Cutty Sark by Nenad

[NenadM]

Thanks Piet.

 

1mm ... who cares ... just a half of your Shooner length  

[cog]

I would go for the heavier mast when I see these images ... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p2JHmAVCllI/T8N-bxHwYyI/AAAAAAAABBg/jOjCVx31Lnk/s1600/Cutty+Sark.jpg 

 

http://www.visitgreenwich.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/VG005.jpg

 

P.s. have you tried it with all three masts mounted (same size of course)?

Edited August 24, 2016 by cog

[NenadM]

Hello Carl

 

For now, to me was more important in this stage of build, to determine places for masts and their appr. diameter, to make condition for moving forward with main deck issues. Definitive decision will folow when masts come on line. I thought it is easier with less chance for damage to drill now 7mm holes, and to eventualy enlarge them for 1-2 mm later. Anyway, experience in filling fore and aft deck with sensitive parts learned me first to make them all, and to glue them when all is done. So, just before glueing is right time for another testing of mast dia, because it is possible that full main deck gives different feeling and look of masts dia 9mm maybe even 10mm. Particulary when four life boats land to roofs of cabins

 

Thank you for your interest

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

In preparation for Sail Lockers and for Stairs to aft deck

 

 

Notes are on Serbian, for me not to forget pair of eyes

 

Lenght is different drawn in C-plans

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

I started making Sail Lockers, and I was very happy because I find a way how to make them from veneer, and (I thought) first phase is done

 

 

And ...

 

Devil again mixed his fingers

 

When I placed lockers on their possition, I realized that my wrong measuring and loss experience hit me in plexus again

 

Obviously, my aft deck is placed higher above main deck than it has to be, and width of deck is also a bit larger than on C-plans

 

 

So ... nice test, nothing more

 

I had to recalculate lockers dimension and to enlarge them a bit, with idea to try to keep their look and to visualy hide mistake as much it is possible

 

Hmm

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

I have to say something

 

Rest in peace, dear MSW friend George (GLakie). I"ll miss you and your comments a lot

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13935-rip-george-lakie-glakie/#entry431485

 

 

Sad, very sad

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

Yes, Nenad, George would have kept you on the straight and narrow ...

[keelhauled]

Nenad,

always looking good.  Your sail lockers are actually chicken coupes.  The chickens keep piggie company, if he ever comes around again.

 

Sorry to hear about George.  He was indeed a great supporter to all of us. He will be missed.

 

Take care,

Marc

[NenadM]

... The chickens keep piggie company, if he ever comes around again....

 

Marc, Bob`s runaway piggy was captured and in safe place under fore deck long time ago, until Bob come back and ask for it, when he need it

 

 

 

 

Chicken will be boring without piggy on deck ...

 

 

But ... chicken can be used for a specific way of weathering the deck, as SawdustDave discovered

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Nenad

[keelhauled]

awesome to see piggy at home!

[NenadM]

Marc, this is temporary home for piggy, until Bob ask it back . Good value for trade ....

 

New attempt

 

Old ones ar at backward

 

 

On place under aft deck

 

Better

 

 

And now entertainment ... Front panel with the opening, which has to be thick less than 1mm

 

No idea how ... I tried something with veneer ... Did not work, too fragile

 

So, some tests applied with 1x1 mm square moulding

 

 

 

Yes, this is a way. Strong enough to be sanded

Edited August 26, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Sail Lockers - done

 

First frames from 1x1 mm strip

 

 

Then bars from 0,5 mm thinn veneer

 

 

Painted

 

 

 

And on place

 

 

Next - stairs

[keelhauled]

Very nice Nenad !  You and I seem to build two of everything.  Actually, you tend to build more than two of everything.  But yours gets better every time!

 

How are you enjoying your new office?

 

Take care,

Marc

[NenadM]

Stairs - attempt No 1

 

 

Min double, Marc

 

I have non enough experience, and just I have to feel material how react in this small scale. And there are mistakes, of course

Edited August 28, 2016 by Nenad

[popeye the sailor]

you've been busy since I last looked in     ....some really great progress here!   fore and main masts are almost identical......main is a bit taller.  mizzen will be a size smaller.    each step will be smaller.......but I'm sure you know that     good fix at the aft deck.....and sizing of the chicken coops.   I'm working on a set of stairs that are the largest I've ever done.........a couple of tests,  and I'm sure you'll arrive at what your thinking of  

 

super job Nenad!

[NenadM]

Thank you for your nice comment, Denis. As you said, I am looking for something ... A way to divide and spread mistake, with idea to mask it as much as it can be done

 

So, stairs ... have to look and to be more fragile. This time I used doubled veneer

 

 

Ok, so good so far. Let them be colored

 

 

Nice

 

So, let we see them on place

 

 

Yes, yes, yes

 

And to see how it looks with chicken coops ...

 

No,no,no

 

 

Obviously I made coops for GMO turkeys, a big ones

 

....

 

Hmm

 

It seems that I will use first coops I have made

Edited August 30, 2016 by Nenad

[keelhauled]

beautiful ladders!  lot's of progress!  very exciting!

[Piet]

Awesome work Nemad. Lockers and ladders look great.

 

Cheers,

[Omega1234]

Hi Nenad

 

I agree with Keelhauled (above). Nice work on the ladders and chicken coops.

 

I like how all your hard work is paying off nicely.

 

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[keelhauled]

Nenad,

 

Are you going to build the accommodation ladder that is used on the side of the hull to get down to the ships boats when they are in the water?  

 

 

 

If I remember correctly you are rigging sails.  Do you know where they stowed the accommodation ladder while underway? Was it on the boat skids, below in the hold...?  I wondered if you had come across a reference to it.

 

thanks

Marc

[NenadM]

beautiful ladders!  lot's of progress!  very exciting!

 

Thanks Marc. I am satisfied with ladders (almost) but not with lockers

 

 

Awesome work Nemad. Lockers and ladders look great.

 

Cheers,

 

Thanks Piet. My attempt to "distribute" mistake didn`t pass well. Height of aft deck is too big to keep proportions at all. So, something in the complete look just has to be sacrificed. My thoughts go in direction to keep horizontal proportion in mutual distances between ladders coops and mast, and obviously, there will be more white space above coops/lockers comparing to photos of Her aft deck ( e.g. famous pictures with Her Majesty on board). But, what to do ? It just must be done on this way.

 

 

Hi Nenad

 

I agree with Keelhauled (above). Nice work on the ladders and chicken coops.

 

I like how all your hard work is paying off nicely.

 

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

 

Thanks Patrick for nice words

 

I saw on some CS kit models more than over sized particular details (cabins, ladders, etc etc), but I do not like this, and I will continue to try to make in scale and keep proportions as much as I can do close to actual

 

 

Nenad,

 

Are you going to build the accommodation ladder that is used on the side of the hull to get down to the ships boats when they are in the water?  

 

accomodation ladder port.jpg

 

 

If I remember correctly you are rigging sails.  Do you know where they stowed the accommodation ladder while underway? Was it on the boat skids, below in the hold...?  I wondered if you had come across a reference to it.

 

thanks

Marc

 

That is the question Marc !

 

Accommodation ladder is very very nice detail for model, and I was seriously considering this detail. Unfortunately, you once have to chose - sails or Accommodation ladder. I chose sails. Idea to put them somewhere still stands in my head. But - where ?

 

I ask myself often - where it stands during sailing? I agree with Jim Lad and Denis. It is very little possible that it stands ON deck beside bulwarks or deck houses. Considering there is place for spare wood for masts or yards ( C-plans) and many other stuff, and sailors had to have clear passing from side to side of deck and whole sheep. Also I do not think that this structure was located under deck during sailing. Look at it`s dimensions and proportions, and to me it not seems as LEGO - it looks as, obviously, a solid, one part issue. It could occupied significant amount of  space under deck which is more necessary for cargo. Also, davits can not reach this space, and I think it can be complicated to use yards as davits to eventually pull out Accommodation ladder from cargo space

 

So, where ? I think that on the roof between boats is just right place for usual use of boats (or) in harbor.

 

According to Wiki - CS was at dry dock from 1954. 60 long years, and it is possible that personnel who took care of Her faced with problems as "damn, what to do with this ? We always sleeping stumble by this unnecessary thing!" and in one moment in this 60 year period somebody just decided to remove it. 

 

Considering to RMG, C-plans were drawn in 1950`s by Campbell & Sons from reproductions and people’s recollections of the now lost original drawings, which mean BEFORE or near a time She was stranded. And  Accommodation ladder appears on plans, with remark that front anchor davits were also used for Accommodation ladder, which indicates that place for it may be also on a roof of fore house ?

 

But, no mention where it stands during sailing

 

 

 

Interesting is that in Conservation plans made before fire (2004), there is not any single note about Accommodation ladder. I just can not imagine that reconstruction team forgot to consider this element, and believe that probably during reconstruction period after fire, reconstruction stuff and personnel also though on mentioned way (" what to do with this ? Better nothing. Ignore")

 

Of course, there is always presented question, same with all old and long-living buildings and structures - In which period to return to make replica ?

 

That are just my thoughts 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Nenad

[keelhauled]

Thanks Nenad,

I appreciate your thoughts.  I've been thinking this over for some long period of time.  It appears you have as well.  So far, I think it makes sense to put it between the boats on the skids on the aft deck house.

Marc

[popeye the sailor]

I have the Sergal Thermopylae.   another fellow built the same kit.......or is still in the process of building it {I haven't heard or seen any progress since}

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4738-thermopylae-by-tomasg-timotej-tristan-sergal-scale-1124/

 

I haven't looked at the plans for a while now {i'm trying to be a good boy},   but I believe that he built the accommodation ladder for his model.   one thing I would take into consideration........if your going to put sails on your model,  I wouldn't include it.   I have a peculiar feeling that it was left at the docks.  I think something like this would be the property of the dock owner,  and was only affixed to the ship at boarding time.   the only ladders I feel you would see on the ship,  would be escape ladders.......and they would would be made of rope.   I think this is more logical........I hope someone with more knowledge,  would add to this.

[NenadM]

It sounds logical, Denis. Or not. Everything is possible. Maybe somebody knows

 

So, back to coops ...

 

Final solution: I decided to use old ones, and to make new fronts for them. This time, considering that front panel dimensions are only 21x6 mm, all was made from 0,5 mm thick strips of thined veneer, some putty, and with additional shrinking depth of panels.

 

Also, there is no room for two rigging eyes, so I decided to put only one with outside dia 1mm. I can not make it smaller, and think there is no point at this scale. Still I think that rigging of coops will be nice detail, even with only one eye

 

 

My earlier mistake is "divided" visualy

 

 

Really, there will be a whole construction with three boats near here, mast with yard, and I don't believe anybody will see what was going on there

 

Except my MSW friends

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Nenad

[popeye the sailor]

they look excellent Nenad.........very well done!

[cog]

You are pulling me legg ... that small magnificent, Nenad .......

[NenadM]

they look excellent Nenad.........very well done!

Thx Denis. Next - Closets and ladders to front deck

[NenadM]

You are pulling me legg ... that small magnificent, Nenad .......

Thanks dear friend. This it what MSW is for. Learning and skill curve grows during time. And then, when you during time start collecting likes and friends-folowers who like your work, real masters between them which positive thoughts about your work mean a lot to you, and you start thinking: "ok, I am not so bad", then you ... accidently ... find works and photos from e.g. world shampionship, or have FB friends who wins value rewards on World or EU comletitions, or just dare to follow works of kings of MSW, and realise you still have to travel far. But, good point is, you always ask yourself: can I make something like that? Even simillar?

 

And next turn of learning curve starts

 

As I follow your works, I noticed mentioned riseing of skills

Edited September 2, 2016 by Nenad

[jud]

The ships I rode had their accommodation ladder platform hinged to the ship on it's inboard side with chains and slings in place to hold it level when deployed. The ladder itself was hinged to the upper platform and the lower platform was hinged to the ladder so all could be straightened out and turned up to lie against the rail as a unit. There were fittings and clamps in place to secure it all to the rail. Those ladders were used to board or leave the boats when the accommodation ladders were deployed. They were rigged with dedicated slings both top and bottom and could be deployed, recovered and securely stowed quickly. My guess is that the Cutty Sark had accommodation ladders on each side and unlike the ladder in the photo, which looks like an afterthought to me, probably had strong gates in the Bulwarks serving the ladders. As demand for passenger provisions declined with her age, the ladders may have been removed to avoid the maintenance and frequent need to rebuild them. The idea of a large heavy accommodation ladder with its upper and lower platforms being stowed with the boats, is not logical. Merchant ships were a bit conservative with the number of crewmen, they had much more needful things to do than man handle and rig the necessary tackle to move such ladders back and forth.

jud

[mtaylor]

Lovely work, Nenad and some great research also going on.   Those coops look perfect.