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Posted

Hi Nils

Yes, I hope so. At the moment I lean towards a slightly altered Pickle.

To correct that ugly stern and the placing of the masts (in my opinion the foremast should move a bit forward) I think of using plans of a similar schooner from NMM.

 

Hi Martin and Timmo

thanks

 

Cheers

Peter

Posted

The fore topsail is one of the largest sails. It was therefore again reduced in size by 40%. Then it was bent to the yard and the yard brought to the foremast in a similar way as the main topsail yard. A buntline was again installed in addition to the rigging according to the kit’s plans. I was running out of space on the bitts as more and more rigging lines were belayed on it and I decided to finish all the running rigging of the foremast before coiling up the lines.

 

post-504-0-62945500-1409671393_thumb.jpg

Fore topsail ready to be bent it to its yard

 

 

post-504-0-19972700-1409671394_thumb.jpg

Detail of the fore topsail

 

 

post-504-0-84713600-1409671394_thumb.jpg

Ready to furl

 

 

post-504-0-83874400-1409671410_thumb.jpg

Parrels and ties installed

 

post-504-0-08089700-1409671412_thumb.jpgpost-504-0-27148000-1409671413_thumb.jpg

Running rigging finished (for now, braces will follow later)

 

 

Posted

The fore topgallant sail was reduced in size by 30%. This is the same amount as on the main topgallant sail. On future projects I will probably reduce all furled sails by 40% but here I will stick to the slightly larger variant to keep the proportions.

 

post-504-0-45775700-1409671697_thumb.jpg

The sail maker is already working on the fore topgallant sail

 

Posted

Hi Peter -- great action shots, as always.  Congratulations on getting your running rigging done.  Smooth sailmaking from now on!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Current Build:  HMS FLY 1776

 

Previous Builds:  Rattlesnake 1781

                        Prince de Neufchatel

Posted

I just love the way you have handled the furled sails, I am at that stage on my Bounty build and rest assured I will be using your inspiration and techniques...thanks

 

HMAV Bounty 'Billings' completed  

HMS Cheerful - Syren-Chuck' completed :)

Steam Pinnace 199 'Billings bashed' - completed

HMS Ledbury F30 --White Ensign -completed 😎

HMS Vanguard 'Victory models'-- completed :)

Bismarck Amati 1/200 --underway  👍


 

 

 

Posted

Looks very good Peter,

 

I may look up your rigging pics for cross reference now and then

 

Nils

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

Posted

Hi Martin

 

Unfortunately only the running rigging for that sail is done. On the other hand there are only 3 more yards remaining to finish and of those, the spritsail yard, will carry no sail – only the upper sprit topsail will be there in furled condition.

And then only two jibs will remain and the finishing of the deck equipment with spare spars and boats and the gun port lids, the lantern, the hammock nets, all the braces on the lower yards and a few odds and ends – yes, I’m nearly there. But seriously, I can begin to think about the next build as it should start in less than a year. :)

 

 

Hi Ian

 

Thank you for the compliment. I’m glad, if I can be of any help.

 

 

Hi Nils

 

Sure. But of course there are still mistakes and shortcuts in my rigging. If in doubt, feel free to ask.

 

 

Cheers

Peter

Posted

Ok, it's done for only the first one.  But now you can get the rhythm going, since you've figured out the biggest problems, or at least the first set of big problems.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Current Build:  HMS FLY 1776

 

Previous Builds:  Rattlesnake 1781

                        Prince de Neufchatel

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Just thought I'd let you know that using your furling method, I actually got a almost presentable furled sail.  Still more practice to go; and I think I used too much Tacky Glue.  The sail is stiffer than when I started.  But I am encouraged.

Many thanks to your site for all the help.

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Hello Peter.

Wonderful model. A true inspiration. 

I bought this model half built some time ago and I'm now at the rigging stage. I have a question about the Futtock Staves. Did you tie them to every shroud or just to a few? I'm worried I'll end up with a big lump of knots with all the rope meeting there.

 

Cheers

Mr. Pucko

 

Building:

Royal Caroline - Panart

Nuestra Senora del Pilar - Occre

Bounty - Occre

Titanic - Amati

Endeavour - AL

Santissima Trinidad cross section - Occre

Posted

Hi Martin

 

:)  :)  :)

 

 

Hi Ken

 

Thank you for the compliments – using me as a reference is a big one.

The visit I paid to your Fair American was well worth it. That’s a lovely vessel and a fine build. I found that ‘Amati cloth’ you used for sails very interesting. It seems thin and light which is perfect. But on the other hand the texture of the fabric is still too visible for that scale. That means the search for the perfect cloth continues.

But anyhow – ‘…almost presentable sail…’ might be a tiny little bit of slight underestimation of your own work.

 

 

Hi Pucko

 

Thank you for the visit and the compliments.

Sorry for the long time it took to answer but I was abroad again.

No, just to about every second shroud to avoid the problem you mention.

 

 

Cheers

Peter

Posted (edited)

The sail was attached to the yard and that to the mast similar to the main topgallant sail. No special problems there.

 

Only that I found somewhere halfway through this work that I did overlook the bowlines which the plans show attached to the bare yard but of course should have been bent to the sails before furling them. Well, you live and learn (and use bad language).

 

It is another fine detail of the kit to include them in the plans and I will find a way to include them in my build.

 

I’m now finishing all the lines and ropes which are belayed along the centre line (centerline for those who don’t have the happiness to count themselves as one of Her Majesties subjects) and continue then outwards and forward finishing the rigging.

 

post-504-0-62588300-1412254295_thumb.jpg      post-504-0-14738600-1412254298_thumb.jpg

Edited by flyer
Posted

Gorgeous work!  I love the look of furled sails as you know.  I think I'm going to add a mix of furled and full sails on my Pegasus build, modifying my furled sail technique with your improvements.  Thanks for sharing!

Mike

 

Current Wooden builds:  Amati/Victory Pegasus  MS Charles W. Morgan  Euromodel La Renommèe  

 

Plastic builds:    Hs129B-2 1/48  SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48  Five Star Yaeyama 1/700  Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama  Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32   IJN Notoro 1/700  Akitsu Maru 1/700

 

Completed builds :  Caldercraft Brig Badger   Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle  Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700   Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350

F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72  Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48  Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48  Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72

Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya  Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16

 

Terminated build:  HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn)  

 

On the shelf:  Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits

 

Future potential scratch builds:  HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)

Posted

Hi Peter,

 

Lovely work on the sails mate, I don't have any sails on my Aggie and it's too late but you make want to put them on my next build.

 

Thanks for showing your method.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

mobbsie
All mistakes are deliberate ( me )


Current Build:- HMS Schooner Pickle

 

Completed Builds :-   Panart 1/16 Armed Launch / Pinnace ( Completed ),  Granado Cross Section 1/48

Harwich Bawley, Restoration,  Thames Barge Edme, Repair / Restoration,  Will Everard 1/67 Billings 

HMS Agamemnon 1781 - 1/64 Caldercraft KitHM Brig Badger,  HM Bomb Vessel Granado,
Thames Steam Launch Louise,  Thames Barge Edme,  Viking Dragon Boat


Next Build :-  

Posted (edited)

Hello Peter,

 

your rigging Looks very well, and I again took a dive into your log......

 

I have two questions,

a) noticed that you install a jib stay attached to a traveller (neighther shown nor mentioned  in Amati drawing). Is the seperate jib stay always used in combination with the jib sail, instead of attaching the jib to the fore topgallant stay ?

I can imagine that Setting the jib (Access to...) is easier when it is hauled out on the jib boom per outhauler lineand over sheave roll in sprit-boom tip. Also the common sail lateral Point can be set a Little Foreward or aft to trim the ship on course by opperating the traveller

 

B) as the seperate jib stay (when the traveller is hauled out) would require some additional length compared to inhauled Position, you probably have arranged for a sheave roll in the upper foremast, for allowing the appropriate jib stay tension as well as an block supported  tackle down on deck ?

 

Nils

Edited by Mirabell61

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

Posted

Hi Mobbsie

 

Thank you (and all of you) for the appreciation of my sail work. That really helps through the tedious part of sailmaking.

 

Take care

Peter

Posted

Hallo Nils

 

Yes, according to James Lees, it seems the jib was, after its introduction around 1705, either set flying or after about 1719 on the jibstay. The stays lower end was being seized to a thimble on the traveler while its upper end rove through a block stropped to the topmast cap on the starboard side. It was then led down to the stool abaft the fore channels where on small ships it was hitched around a deadeye. Its size was about 0.5 of the fore topmast stay.

 

What you say about shifting the traveler to change the position of the center of the force on that sail to balance the ship is excellent – I never thought about that possibility. You think like a structural engineer. On the ‘upper’ end of the jibstay (which is hitched around that deadeye) you could have some excess length to adjust to the shifting of the traveler. On larger ships, by the way, that end of the jibstay was secured by means of a fall which made adjustments even easyer.

Very interesting questions!

 

Take care

Peter

Posted

Peter,

 

thank you so much for your explaining comments relating to the jib and its rigging.

Unfortunately I am not Holding the volume IV of David Antscherl`s Rigging the Swan Class, which probably may have given the one or other answer as well, but with your Kind comments I see I`m not laying wrong there.

The Position and size of all of the stay sails and spanker is also a bit of tummy Feeling, but I trust I`m not too wrong with it. I wish Amati would have provided an extra sheet for all sail rigging.

The reason for doing (preparing for) spanker and staysail rigging as next sequence is for better Access to rigging-  and belaying Points before the Yards and squaresails are rigged on.

 

Nils

post-3445-0-81110900-1413313114_thumb.jpg

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

Posted

Hi Mike

 

Thank you for the compliments and I’m really looking forward to a build with the quality of yours showing sails!

 

Take care

Peter

Posted

Hi Nils

 

There is a lot of information about the size of the stay sails in the mentioned James Lees’ The masting and rigging of English ships of war.

I noticed that it is still available on Amazon for 75$ in used condition. I bought my copy in the museum shop of the USS Constitution and don’t remember what I actually paid but the price printed in the book is 40£. If you could squeeze it into your budget I would highly recommend buying the book.

The size of your sails accomplished with the help of your tummy however looks right to me although I didn’t check all the measurements.

 

While strolling through the wharf I managed to take some pictures of the jibstay…

 

post-504-0-15504400-1413368321_thumb.jpg

lower end of the jibstay on the traveller

 

post-504-0-45773700-1413368331_thumb.jpg

'upper' end of the jibstay hitched around the lower deadeye of the starboard topmast backstay

 

Take care

Peter

Posted

While I was trying to install all the rigging which is belayed somewhere on the centerline simultaneously I realized that also the spare spars and the boats must be set on their place at the same time...

 

post-504-0-99960500-1413369014_thumb.jpg

Lashing the spare spars

 

 

post-504-0-53832700-1413369015_thumb.jpg

Working on lashing the spare spars while tripping over all the loose ends. It’s high time the bosun has that deck tidied a bit...

Posted

Hi Peter,

 

I very much like your pic illustrations and thank you for your comments along with These. I`ll be on watchout for the James lees book

 

Nils

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

Posted

Peter,

 

As usual nice update. As Nils mentioned great pic. compositions...

 

Michael

Michael

Current buildSovereign of the Seas 1/78 Sergal

Under the table:

Golden Hind - C Mamoli    Oseberg - Billings 720 - Drakkar - Amati

Completed:   

Santa Maria-Mantua --

Vasa-Corel -

Santisima Trinidad cross section OcCre 1/90th

Gallery :    Santa Maria - Vasa

 

 

 

 

Posted

Peter,

 

your Suggestion to look out for that book....., I found a second Hand one from a dutch antiquariate (already ordered) at a good reasonable Price, am curious to hold it in Hands and to study it in a couple of days.

Many thanks for your tip

 

Nils

Current builds

-Lightship Elbe 1

Completed

- Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild

"Zeesboot"  heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB  clinker scratch build scale 1:24

Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE  ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild

Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build

Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) 

"SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild)
"HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan 

-"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96  (scratchbuild)

-"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) 

"Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild)  original was my grandfathers ship

-"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 

"Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32

under restoration / restoration finished 

"Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50

Posted

For my Badger sails, I relied heavily on Lees and TFFM Vol. 4.  TFFM Vol. 4 cites to Lees often (and Steel if I remember correctly), so it was more like a compilation of sources based on the author's research.  Both were very helpful :)

Mike

 

Current Wooden builds:  Amati/Victory Pegasus  MS Charles W. Morgan  Euromodel La Renommèe  

 

Plastic builds:    Hs129B-2 1/48  SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48  Five Star Yaeyama 1/700  Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama  Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32   IJN Notoro 1/700  Akitsu Maru 1/700

 

Completed builds :  Caldercraft Brig Badger   Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle  Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700   Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350

F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72  Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48  Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48  Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72

Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya  Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16

 

Terminated build:  HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn)  

 

On the shelf:  Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits

 

Future potential scratch builds:  HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

Have you cut your reduced version of the spanker sail yet?  I'm interested in its shape and any other tips you might have.

Thanks.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Completed Builds:

Pilot Boat Mary  (from Completed Gallery) (from MSW Build)

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Well, I took some time to respond to the last posts and the wharf was rather quiet as well.

 

The reason is that I experienced a radical change in my life: After my last flight (to Singapore) I’m now a retired skipper with a lot more time for shipbuilding. That change was celebrated with a two-week-stay on the beaches of Florida. There weren’t many ship models to see – the Mel-Fisher-Museum in Key West shows a lot of very interesting artefacts but only one, rather simple, ship model – but the sea was lovely and most of the mojitos as well – again cheers to Sir Francis Drake! :cheers:

 

After 34 years of fortunately accident- free flying I’ll be earthbound again (but plan to remain a flyer in that forum) and will happily enjoy my freedom of any fleet chief pilots or board members  (and plan to find out if there will be more time for shipbuilding or if it’s true that retired gentlemen have no time at all...).

 

post-504-0-94219300-1416324684_thumb.jpg

Last flight into Singapore...

Posted

Back to serious business...

 

The spritsail yard (no sail) is being hanged onto the bowsprit. I try to finish the last of the rigging in a working order that enables me good access to the actual belaying points without blocking the way to future ones – and sometimes nearly am successful.

 

post-504-0-70527500-1416325452_thumb.jpg

Spritsail yard being attached

Posted

Hi Nils

 

Glad to be able to help a bit.

Actually I am really curious about how your superb build will look after  you assimilated all that information … ;):)

 

Cheers

Peter

Posted

Hi Michael

 

Just lucky shots, I think…

Thanks anyway.

 

Peter

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