Cutty Sark by Nenad

[keelhauled]

Nenad,

really nice work!   I think that you note it in your reply about the accommodation ladder.  not only is the ladder mentioned with the detail of the davit in the elevation plan, but in the deck plan just below the elevation plan with the davits the ladder is shown attached on the starboard side and then the outline of the ladder is shown on the starboard drawing just belwo the deck plans on the same sheet (general arrangement).

Marc

[keelhauled]

Hi Nenad, 

I was just looking at the original specifications for the Cutty.  The original specifications for the cutty have listed under "No.68 Carpenter’s and Boatswain’s Stores". "1 Teak accommodation ladder with Crane complete."  So it looks like the ladder was always on the ship.  I know it was on the starboard side before the restoration.  No info on the anchor davits.  But it also didn't have specific details about the anchors.

Marc

[keelhauled]

Nenad,

what scale are your working in?

Thanks

Marc

[NenadM]

... My guess is that the Cutty Sark had accommodation ladders on each side and unlike the ladder in the photo, which looks like an afterthought to me, probably had strong gates in the Bulwarks serving the ladders. As demand for passenger provisions declined with her age, the ladders may have been removed to avoid the maintenance and frequent need to rebuild them. The idea of a large heavy accommodation ladder with its upper and lower platforms being stowed with the boats, is not logical. Merchant ships were a bit conservative with the number of crewmen, they had much more needful things to do than man handle and rig the necessary tackle to move such ladders back and forth.

jud

In Jock`s Willis specification, it can be found many "ladders", only one "accommodation ladders" mentioned, but on both sides

 

Just for soap to be thicker ...

 

Edit: I am wrong: Maybe. On C-plans, there is one for both sides

 

 

Lovely work, Nenad and some great research also going on. Those coops look perfect.

Thank you Mark. Others are researching, I am only thinking about

 

Nenad,

really nice work! I think that you note it in your reply about the accommodation ladder. not only is the ladder mentioned with the detail of the davit in the elevation plan, but in the deck plan just below the elevation plan with the davits the ladder is shown attached on the starboard side and then the outline of the ladder is shown on the starboard drawing just belwo the deck plans on the same sheet (general arrangement).

Marc

Another spice for soap

 

On C-plans, under ladders there are small words

 

 

Keep attention that Mr.Campbell use word "ladder" (singular) , "not ladders" (plural)

 

And particulary note words "to suit either side" !!!

 

So, it seems - one and only, at least in time when drawings were set

 

 

Hi Nenad,

I was just looking at the original specifications for the Cutty. The original specifications for the cutty have listed under "No.68 Carpenter’s and Boatswain’s Stores". "1 Teak accommodation ladder with Crane complete." So it looks like the ladder was always on the ship. I know it was on the starboard side before the restoration. No info on the anchor davits. But it also didn't have specific details about the anchors.

Marc

Nenad,

what scale are your working in?

Thanks

Marc

I can only hipothesize. Marc

 

In original plans I started with, ("TEHNODIDAKTA" from Pula, Croatia) there is no any sign about scale

 

When I found C-plans in *.pdf, I enlarged it digitally to fit as much as possible to my original plans, to keep proportions. But, then I discovered many deviations and discrepancies when I was looking for reference points (e.g. distance axes of masts) which leads me to conclusion that TEHNODIDAKTA plans are not correct. Keep this in mind for a moment ...

 

TEHNODIDAKTA did not sell plans and kits more that 20-25 years, and now it is in another country (Croatia), and it is mission impossible even to try to find anybody who worked there on time when plans are drawn ( 1970 year). Couple of years ago, in Serbia appears small family company who sell plans and kits, among which is "Cutty Sark" with TEHNODIDAKTA plans, and they declare they sell revised TEHNODIDAKTA plans, I do not know how. But they declared unusual scale 1:100. I do not believe that they change main TEHNODIDAKTA proportions (considering to some photos from their web site)

 

So, if TEHNODIDAKTA plans are correct and in scale (which i doubt very much) and they transfer scale correctly, my CS can be in scale 1:100, which is very close, or very far to usual 1:96 scale ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes ). Depends from point of view

 

Add to that, that I have my "line problem", which result in reparation of decks several times, which further result with change ing of some dimensions at biw, stern, bullwarks, decks..., and now it is just impossible to declare correct scale.

 

Mainly, I use my rescaled C-plans, and mainly everything fits in proportion pretty well

Edited September 4, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Next step - closets.

 

A bit trivially, but this two structures have a lot details, and it is worth to discuss them a little

 

Diving through my bunch of photos, I realized that closets changed their design during time couple of times. Also bar`s length and design of pump

 

Here are photos from WEB and Lou`s photos cropped to detail

 

 

I decided to follow present look

 

Issue No 2 - left and right are different with additional content

 

Left has a little pump at side

 

 

And right has eight bars for capstan at side

 

 

There are, normally, ornaments similar to ornaments on cabins at the doors and sides, just to test my patience

 

And now, the icing on the cake ...

 

Dimensions on my scale for WC cabins are: Height 21 mm width 9,6 mm, depth 11 mm

 

 

And I deadly want that pump and all eight bars !!! All wiith their brass caps

 

Translated to real life of modeler, it means that single bar has less than 1mm dia, and that pump is about 10x5mm

 

 

 

And a cherry on icing ...

 

My lost lines prevent me to cut directly on scale. First I have to make and fit card templates of closet profile to the rail height, and then to make drawings by them.

 

Now, in front of my PC I hope that left and right height of rails beneath fore deck are the same. I do not dare tonight to go down to shipyard ant to measure. Also I hope that I didn`t put some stanchions there, and that I stopped white panel`s line as it is shown on photos

 

Who said that I like challenge ?

 

I said

Edited September 4, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

Nenad,

 

I wouldn't mind how they looked, i.e. the heads, I just want to be able to use them ... when the pressure is mounting ... I like that pump on the side, don't have it at home ...

[keelhauled]

That pump on the side of the WC is salt water for various uses on deck.  There is also a fresh water pump in front of the fore hatch that is removable. usually you don't see it in place in old photos.

[Piet]

Great progress Nenad and fantastic research.  You'll get it right my friend, I have no doubt.

 

Cheers,

[NenadM]

Nenad,

 

I wouldn't mind how they looked, i.e. the heads, I just want to be able to use them ... when the pressure is mounting ... I like that pump on the side, don't have it at home ...

 

Preassure ... hmmm ... fortunately, pump is near whatever happened  ... 

 

 

That pump on the side of the WC is salt water for various uses on deck.  There is also a fresh water pump in front of the fore hatch that is removable. usually you don't see it in place in old photos.

 

I have seen small pump(s) on some photos, and I am considering possibility to put them ( they will look as something 2x2x4mm) - is there point to do this

 

 

Great progress Nenad and fantastic research.  You'll get it right my friend, I have no doubt.

 

Cheers,

 

Thanks Piet for nice words. Just collecting photos and detective ( Sherlock Holmes with magnifier) work. Digital, off course

 

 

And final preparation for WC - working drawing is done, and I am ready for first tests

 

[cog]

Looking at the sizes ... For testing ... That will be a tight fit 

[keelhauled]

nice drawings!  Wish I had your computer skills!  

 

I probably would have had hot head convert all of the drawings.  Isn't drawing ships about the same as architecture - of course ships are cooler since the move around    Don't forget the seats in the head.  otherwise your little people will fall through the hole!

[NenadM]

Looking at the sizes ... For testing ... That will be a tight fit 

 

Hey Carl ... I do not intend to test closets and their usability before or after making and mounting them !!!   

 

 

nice drawings!  Wish I had your computer skills!  

 

I probably would have had hot head convert all of the drawings.  Isn't drawing ships about the same as architecture - of course ships are cooler since the move around    Don't forget the seats in the head.  otherwise your little people will fall through the hole!

 

Seats will be there, which means that I have to make doors open. If I eventually forgot seats, and my little people fall through, that is what is salt water pump for, isn`t it ?   

 

Ok, let`s even try to be serious, even for a while ... sudden and unexpected pressure of work do not allow me to step down to workbench. Maybe tomorrow.

 

I hope

Edited September 7, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

Life gets in the way ... as usual ... we'll be waiting, Nenad. at leat you've got a new office!!

[NenadM]

it serves you right, Nenad!

 

When you blow up cholesterol, graze grass and eat carrot !!!

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

After couple of very very loaded days, tonight was a time to meet my fears ...

As I expected height of rails at fore-deck points is different !!! It means that closets also will have different height!!! Difference is 2mm, so at right, 22 mm, and at the left, 20mm. :'( Considering that white roofs have to be at the same height toward main rail and to fore deck, it also means that door panels will be looking different, one narrower than another

So, visualy "divideing" and visualy masking mistakes task - again

First I run simple test making closets from cards, with 10mm width as on C-pland, just to see their volume how it looks at measured height



Not good. Too narrow

So, solution is to "wide them, and I make another test with 12 mm width in base



2mm more is not big deal having in mind that there is no other content beside closets toward stern.

Also I think that this 12 mm at front (door panels) will allow me to distribute bad look adding open doors to closets and inner content ...

Of course, there will be a famous hole we discus above



I think that fine details as ornaments on side walls of closet and on the doors, open doors with hole and ... and pump and the bars will cover my mistake at all

Edited September 14, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

Step forward to WC cabins (please, do not understand in wrong way!)

 

First - making, volume setting and position fitting

 

 

Second - decoration and door. More fine sanding will be applied before painting

 

 

Door has to be remade, a bit larger

 

Inside look

 

 

Painting will follow when I make second cabin

 

Roof will coome at the end when I make another WC. Maybe horizontal nivelation to fore deck will be neccessary when second will be done

Edited September 13, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

Well you are nearly ready for your first drop shipment ... looking good, Nenad. Quite tiny, considering the fag next to it

[mtaylor]

Incredible work, Nenad.   Looking very usable but only if one is really tiny.

[jud]

Nice looking WC Closet, Nenad. Just keep the door shut so it will look realistic, need some leg room so the door could be closed during occupation if you intend to display with the door open. If so, trim the seat boards back to the rear of the existing seat hole, then make another hole.

jud

Edited September 13, 2016 by jud

[Piet]

Very nice miniature work Nenad.

 

Cheers,

[NenadM]

@Mark, maybe after my diet I could be able to use it

@Jud, I am just playing, and have to think about for a while. Idea came from Sudomek's Ariel. Fact is that his Ariel is made almost at doubled scale with nice metal details inside cabin. I am not sure for now, will doors be opened. Having in mind that right in front of door will be ladders, and that ladders have nice and fine protective net on side, it seems pretty crowded on a very narrow space there for opening door enough to see inside. Position of hole was correct at first moment (leg room) but I had to shorten cabine a while after making to fit it on place and to line it's front to right point on fore deck, and room for legs dissapeared.

Same thing with nice little pink piggy I moved in pen near, also playing with idea, which is now visible only when you put your nose near at 10 cm distance, and now, it will be visually almost covered with cabin and ladder. You can see Mrs. Piggy on picture in a previous post


Long ago I have seen half opened model of U-boat with cabins and furniture (Roland Vlahovic CDO), even with picture on wall and Remembering this, I had idea to put miniature nail with paper on wall inside WC cabin ... but ... somewhere you just have to set frontire if there is no point

 

@ Piet, thanks for nice words. Your work is inspiration to try things which at first look seems impossible to me

Edited September 28, 2016 by Nenad

[Omega1234]

I like it!

 

Nicely done, Nenad.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[NenadM]

I like it!

 

Nicely done, Nenad.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

 

 

Thanks my friend. It is really nothing compare to your miniature works

[Mirabell61]

Hi Nenad,

 

always busy as usual,...... nice progress with the decks fitting out  

do`nt forget a paperroll hanger inside the WC, and a water bucket  ready outside for flushing

 

Nils

Edited September 14, 2016 by Mirabell61

[NenadM]

Hi Nenad,

 

always busy as usual,...... nice progress with the decks fitting out  

do`nt forget a paperroll hanger inside the WC, and a water bucket  ready outside for flushing

 

Nils

 

Thank you, Nils. 

 

Your post interested me to make a quick research - did paperrools exist in XIX century.

 

Quote for Wikipedia: " Modern commercial toilet paper originated in the 19th century, with a patent for roll-based dispensers being made in 1883"

 

Very interesting article to read !!! we usually do not think about history of everyday trivially stuff

 

Last time when I was thinking about was when, as youth, I have read book "The Life of Gargantua and of Pantagruel" written in XVI century by François Rabelais,l which I have in my library in edition "world classics". Tractate (treatrise) about ...

 

So, it means that probably, paperrols  appear eventualy on CS in late XIX century or in XX century. Who knows, I do not believe that such a fact is written anywhere, because of it`s minor meaning

Edited September 14, 2016 by Nenad

[cog]

More important ... would they have space to stock paperrolls ...!?

[NenadM]

More important ... would they have space to stock paperrolls ...!?

Hmm 70-80 days lasting journey with no more than 30 members of crew, let us say, 20-30 paper pieces per man ... Not a significant volume. I think that paperrolls, when appear at free market at the end of XIX century were expensive, and it is more possible that they were using regular paper. Cheaper, need less space, and probably can be find in every harbour.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Nenad

[NenadM]

It seems I'm on right way. First cabin (with pump at side) done without pump for now. It was made again from zero

 

 

On position

 

[popeye the sailor]

don'tcha just hate a task that involves paperwork at the end?      I keep thinking that the heads should be a bit taller though..but you've done a great job there    

[NenadM]

Denis, I do not understand what you mean by "heads" . If you think about height of cabins, you are wrong. Toward photos, cabin is a bit higher it has to be

 

Thank you for nice comment.

 

Paper at start, paper at end.