HMS Bellona 1760 by SJSoane - Scale 1:64 - English 74-gun - as designed

[garyshipwright]

Looks real good Mark, great job. Keep it  up and you will have the main wale installed in no time flat. Gary

[druxey]

Well done, Mark.

[Mike Y]

Smooth!

Are you planning to highlight the joints somehow? They are so tight that will probably disappear when the wales are finished and dyed black  

[Wintergreen]

Very nice work, Mark.

 

Ah, retirement... only some 15+ years off now...

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Gary and druxey, you both helped me get this far! Håkan, although I am only a few months into retirement, I highly recommend it. A friend described retirement as this: "remember a sunny, summer day during your year between 8th and 9th grade (12-14 years old). That is retirement".

 

Mike, good question about highlighting the joints. I have gone back and forth on this over the years, wanting to show off the joinery, but also thinking about the effect of scale. Looking at a model at 3/16"scale is like looking at the real ship from a good distance away, where joints would not show prominently, if at all. For the same reason, I have been using tinted colors so far, to keep it from looking too intense. At a little distance, a real ships colors are more muted due to the atmospheric effect.

 

My boxing joint at the foot of the stem is an example of no highlighting (2nd photo). However, I did put some pencil graphite in the joints of the capstan step (3rd photo). I may do more of this.

 

But for the wales, I think it will not show anyway. Looking at the 2nd model of the Bellona (shown on the cover of Brian Lavery's book below), the wales are pretty black and uniformly smooth, even with the more muted colors on the gunports and the fore bulkhead. I considered Ed Tosti's solution for his Naiad, which was a dark brown color, but I fancy staying closer to the 18th century model I am emulating. I am taking Ed's advice, and putting together a test panel to try the black stain on the joinery, to see how it looks before settling this altogether.

 

So how will I feel if I put all this work into the joinery, and it does not show except very close up? It is a little like all of the great detail that many projects on this website put into lower decks, knowing that they will never be seen again. At least the ship modeler knows the details are there!

 

I am open to thoughts about this.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

The Lavery book it at: https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Line-History-Models/dp/1591141877/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1516232652&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Ship+of+the+Line%3A+A+History+in+Ship+Models

[mtaylor]

Beautiful work, Mark.  I'm in complete awe of your work.

[Siggi52]

Hello Mark,

 

sorry, but I mostly forget to answer you question. I do not like writing in english, speaking is ok, but writing is an other thing.

 

No, last fall there where less models, from our period, in Greenwich on display. But this year they will open a new wing over three floors and then should be there more models then ever on display. Now there are other models on display then four years before. But in the other display's they have some more ships who where'd there four years before.

 

 

 

That is an other picture of Balchen's Victory now in Greenwich at display. Greetings, Druxey.

 

 

To your last post. I fully agree with you about highlighting the joints. I remember the building of the Hermione, when they have caulked the hull, you could hardly see it. Even from a short distance. There was no black line between the planks. The hemp and the tar have mostly the same color then the wood. 

 

When I build the Dragon, I diluted some tar with turpentine and wipe the deck, ore what else, lightly with it and wipe of all excess. For me it is then ok.

 

At the moment I'm busy with my new model, a 60 gunner after the 1745 establishment. I think that I will start a blog next month, when I could see that it works what I have build till now  

[Mike Y]

I was thinking about this idea, scribing the joints to make them a bit visible. On this model, this approach is taken to extreme:

 

Will try something like this on my wales, but very subtle. Though it will require some practice - glue and wood grain will make it hard to make a clear line. Maybe just scraping the wale part with a blade or chisel before the glue-up will work better.

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Mark, for the kind comment. I continue to be inspired by your phrase, "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." That applies to me big time! Even with more time to commit to the project, it still seems to take me forever to get each piece on the hull.

 

And thanks, Siggi, for the update on the collections in London. It sounds like they might finally do the right thing and put more of that priceless collection on display. And I look forward to seeing your new project, the 60 gun 1745 establishment. Will it be a full hull?

 

Best,

 

Mark

[SJSoane]

Hi Mike,

I agree, that example has too much joint showing for my taste. If you experiment with some ideas, I would very much like to see them!

Mark

[Siggi52]

Hello Mark,

yes, it will be the whole ship this time. But without rigging and the hull in the bulwark technic. I first thought that a 60 gunner might be not so large as a 70 gunner. Yes, but only a little.  

[druxey]

Joints eventually 'read' through either paint or dye, due to seasonal wood movement. I wouldn't be too concerned about accentuating the joints.

[Sailor1234567890]

What's the purpose of those hooked scarphs the whole length of the wale? Why not simply use straight planks?

[JohnReid]

It's called anchor stock planking which increases the strength of the wales.I didn't put them on my 1:72 Victory but I wish now that I had as mine is unpainted and they would show.Back in 1973, I thought that it would take too much time,little did I know then that the build would take up about 6,000 of shop time alone plus research.(no internet)Cheers! John.

Edited January 19, 2018 by JohnReid

[JohnReid]

17 hours ago, SJSoane said:

Hi Mike,

I agree, that example has too much joint showing for my taste. If you experiment with some ideas, I would very much like to see them!

Mark

I agree too,not my taste either.

 

[SJSoane]

Hi Sailor,

 

As John points out, the hooks give greater strength to the wales, preventing them from sliding fore and aft relative to each other. As I understand it, the ships tended to droop at the head and stern--this is called "hogging"--due to the greater buoyancy at midships relative to the two ends. The wale curves up to help counteract this hogging. The wales are in tension, pulled along their lengths, to resist the hogging. And so the hooks help keep the wales from pulling apart along their lengths when they are under strain.  

 

Even on the model, these provide surprisingly effective longitudinal strength. I understand the hooks were only used on larger ships, presumably due to the greater forces at play on a longer hull.

 

Mark

Edited January 19, 2018 by SJSoane
typos

[Mark P]

8 hours ago, JohnReid said:

It's called anchor stock planking which increases the strength of the wales

Hi John;

 

Sorry,  but this style is actually called 'hook and butt' planking.  Anchor stock is similar,  but doesn't have the hooks.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[Hubac's Historian]

Wow! This looks like a superb and clean build.  The fairing of your lines is excellent!  I will be following along.

 

All the best,

Marc

[SJSoane]

Thank you, Marc, for your words of encouragement, and I enjoyed your tag line of "we are all works in progress, all of the time." Applies to us and our models.

 

Once I rounded the bows and began placing planks further aft, I realized that the wale dips below the lower gundeck at midships; and therefore, my clamps from above would no longer work. So I rummaged through my box of old tools, and recovered the clamps I had made almost 20 years ago to clamp up the growing sandwich of frames in the admiralty framing system.

 

I ran these through the open frames athwartships, and they worked perfectly to clamp from below. I just have to be very careful not to nick the frames when I pass the threaded rod through. I wrapped them in tape to help avoid the worst damage.

 

Mark

 

 

[druxey]

Coming along nicely, Mark. It just occurred to me (duh!) that one could install the black strake first; then one would not need to remove the batten above the wale.

[SJSoane]

Hi druxey,

 

Yes, you are right! I wish I had thought of that. Oh, well, when I do my next 25 year long 74 gun ship, I will get the order right!

 

Mark

[garyshipwright]

Hi Mark. Shes looking good sir. Was wondering how you was going to clamp the planks in place when you mounted them. Looking good. Gary

[SJSoane]

Hi Gary,

 

I did not think this through many years ago, when I got all exciting about putting in the gundeck before messing with the wales. I can see the value at this point of doing the wales first, since my framing system does not easily allow of clamps above the wales. But there is always a way, if only we stop to think about it a while!

 

Mark

[SJSoane]

I am making steady progress on the wales. My old clamps are proving quite serviceable for this; I have started to run them through gunports as I get further astern and they no longer reach from below. The last photo shows why Gary's idea of a batten is such a good one. There are numerous little pieces around the pierced gunports, and I can see they will easily go astray without a constant guide from stem to stern including going over the gunports.

 

Mark

[AON]

I don't know if I should be looking at your ship or your shop.

Both make me jealous.

Edited January 23, 2018 by AON

[SJSoane]

Hi Alan,

A nice thing about retiring is that it put us into a one story house, which means I have windows in the shop. The bad thing about retiring is that there is less sand in the top of the hourglass, which creates a greater sense of wanting to get things done!

 

Mark

[dvm27]

Mark, if you're going to continue doing work of this quality (which obviously you are) you must take some of that hoarded retirement income and invest in a camera with macro capabilities and post higher resolution photographs. I had no doubt you were going to solve the wale planking issue flawlessly and we all want to see your work close up to find those .001" gaps you must have somewhere. I mean, you are human aren't you?!?!

[SJSoane]

Hi Greg,

 

I am like an aging film star; no closeups, soft filters on the lens required!

 

But in a Hollywood-like expose, here to reveal all, is a closeup of the plank I just glued one, before sanding. You can see all my dark secrets.  The re-drilling of the temporary batten, the stain on the hull that has been there for 10 years and I have no idea where it came from, and most important, the seams opening up between frames in places.

 

These seams open up in the winter, with the lower humidity, and close in the summer. This is a classic problem of cross grain construction, where the wood expands and contracts much more at right angles to the grain than it does lengthwise. I measured this seasonal change at 3/16" to ¼" over the length of the hull. Good wood construction argues for avoiding this, or using slotted screw holes on wood at right angles to the grain; otherwise, the construction can tear itself apart.

 

This is obviously not possible in this project, with deck clamps, wales, spirketting, planking all glued on at right angles to the frames. But several centuries of this construction methods seems to have worked, and I hope it will work for me. The humidity shifts are not nearly as severe here in Montana as they were in Colorado, so  I see less annual movement already. And cross fingers, the planking above the wales still to come should cover up my other dark secrets...

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

[druxey]

Yes, wood movement can be a problem. Can you humidify in winter and dehumidify in summer to keep the RH reasonable constant?

 

That stain looks like a water-stain. If it will be exposed in the finished model you could try to damp sponge it off.

 

Lovely work on that wale!

[SJSoane]

Hi druxey,

 

A few years ago in Denver, I put a humidifier in the shop and it didn't seem to make a huge difference. But I did manage to start rust on tools, so I quit. Moving to Montana certainly has helped with higher humidity. Maybe the Admiralty models did not have this problem because it is more reliably damp in London more of the time.🙂

 

My posted picture raises a new question that I have not yet faced on this project. This plank is cut by the gunport. I started filing to fit before installation, and then it occurred to me that I ought to be using the gunport itself as a guide for filing the piece to final fit after it is glued in. This will be the same situation with all of the planking when it hits the sides of the ports. Are there any best practices for filing to the port without accidentally filing the side of the port itself? Masking tape on the inside faces of the ports?

 

Mark