the sailor]

boy!........I must be out of touch or something.......I made another goof up!   I'd better wake my butt up,  or this build is gonna look terrible!   I started to assemble the pilot house.......one of the bases is connected to it.

again....I saved all the punch outs for the windows and doors....I'll use them for something.   I did some sanding to the bulwark posts,  to get them ready to accept the thin plywood bulwark strips.   one of the posts that got broken off by the CA debacle broke away again,  so I'll have to put it back on when the strip is in place.

when the pilot house was dry,  two spreaders were measured out and cemented in the front corners,  completing the box.   they were arranged,  so they wouldn't need to be removed.......if anything,  they will lend extra strength to the assembly as I work on it.  the front wall is made up of three pieces that will give it a sort of hex shape.   to do this,  I thought it best to attach the pilot house to the base,  so that an exact measurement can be made for their location. 

 

this is when I found that I had cemented the top of the base on backwards......the square corners are to be towards the stern,  and the rounded corners are to be towards the bow.  so.......I had to remove the top and reposition it.

it wasn't a huge deal.......the top came off without too much bother.   with a little sanding to clean it up,  the top was cemented in the proper position.   to insure that the pilot house and base are in sync with each other,  it was set on the deck.  the bottom surface is curved to match the curvature in the deck.....I didn't have to clamp it at all.  

I will let the bulwark dry for a while....the strip is kinda stiff and has plenty of spring-back.   I also need to trim it at the center stern post before the port side is cemented on.   when the port side is in place,  then I can work on making the margins for the bulwarks,  and mark out where these structures are to be located.

    

[clearway]

ah good ole Norden- buit this one three times- one as a trawler with a scratchbuilt winch and wheelhouse, and one with just a modified wheelhouse- the third was just out of the box- keep up the good work.

Keith

 

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

thanks Keith.......when I was looking for info on the winch,  I happened onto a site that showed quite a few variants for this type of boat.   I almost used one of them as the subject!   did you add detail to the winches?

 

there is more progress on her......haven't had the chance to post it.   I ended up making an adjustment to the starboard bulwark strip,  at the stern.   it wasn't right, so I pulled it back and did more sanding to the posts.   I did the port side.....but I left the aft section free,  in case I had to adjust it on that side as well.

the front wall was added to the pilot house.   it was a lot easier setting it up,  with the house attached to the base.

the rudder was assembled too.....

I got to work, making the margins......first I set up the deck template over two pieces of 1/32 flat stock.

then I traced it out.   taking the parts panel {template} of the cap rail,  it was laid over the deck and the outer edge was drawn.

I moved it a few times,  so I could trace an even curved outline.  I didn't make it too wide,  boxing in along the bulwarks only.   what I ended up with was this.

removing the two tracings from the board,  the outer line was cut.   trimming the bulwark side is going to be tricky.   when in place on the deck,  these should hide to majority of my Ca boo boo.

I likely won't get too much further with them,  till after Christmas day.   so have a great Christmas folks........I intend to      I'll let you know if Santa left me anything good.....if I get a certain something....you might even hear me!   

[Old Collingwood]

Cant wait to here you screaming "I got a 200 scale Hood............Yippy"

 

Have a great one.

 

OC.

[mtaylor]

I guess I'll need to be up pretty early to hear the scream.  

[Jim Lad]

Just catching up, Popeye - she's looking great in spite of your minor problems along the way!

 

John

[lmagna]

Mark

Should be between 4 and 6 AM our time. I'll probably be awake, my youngest is already counting the hours. (He got a watch for his birthday this year and times EVERYTHING)

 

Merry Christmas to all.

 

Lou 

[popeye the sailor]

thanks for the good word gents.......up first this morning......the admiral is up now,  so the fun is ready to begin   

 

I'll be sure to let you know OC!   

 

you were pretty dead on Lou.......I woke up at 4 AM.....dozed back off and woke again a ten of 6.   I think back to when we were younger and the boys would get up......I miss those days  

 

thanks John......yea,  there were a couple of problems,  but I've found that fixing them is easy on wood projects.  I get done with the deck.....and it will never be seen again!  the beginning is always scary......that is,  until the color goes on     thanks for all the likes folks.......I'm getting nudged......time to open presents and see what Santa brought     

[John Allen]

Denis,

 

Looks great waiting for the scream hope you were very, very, very, very nice To Ms Claus this year  and it is not a lump of coal scream!

[popeye the sailor]

oh......Santa thought I was a REAL good boy     I posted what I got in the 'what did you receive today' thread.   Mak'in me wish I wasn't so bogged down with projects.   

[reklein]

The winch on those boats look a lot like the Alaska gill netter boats used on the Northern rivers for salmon.

[BANYAN]

hey slow down Denis, you work so fast on so many projects I am having trouble following them   

 

Another nice build you have going here.  If I elbow my way in I hope I won't upset any of the audience

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Old Collingwood]

35 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

hey slow down Denis, you work so fast on so many projects I am having trouble following them   

 

Another nice build you have going here.  If I elbow my way in I hope I won't upset any of the audience

 

cheers

 

Pat

Hey pat, you cant have the balcony seat I pre-booked that (even got my own ladder for it)  but heck you can share a seat up there if you want, bringing any nibbles.

 

OC.

[BANYAN]

no problems OC, plenty of nibblies left from Christmas   Hope you're not on a diet

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Old Collingwood]

10 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

no problems OC, plenty of nibblies left from Christmas   Hope you're not on a diet

 

cheers

 

Pat

"Noooooo   Way"    love me food too much.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

gill netting is a possibility Bill.......there is a reference to it later on in the career of these boats.  I've yet to see one that is set up for use or rigged in any way.....love to see how it looks.   the winch set up om the pilot house base is another aspect I'd like to see in some functional way.   these boats are pulled up on the beach when not in use.....I wonder how that pertains to these two winches,  if any.  a lot of questions......haven't had a chance to resume research on them.  seine netting was the main operation for these boat in the 30's

 

glad to have you aboard Pat.......I know.......So many projects,  so little time    I got three more ship kits this year......one in particular is the Nordkap,  the very first model I built.   I'm faced with the same challenge......not laser cut,  and looking for the fitting kit.....it's older than the first.  I sent an e-mail to Billing / Danmark, looking into the possibility of getting the kit,  but I also inquired about another ship that is similar to the Nordkap......the Progress.  I vaguely recall,  but I believe the article I read stated that it was a kit produced by Billing Boats.......if it was,  it would be a very old kit {if ever found}.   

 

good to see you OC...glad to see you made it through the holiday well   

 

started to plank the hull.....hope to have an update soon.  New years is coming up.......Wally decided that we have too much fun on the holidays,  so they've deemed New years day...and Thanksgiving next year as working days.   it's bad enough that they no longer offer paid holidays,  but now the only one they observe will be Christmas day.  pretty bad for a company that supposedly touts family,  as most important.   I've elected to take New years day off,  and of course,  pay myself for it......sad to think this is what the current trend is now. 

[popeye the sailor]

hi there.....HO!   Happy New Years to all you fine folk!  it's been frigid as all get-out up here in the Northeast.......we should see a break come Weds and Thurs though,  just in time for some more snow    the holidays are now past......the tables have been re-set up...and I can resume modeling.  just after Christmas,  I began the planking on the Norden.  I had bought some of those paper holding thingies,  and fashioned them the way I had seen another fellow do them....looked like a super idea.

the planking went well.....in the beginning,  but I'm finding that the strips are splintering here and there.   I should probably soak the whole lot .....that may stop this from happening.  then again,  there will be paint,  so a little filler isn't gonna hurt.

the planking has been slow......short stints at the table..I keep gett'in pulled away.   I got more done by the end of Christmas week.

I'm hoping to get the hull planked this week.......but I've already made a few problems for myself.   the stern bulwark got somewhat crushed by a rogue clamp....I will likely cut that part out and make a piece to fit in it's place.   I've also been cutting out those margins,  but they are proving to be a bit of a problem as well.   I should have made them a little bit wider.  we'll see what happens