Revenge 1577 by Jonathan_219 - FINISHED - Amati Models - 1/64

[Jonathan_219]

Picture of the bow planking at the bottom. The bow planking has certainly been the most difficult to get right. Adding to this difficulty was that the plank did not reach all the way to the keel on my first second plank (lower wale plank). I decided not to try and splice but to add a couple of pieces at a 90° angle to the planking, I thought I had seen something similar to this somewhere but I'm not too sure about it after it's all done. I haven't trimmed these pieces yet as I'm not sure exactly where they'll stop since I probably need to add a piece to cover up a small gap between the deck planking and the hull. I think I'm too far in now to change much now but hopefully the rest will fall in place as I work to the bottom.

 

As you can see from the picture the second planking is going ok. It's not as perfect as I'd like but I think when I do a final sand and stain it'll be acceptable. There are still times when as I'm adding the plank I just can't get it to completely butt against the previous plank leaving a slight space between the planks. I've been gluing the first 15-20 mm at the bow starting where the plank touches the keel and then working back to the stern in 100mm or so sections. 

 

I built a small rig to try and help cut the tapers on the planks as trying to cut smoothly just hand holding a ruler was pretty much impossible for me. I used some of the wood from the kit to create a channel that the plank would lay in to keep it from moving side to side and then I clamp the plank strip and the ruler. I also added a couple stops for the ruler to rest against to create the same taper on each piece. I calculated the taper by measuring the distance between the top and bottom areas of planking at the widest spot and several spots moving to the bow. Even with the rig cutting a smooth taper is not easy and I'm sure some of the issues I'm having with meeting the previous plank perfectly are from imperfect cuts. I do try to sand any waves out of the cut and trim and sand the back corners to help get that tight fit of each plank. The instructions say to carefully fill any spots before painting as painting is a lot less forgiving than staining and I hope that's true since I'm planning on staining and I'm sure there will be some spots that have tiny gaps even after final sanding.

 

At this point I'm continuing to work on finishing the second planking on the hull and then work up to all the parts I can do for now.

[Louie da fly]

Hi Jonathan,

 

I'd say the main concern with those pieces you've glued at right angles at the bow is that the grain is running at right angles to the grain of the planks and it will show, particularly if you're planning to stain rather than paint. I don't understand why these planks are so much shorter than they should be, but you might be best re-doing. If you do, I'd suggest you keep those two planks either side in position but cut them considerably shorter and offset their ends to suggest that they end at different frames, as was done in planking on real ships of the time (full size planks were normally about 20 feet long, but the ends were offset so they didn't all have joins at the same frame - there's a good photo of this at

 

What kind of glue are you using? PVA (white) glue can be dissolved using isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol, commonly known as rubbing alcohol), and I'v been told (though I haven't tried it myself) that nail polish remover will dissolve CA (superglue).

 

Other than that, your planking looks good. From your photo it looks like though you followed the kit's instructions for your first planking (with that sudden transition near the bow between the planking below and above the waterline), but you're doing the second layer of planking as was done on real ships (as in the photo in the link above). Well done, sir!

 

Overall, going well. Keep it up - you're going to ed up with a model to be proud of.

[Jonathan_219]

Thanks Steven, I'm sure the pieces at the right angle will show that way once stain is applied but I'm hoping that the Hawes? coverings over the anchor holes will cover that up. I can't find in the instructions where it tells me to put them on or which pieces they might be but they're clearly visible in the pictures of that area. Hopefully I'll get lucky and it will cover my mistake.

[Louie da fly]

I think you're right - the hawse coverings might do the job. The photo below is from the Amati Revenge build by drobinson02199 (which I'm sure you're already aware of) and it looks like you're onto something. It'd certainly make life a lot easier.

 

[Jonathan_219]

Hull Planking Bottom done:

 

I've been working through all the issues I've had planking, especially near the bow and I'm sure that most of the issues have been caused my my lack of experience with hull planking. Everything else so far has been something that I feel that with a few tools, patience and attention to detail I can complete without knowing too much going in. That's certainly not true with hull planking, every plank you position and shape affects every plank that comes after that and I just can't visualize what's going to happen so I have gone astray several times. I've broken pretty much every rule getting finished but kept hoping that as long as I had fairly tight fits it would all work out in the end. There were a couple planks in particular where they got narrow and then wide and then narrow again before going back to full size that I'm sure would never be on a real ship, but it is what it is and I was able to finish.

 

I sanded a lot as I was planking just to make sure that I wasn't completely off so once I got the last plank in final sanding wasn't bad. I need to continue the planking up a bit higher but I wanted to stain what I had so I'd know if it was all going to work out and so I added the stain, Special Walnut. The keel is a dark walnut so there's a nice contrast and since I'm not planning to paint below the waterline I'll have to decide what color I'll stain the rudder and rudderpost.  Since the rudderpost looks like an extension of the keel I'll probably stain it to match the keel, but I haven't decided what to do with the rudder yet.

 

I'm really looking forward to doing something that isn't planking for a bit.

[Louie da fly]

A nice achievement, and a good milestone, Jonathan. Sure, you're aware of the faults- but looking at the photos I have to say unless they inspect it with a magnifying glass nobody else will be. They will fade into the background as you progress with the rest of the build, and you've had very valuable planking experience that will stand you in good stead for the next model and the next . . 

 

Congratulations, mate.

[Cathead]

13 hours ago, Jonathan_219 said:

I'm really looking forward to doing something that isn't planking for a bit

I think we all feel that way when a hull is nearing completion. To my eyes you've done a nice job, we're always our own worst critics. I get better with every model.

[Jonathan_219]

Gun Deck Finishing and Rudder:

 

I finished installing the rudder and it was just like the instructions stated, no issues.  I have found out since that if the Whipstaff goes all the way to one side or the other that the tiller arm can come out from it but it's easy to put back in by just going all the way to one side again. I may try to see if there's a way to put a stop in place to prevent that from happening once that deck is covered up as it could be a real pain to put back in if I couldn't grab the Whipstaff securely. I did have to cut a piece out of scrap to bring the end of the keel to the same level as the back of the stern deck so the rudderpost could sit flush against the back but I'm pretty sure that was just a relic of me not being precise enough earlier on. Just glued it on and sanded it back to fit flush with the planking. In the pictures the pins I used to attach the hinges to the rudder are still brass and I think I'll probably end up touching those up with black paint but I thought I look at it for a while before deciding.

 

The cannons and deck coverings for the gun deck were straightforward with one exception. When doing test fits of the cannons in the default build the cannon pointed so high up that it often was touching the top of the gunport and I didn't like that so I cut short pieces of some old lime wood that was 4x1.5mm and placed that in the carriage where the butt of the gun rests to push the back up 1.5mm and the front down a bit. That gave, to my eyes at least, a much more pleasing angle for the cannons to poke out of the gunports. I scotch taped a cannon to each carriage and then was able to eyeball the position as I glued each carriage in place. I just placed most of the cannons to get a look at things and to take a picture before removing the cannons and starting on the next deck.

[Louie da fly]

Looking very good, Jonathan. I like your solution to the deck height and the angle of the cannon barrels (back in the day they used wedges under the rea of the barrel to adjust elevation).

 

Regarding the whipstaff, maybe a wire loop or something of the sort to join the whipstaff to the tiller flexibly enough to allow free movement, but configured to keep them from separating?

[Bossman]

Jonathan, for your first attempt at modelling you are doing an excellent job! Nice work.

[Jonathan_219]

Main Deck, Stern Bulkhead Windows:

 

Planked the main deck just like the others and glued the three deck pieces in place. Dry fitting the quarterdeck and realized I needed to get the stern window piece in place to check the fit so I went ahead and completed the windows and glued them in. I placed small strips on the back side of the bulkhead to give the windows something to rest against and that also eliminated any light coming through the tiny spaces between the window grates and the frame so two birds with one stone. On the main deck I decided to cut the cross pieces in the hatch opening and just place the cover piece on it later, at this point I thought I'd stay consistent with that.

 

I also realized that the hole in the quarterdeck for the whipstaff will prevent it from going so far to one side that it could slip out so I don't need to create anything to make sure that doesn't happen. One time when dry fitting the quarterdeck every time I'd try to get one side down the other side would pop up and I finally saw that I didn't have the whipstaff in the hole and it was pivoting on it, it's a lucky turn that I didn't break it because I was pushing it pretty hard. 

 

Everything seems pretty straightforward after fighting with the hull planking for so long, deck planking is a breeze. Looking forward to getting the quarterdeck on and planking it.

 

[Louie da fly]

Coming along very nicely, and it's good to see you solving problems as they arise (which seems to be a major part of ship modelling )

[Jonathan_219]

Quarterdeck planking and Lanterns:

 

I decided to put the center deck plank on the quarterdeck before gluing it in place, that piece is so critical to my deck planking and I didn't think it would cause any issues putting it in place first. Now I wish I had planked out from the center over the hatch openings before gluing in place it would have been so much easier to trim everything up nice and neat and I don't think it would have affected getting the quarterdeck in place. The quarterdeck is a tricky one with the last bulkhead at an angle, getting everything in place to drop down requires some pushing and pulling. I did fewer dry tests just because I didn't want to have it snap while moving it in and out so I did a couple and then went with it.

 

The lanterns are pretty tiny but thanks to being extremely nearsighted I could work on them without any real issues. I've put four of them in place above the gun deck (can see a couple in the picture) and I'm holding on to the other as I figure out where I want to put them. The quarterdeck is about half planked and I should be able to finish that pretty quickly.

 

 

[Jonathan_219]

Quarterdeck and forecastle deck planking and Helmsman Canopy:

 

Finished planking the forecastle and quarterdeck and glued the forecastle deck to the ship, All went as planned. Can't say the same for the Helmsman Canopy all of which was due to my clumsiness and bad decisions. When I was gluing the four sides together I was having trouble getting them to stay square while the glue set enough to hold things in place so I decided I'd put a clamp to hold it steady. As soon as I released the clamp (spring loaded) the pressure broke the front side with pieces sproinging everywhere. I looked and looked but never found the upper arch which holds up the roof so I had to make a new one, I did find the piece that came out of the hole in the front section so it had the right curve and all I needed to do was cut a piece the right width and glue it in place. The piece broke as I was cutting it out but it was a clean break that could be glued back together so I proceeded to move forward. I think I broke that piece at least three more times but I finally got enough roof structure to give it some strength and surprisingly if I didn't know what had happened I don't think I'd be able to tell. 

 

The instruction say to use 1x2mm wood strips to do the corners and roof but in the pictures they look suspiciously like 1x3mm stripe, at least on the roof so I decided to use 1x2 on the corners and 1x3 on the roof. The 1x3 in the kit is Walnut and it's much harder than anything I've worked with before but it seemed to go OK and when I stained the roof it looks really good, not sure if you'll be able to tell in the picture but there is a lot of nice coloring in the wood now and I like the look. I haven't decided whether I'm going to put a base around it or just glue it straight to the deck, it's another one of those things I'll consider before pulling the trigger and there's a lot to do before it matters.

 

I also went back and did the bases for the two small swivel cannons on the quarterdeck and they went in with no issues.

 

 

[md1400cs]

Jonathan,

 

Just a suggestion. You might want to use this to add clear windows to your stern area - It looks as if your frames are plastic, so it should work well. Airliner model builders sometimes use this for all the windows..

Just a thought

[Jonathan_219]

Thanks for the idea on the windows, no idea something like that existed. The frames are metal but I think it would work the same way. I'm not sure I could even get to those windows without tearing some things apart but I'll give it some consideration.

[md1400cs]

Jonathan,

 

Hmmm Metal could be an issue? I tried experimenting with that idea on my current Sergal Sovereign, with their large solid bronze lanterns (from their 80s original kit metal bits). Did not go well.

The Testors product dried opaque and greenish. There was an interaction with the metal. It was a mess to remove from one of the five lanterns that I experimented with. Have not thought of plan B. In your case just adding some clear plastic behind might be better???

[Jonathan_219]

Thanks for the heads up on the metal, if I decide I want something there I'll probably do a plastic sheet which I've done before. The holes are tiny enough on this window that I don't thing having something there is a big deal although maybe I'll think differently as more of it comes together.

[Bill Morrison]

Stunning work!  The Amati kit seems exceptional!

 

Bill

[rcweir]

19 hours ago, md1400cs said:

Jonathan,

 

Hmmm Metal could be an issue? I tried experimenting with that idea on my current Sergal Sovereign, with their large solid bronze lanterns (from their 80s original kit metal bits). Did not go well.

The Testors product dried opaque and greenish. There was an interaction with the metal. It was a mess to remove from one of the five lanterns that I experimented with. Have not thought of plan B. In your case just adding some clear plastic behind might be better???

I used "Glue 'n Glaze" successfully on both brass and resin surfaces.  It's been about a year so far on the Peary and still looks good.   The brass was painted beforehand with acrylic.

 

Bob

 

[md1400cs]

Bob,

 

Great - on my list - big thanks!!

[Jonathan_219]

Bow Bulkhead decoration and door:

 

The bulkhead was a challenge, mostly gluing the wood strips across the face. The curve required, especially in the top two, made getting them in place and holding them while the glue dried tough. I tried wood and CA glue but the CA glue attempt popped off with just a touch after I had it on so I went with wood glue, it gives more time to get things in the proper place but have to balance getting enough glue to hold it in place without getting so much that it oozes out everywhere on the sides causing cosmetic issues. I did find that any small blobs of glue that popped out the side didn't have to be removed immediately but I could get them with one of my dental tools and the glue would just roll off the paper as long as it wasn't completely dry. That gave me some time to hold them in place long enough for the glue to set but not so long I couldn't get the glue excess off. I tried getting clamps on but moving my fingers off let the wood move and break whatever bond had been forming setting everything back so I became the human clamp for a while. It looks like the other three pieces to do now all have less arc than this one so I'm hoping I will be able to get in place easier. The stern bulkhead look like it has a lot of curve and I'll have to think about that, I had even tried pre-bending the pieces but that didn't seem to work with the wood it has for this (Walnut).

 

The door is all spray painted, I used my dental tool again to remove the paint from the ribs in the doors. I added the touch of red on the sides as that area seemed to want some more detail and I wish I could have figured out how to do something with the detailing on the top arch but it seemed like it would take some freehand and I'm strictly a tape and spray painter at this point. Now that I've figured out a process I'll probably batch the rest of the doors.

 

One note for anyone not to this point on this kit yet, I made a mistake trimming the brass door frame, there's a two level decoration that's also in the wood frame and I thought the second level part was part of the excess connecting material so I trimmed that off. It left me with either cutting the whole thing off or leaving half of it missing, I decided to take the whole thing off but will be careful not to maim the door frame on the next one I remove from the brass assembly. I thought about trying to paint the front of the wood frame in that area the same color I painted the brass and I'll see about that, I may still do it.

 

 

[Jonathan_219]

Second bulkhead and paper touch up:

 

Finished the second bulkhead just like the first but one thing I did discover that might be useful to others is a way to touch up the paper patterns if you get a slight flaw, which was always a white or lighter spot than the rest. I have had a couple of very small white spots show up in the patterns where I tried to remove some glue that had dried too much. The only colors I've had to do that in were the red and the green but I had the advantage of a full set of color Prismacolor pens so I thought I'd see if I could touch them up, they were very tiny but if a flaw can be fixed why not? For the red I found that Peach PM-170 worked perfectly and for the green Apple Green PM-167 also worked perfectly. These colors look much lighter than the colors in the patterns but they work. A tiny touch of the fine marker on a white spot and it disappeared, couldn't even tell where it was. Pretty sure these can be ordered individually but looking online I'm not sure the fine tip is still like the one in the picture, my pen set is probably 10 years old, I was a little surprised that they still worked but they seem to be fine. Anyway if you ever need to touch up the paper it can be done and won't show.

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Very nice crisp work, Jonathan.

[Jonathan_219]

Attaching Bulkheads:

 

I've glued on the 4 bulkheads, started working on the pieces that attach to the sides of the bulkheads and started test fitting the sides and making the adjustments that I'll have to do for them to fit properly. Everything is going pretty much to plan and I'm really enjoying this part of the build as things start to come together.

 

As I've been test fitting the sides I have wanted to see how the last stern bulkhead will fit together with the sides so I've started working on it and as I do more test fittings I'll decide if I want to glue it in place before the sides. The instructions put the sides on first and then the stern bulkhead but for some reason it seems like it's working better for me if the bulkhead is in place first so I'll see as everything comes together.

 

The rather large gap on the sides between the frame and side pieces is one of the things I'm correcting as I'm test fitting the sides and I've managed to pull it into place with some regluing and careful trimming. Hopefully it will all work into place.

 

The picture includes some test fitted parts as it really helps me to visualize everything a couple steps ahead plus it's nice to see how it's starting to look.

 

 

[Jonathan_219]

Sides Installation and planking:

 

After getting the 4 bulkheads in place I started working on the sides. There was a lot of small adjustments to be made to get the best fit I could and there's about a 1.5-2mm gap horizontally between the two side pieces in what seems like the correct positions for them to me but I've decided to go with that. I suspect that this is at least part of the reason why the provided 5mm strips weren't long enough to cover bow to stern without splicing, in several places it's just the tiniest bit short so the extra length and possibly a bit of extra width where I didn't get things tight could explain it. I did decided to order some longer 5mm strips from the same place I bought my ship hoping that they'd be close enough to match once stained and I ended up needed those for several planks if I didn't want to splice. Since the other planks would be continuous it seemed to me that just having a couple with splices would look out of place, it's also hard to keep the curves of the planking even with a break in the plank so I'm glad I ordered those longer planks.

 

Once I had the longer planks the planking itself was pretty straightforward. For some reason when I started I thought I'd just use pieces between the gunports but it was immediately obvious that the preferred solution for me was to run a single plank across the length of the gunports and then trim away. A lot of that has to do with keeping the consistency of the curve and just being smooth. Since I had all the extra planks that made the decision simple. 

 

Once the planking was done and the gunports trimmed out I gave the new planks their first coat of stain. I'm pretty sure it'll get at least one more and immediately after staining it I can see a little difference between the lower areas I stained earlier and the new areas. I'm hoping that will be fixed as the new coat dries and going over everything with another coat.

 

Lots of detailing in the deck and railings areas coming up and I really enjoy that part so looking forward to it.

 

 

[Jonathan_219]

Deck Sides, Lower Wales and breaking things:

 

I've almost finished the interior sides of the decks and pieces that go inside. Everything has been straightforward except I don't have a way to bend the 1x2mm strips to the curves on the final stern bulkhead yet. I've experimented with some things like soaking in hot water and just gluing and forcing and nothing has worked yet, I may try the soldering iron method next. The curves on this piece are significantly greater than the others and I'll just have to keep experimenting till I find something that works for me. 

 

Painted and installed the lower two wales on each side. I tried using black stain for the wale but it wasn't nearly dark enough, I felt the look required a solid black wale to contrast with the hull so I spray pained the wales. My original plan for the wale that has the change and angle was to cut close to a 45° angle matching the angles in the plans but when one angle is greater than 45 and one less then the width, or distance from edge to edge across the angle is different and therefore it doesn't match up width so it looked poor. I had to just use a straight piece and then cut the bottom off to match the bottom (and top) of the wale coming across. Wasn't exactly what I wanted but it worked. Other than that the first two wales were pretty simple, I did use my longer 5mm strips or the included strips would have been maybe 8-10mm short. I'm sure that's due to some poor fitting of the basic structure when constructing that part. 

 

Working on the details near the bow I broke the bow piece of the keel that is in front, it was just moving my hand and my forearm caught it and pop. At first I thought since it was a clean break it would be really simple to glue back in place but I had a really hard time with it but finally got it glued in place and it was difficult to tell that it had been broken. Next morning I started working in the same area and broke it again exactly the same way. This time I decided I wasn't going to try and glue it back in place till the other pieces in that area all get put in place, I felt that every time I broke it it would just get weaker and after the second time I didn't trust myself not to do it again. I had been so happy that I hadn't broken that piece and then did it twice in less than 24 hours. Oh well. 

 

The installation of the wales really makes the model pop. I'm really looking forward to starting to add some of the detailing that's coming up.

 

 

[xodar461]

hi Jonathan,

 

I've enjoyed following along with your building log.  A few suggestions from a been there, done that perspective...to get a good curve on the 1x2 mm wood strips, soak several strips of the appropriate length in water until they no longer float.  then stack them together and clamp to a pot of a diameter that is close to the curve you want and let dry thoroughly.  the wood can then be easily worked to the correct curve with minimal stress on the wood.  This worked well for me.  As for the bow, I snapped mine off early into the build.  I did not try to repair until it was time to complete the bow with the support pieces and platform.  this will give the repair added strength with the only weak area being the part that just out past the platform (which I almost broke).

 

jeff  (revenge build log by xodar461)

 

 

[ASAT]

Looking great Jonathan, very well executed and nice finish work!

[Jonathan_219]

Side Details and Decoration:

 

I've been working on one side, I haven't touched the other side yet and everything is going pretty much as planned. The paper patterns add an incredible touch of detail to the kit and look amazing. I am running low on 1x2mm walnut but that's my fault. I've added some in places where the instructions don't call for it and if I have two pieces that don't fit together as well as I'd like then I just slap some 1x2 in there to cover the fault. I still have some more work to do on the first side but thought I'd post progress. I've ordered some more 1x2 and hopefully it will be close to a match for my existing pieces.

 

Xodar, I'll give the soaking another try before I try and bend those last couple of pieces, so far I haven't had much luck but noticed you said soak till they sink and I may not have been soaking them long enough. I've been getting some significant splintering when I (slowly) work the pieces into the desired curve, I'll make sure I let them soak till they sink before trying again. Reading your experience with breaking the bow piece was my inspiration for trying to be careful and I made it for a little while. I'm just too clumsy to make it last.