HBMS Amphion 1798 by Matrim - 32 Gun 18pdr Frigate

[mtaylor]

We're a patient lot, Joss.   We have to be to let glue dry, etc.  

[Matrim]

That's lucky though it may be more amusing to bet on how long the log lasts before I throw all my toys out of the pram and start again erm again..

[Matrim]

I've spent the last portion of the week musing on scale. My last attempt was at 1:60 i(if I remember correctly) but I would prefer to work at a larger scale as it makes things less fiddly. That naturally introduces space considerations though these are lessened just because it is a 32 Gun ship so is slightly smaller than other same period frigates.

 

The ships body lengths could be taken off the plans but unless built as hull only are not the main factor and it was only after several MSW members helped me to try and translate a sail plan (leading to Mark P linking a contemporary mast dimension plan for a 32) that I could get slightly more accurate figures.

 

The key two needed were the bowsprit and jiboom and driver. The sail plan listed the point the spirit sail 'started' and that allowed me to approximately place the jiboom and the plan provided the correct angle.

 

Give or take a cm or two this should give me a relatively accurate length. Width was dependant on the main yard width with some additional allowance for the stunsail booms and then reduced by 10% (I am having the yards angled to reduce space and already tested this on my Bounty allowing me to measure the space 'saved') . Height was less important so though I had the correct mast sizes calculating the correct height was left and I instead extrapolated the main mast height from my Diana model (38) above the deck and then reduced it by 94% which appears the average size reduction from a 38 to a 32. Height will also be impacted by how it will be displayed and as that has not been decided yet it becomes still less important.

 

I then through up a horrifically badly drawn sketch to mark these down at the correct scale

 

 

 

The measurements against the ship are in millimetres

 

It is certainly going to be 'big'. It is always useful to find something to compare the model end size to and I think I succeeded in that the dresser this computer is sitting on is almost the same size. The model will be 8-9 cm longer and the same wider so the width and length are very close (admittedly most of the length and width will be rigging and yards). Height wise it will end up being around half the height again.

 

 

Pluses are that it will fit through doors with slight care - a 38 at 1:48 would fit through my doors with around a cm spare so with 'extreme' care. It will also therefore sit on a wider dresser than the one shown (or a table). I suspect my wife wont let it in the house so it will potentially decorate my work room when done but as I stated earlier ship modelling is more the journey than the result.

 

If I put it in a glass case then that will also be huge.

 

Next I have to think more on materials. At least for the frame at this point.

[mtaylor]

Not a big help you can reduce the width by angling the yards a bit.   Or just use stub masts as quite a few have done.

[Matrim]

Well I waited for my wood delivery to arrive and arrive it did. Just as we hit lockdown and I had to turn my modelling workspace into a home office (which it still is and will be for two-three months). This has caused a fairly natural hiatus in any worthwhile progress. A couple of weeks back I did take down my youngest sons wardrobe and as I did so I moved to the garage some of the nicer bits of wood and especially paid attention to the solid wood door and some of the support pieces. By flipping it on its back and drilling the support pieces underneath I just so happened to make a nice building board saving a few bob.

Here is it temporarily shifting my monitor/keyboard out of the way

 

 

It is sitting on the only space space my workshop currently has so on top of the router table..

 

Next steps are to mark the correct measurements (max breadth and keel lengths so I can make sure the 6 A4 sheets that make out the base plan are correctly placed)  and then add the plans. All of which I can do so over the remainder of the 'forced work from home'.

[Matrim]

Not quite at the building stage yet (my new work desk apparently arrives 15th October at which point I can switch my home office from my workroom back to the house and start building).

 

I do have some slight progress. Thanks to the generosity of fellow MSW member Mark P - who kindly offered to use his larger printer to print out a lovely full size copy of my base board plan (to avoid having to try and do so on my A4 printer with resultant possible join errors) I now have a lovely base plan on the building board ready for work to begin.

 

 

lovely. I can't wait

 

 

[MEDDO]

This is exciting!

[Matrim]

Time for a ramble and then an update..Years ago Henry Ford commented on failure

 

Quote

Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently

 

which is a wonderful way to approach things I think and is certainly something I use a lot in modelling. The relevance here is that I started on my keel pieces and used the approach I detailed (in considerable detail) around page 5 of this log ( urk 5 years ago).

 

Anyway I cut some joints and wasn't happy with them. Two things in particular irked me and these are admittedly both correctable. Firstly using the scroll saw to cut the shoulder tended to produce a slightly angled cut that became more obvious once the joint was made (this can be expected as the Scroll saw will cut faster as it initially contacts but the later cuts meet more resistance and the blades are thin enough that they can bend). The solution here is either a thicker blade or a slower cut with a faster saw speed. The other was that post table saw cut (close.) to the diagonal line the joint still needed lots of hand work and it proved surprisingly easy to over work it and go to deep etc. Either way I was not pleased.

 

After considering the problem I decided to try two different approaches. For the initial shoulder cut the table saw would be an adequate replacement. It can cut to a specific depth, utterly straight thus eliminating any bend. For the diagonal though I had to think of other options and in the end moved to use one of my favourite power tools - my Sherline mill specifically with an end mill. I had used this in the previous build for the complex joint at the end but that was at right angles and this most certainly was not. The main issue was that even if I managed to replicate the exact angle of the cut over every cut even a slight over cut would result in different angles and bad joints.

 

My way of compensating was as follows (and I may still change this as I am (frankly) still tempted to cut all the joints with the same angle).

 

Anyway. I used one of the better previous pieces as a base line and secured that in a vice. I then put the next piece into the joint but the wrong way round. This way the bits to be removed would stick up and I could then mill them out. The advantages here are that as long as each joint matches if I over cut one then the next will automatically be undercut and vice versa and 'should' be a good join. At least to acceptable tolerances.

 

Since this makes little sense lets cut to lots of pictures. Please note that the mill shots are of the initial pieces cut against a set angle, after these are cut following joints are made with the joint it will be used with.

 

Here is the initial method of securing the keep piece and what the mill is cutting against. The key point is not to drop lower than the table saw cut (which can be clearly seen to the left). The mill has several methods of ensuring accuracy across multiple dimensions so its a matter of how its approached as opposed to a specific way of doing so.

 

 

Next up we have shot of the joint once it is complete. 

 

 

since you still have to be careful near the shoulder itself it may still require some very minor manual touching up.

 

Here is a photo of the simple keel pieces 'complete'. You will notice piece 1 is considerably oversized. This is so that once gluing is complete I can cut that to the exact keel length and thus avoid any incremental sizing issues that might have arisen in either direction.

 

 

Another of the pieces on their sides with my simplistic joint numbering system

 

 

As a rough sizing attempt I laid it on the full size plan

 

 

Finally some detail of the joints

 

 

 

Next up I have to work on the complex joint at keel piece 6 but I am expecting to redo this for two reasons. The first is I don't think I cut enough blanks (I have 4 for the box joint and they are oversized so in case of disaster can shorten and restart) but more importantly I think I need more fat on these pieces for thicknessing to the correct size post gluing. This 'may' not be necessary but for the moment I am treating as a blind test run so see what other potential improvements/technique adjustments can be planned. I also want to re-look at that joint in turbocad. I did design it with the main joint at an angle but in the original version I kept it at right angles to simplify it. I'm not currently sure which approach to take.

 

Anyway thanks for reading!

 

[Mark P]

Good Evening Matrim;

 

That's looking like a good start; only another ten zillion scarph joints to go! 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[druxey]

Congratulations on laying the keel!

 

Mark: we know that each scarph joint is good practice for the next one... and the next....

[Chuck]

Sawdust at last!!! Wonderful news and I will happily follow along.

[BANYAN]

Great to see the keel laying Joss; but I seem to have missed the ceremony   Great process that results in very clean well mating joints.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[druxey]

Yes, Pat - but I was too polite to ask why we weren't invited.

[mtaylor]

Nice work, Joss.  After pulling your hair out with all the testing and sorting things out, I hope the rest goes smoothly and your hair grows back.

[uss frolick]

Nice! I always liked this beautiful frigate and her glorious history! 

 

More Amphion, please ...

[Matrim]

I'd like to put up a post with some work on something that isn't the keel. But this won't be it. Perhaps I should rename the log to ' Scratch building the Amphion's Keel..a lot'

 

As I said in my last update I was considering another try as I was not quite happy with the process and how close to actual size the pieces were. What follows will move to heights of detail to challenge even the most interested reader. So if you've had enough of the Keel then I recommend you await a future post (though there is a little historical paragraph at the very bottom).

 

One of my favourite sayings concerning WW2 and design was that English craftmanship consisted of making a round peg fit a square hole. German craftmanship consisted in making 30 different shaped pegs fit 30 identically different shaped holes perfectly and American craftmanship consisted of making a square peg fit a square hole 300 times a minute. It was used somewhere to describe the issues the various combatant states had with their design processes and vehicles in particular. With regard to this build I would prefer it to move closer to the American method so refined my 'process' to remove as many issue sources as possible.

 

Step 1 - Cut list 10 pieces to eventually represent keel parts 1-5  9.6*9.6mm, 4 pieces to eventually represent piece 6  9.6mm * 50mm

 

- I like to cut extra as I always lose something to a mistake and this way you don't have to recut with the large risk of not getting the size the same - something you can do if you are running the same batch through the thickness sander at the same time.

 

Step 2 - thickness the 10 pieces to 9mm * 9mm and the 4 larger pieces to 9mm depth only. 

 

- At this point I check the edges of all cut pieces against a straight edge and mark them as A, B or C. A quality is the best B is useable and C is not. 

 

Step 3 - In the previous post I had 'also' cut extra and had two pieces left over of the larger width. I cut the angle for the joint into one and then used that as the base for the angles into the next. I then scribbled some green and red ink over these two pieces which would function as my bases. 

 

- this allows me to get an identical cut each time and whereas the previous method used 3 pieces of wood to get the cut piece high enough in the vice this just needed one thus increasing ease of use, stability, accuracy and reduced error possibility.

 

My two lovely blanks red and green

 

Step 4 - Using some of the scrap (2 pieces from Step 2 were found to be C class) I tried to cut the depth in the table saw and then used the pieces from Step 3 to cut the joints. If they did not match I re-adjusted the table saw blade height and repeated (cutting of the dodgy end) until I was happy.

 

- At this point you want the table saw height locked. Under no circumstances would you want to adjust the blade height or the distance to the cut guide. If you did then Step 4 would need to be replicated and you may not have enough wood and get that height wrong and the joints are cut wrong and you have to start again....

 

Step 5 - I used the table saw to cut the joint corner depth on one side of all the pieces (including the 50mm thick ones).

 

Step 6 - I then started with piece 1 and used the green blank to cut the joint on the mill. Once complete I wrote on the joint 1RG standing for piece 1 Right joint and Green blank

 

- I then took the next piece and cut it on the red blank, marked it 2LR for 2 Left Red after I had checked the fit was good. I then repeated this for one joint for all the 1-5 pieces.

 

- The reason only 1 side was done was that if a mistake was made and the joint did not fit then the other end can be cut down and restarted to match so it is a safety valve..

 

An action shot! of writing!

 

Step 7 - Not wanting to adjust the table saw setup I used the disc sander which also can keep cuts exactly at 90 degrees and shortened the next piece accordingly. I could then use the table saw to cut the opposing sides joint depth and then repeat the exercise for the opposing side joints.

 

Step 8 - I gummed a cut out section from my plans onto the piece. Now please remember this is the opposite side to the left joint table saw cut. 

 

Step 9 - Now it was time to start on the much more complex piece 6. For this I started by cutting the upper side of the piece with the table saw being very careful to not go near the rising section (the saw naturally cuts deeper lower so you can accidentally cut into wood that should not be touched.

 

Step 10 - I used a scalpel to cut out the paper that covered the joint and then used the mill as before to cut the majority of the joint out to a depth of 4.5mm (one reason for the 9mm size is to make this cut easier) As long as the vice is set up properly you can also do the parallel section of the joint on the line.

 

Step 11 - Mills are wonderful things and I now loosened my vice and moved it about so I could do the same cut to the rising angle and the 2 other angles on the floor of the joint. When adjusting the vice I would just move the mill out of the way so I did not adjust its height (and thus get into potential issues when resetting).

 

Step 12 - The piece came out of the mill vice I used the scroll saw to cut the upper line (not close to the line itself - around 2mm off)

 

Step 13 - The piece then went back in the mill with some flat scrap under it and the mill was lowered over 9mm so I could do the same to the upper edge.

 

Step 14 - It was removed from the mill for the last time and the table saw was used to cut off the end piece

 

Step 15 - The disc sander handled the forward diagonal edge.

 

Step 15 - the piece was now placed back in the now straightened vice so its left most joint can be cut using the red blank from step 3. What's nice about this approach is that you can move the mill sideways and fit the other side whilst it is still in the vice to test the fit if you are nervous about it....

 

Below you can see piece 6 pre tidy up. It looks messier than it actual is but that, I suppose, is the power of cameras these days.

 

Step 16 - the corners and places were angles change all needed work with chisels to correct.

 

So there we have it. I like this approach as the mill is a huge amount of fun to use and it helps guarantee those right angle and exact depth cuts and thus helps counter my own lack of craftsman skills.

 

Next up I will be looking at gluing them together (I have the pieces from the previous post to be my test guinea pigs) and then once that is done thicknessing the top/bottom to size before blueing. The sides might wait until after the bolts are done - I plan on using wood as opposed to metal this time and am undecided on the order to do this currently. If I do it prior to thicknessing then the thicknessing will flatten - which I like the thought of... 

 

Pieces almost ready to be glued the only piece that still needs cutting down is piece 1 which is still oversized so it can be cut to the correct key length once all pieces are glued and any incremental sizing errors in either direction make themselves known. (Pieces are not exactly over their drawing prints in case anyone was wondering)

   

 

 

 

Finally, she is indeed a lovely ship Frolick. It may interest any trivia followers out there that in the Aubrey Maturin book 'Treasons Harbour' O'Brian has some minor criticism of Hoste (I don't entirely disagree though I think my own opinion of him is more rooted in opportunity than O'Brian's and his has a ring of some of the complaints about Nelson in it). He then goes on to describe how a Lt Charles Fielding has escaped from French prison and hid all over Europe and had finally managed to get out on the Adriatic in a small boat which is then found by the Nymphe (one of his old ships). This is interesting because the actual officer was Donat Henchy O'Brien and the ship  that found him, and the one in which he used to be on the roster of, was none other than my Amphion. He covers it in detail in his memoirs 'My Adventures during the late war'.  Just another example of Mr O'Brians skill at continually re-purposing actual historical events to provide realism in his stories. You may find it curious why he did not attribute it accordingly and I think (guessing naturally) that Hoste was one of the minor sources for some of Aubrey's actions and as this book specifically mentions one of the re-purposed activities- when Hoste (then in the Bacchante) took Cattaro in 1813 - even involving a helpful Archbishop. This was detailed in an earlier Aubrey book ('The Ionian Mission'  -  here O'Brian even mentions Cattaro but as another location and shifts some of his combatant nationalities but not most of the events themselves)  but in the current one O'Brian has Aubrey going to his fictional town version and meeting up with his fictional Pope/archbishop so I personally think he didn't want to draw so much direct attention to the Hoste and the Amphion which was best known under his command. Tying the actual O'Brien to the espionage and a wife was probably a major factor as well.

 

Anyway thanks for reading for anyone that got this far.

 

 

[BANYAN]

Love the history, and your 'anecdote' of the WW2 construction comparisons   

 

You will have perhaps the best made model keel to show for your efforts   Love the wood BTW.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Matrim]

Thanks all,

 

I have just finished gluing parts 1 to 5 of the keel together with slightly coloured glue and then thicknessed the top and bottom to the correct target size.

 

Keel joint shot with an extreme close up

 

 

That will do nicely..

 

Next up I am starting tomorrow on drilling the keel joint bolts. As ever I have changed my process for that slightly to hopefully reduce my chances of destroying all the work I have done so far..

[Mark P]

Good Evening Matrim;

 

I am glad to see that you are making progress; it all looks very good. I will pray that your fears are not realised!

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

Edited December 18, 2020 by Mark P

[dvm27]

Great start, Matrim. I used the Sherline mill for all my scarf joints. The mill vice is actually attached to the angle plate which makes it very easy when cutting the chocked joints. I am a self-taught machinist so the techniques I use may not be the most efficient but they work for me. One thing I noted when I first started using the mill was that some of my joints were slightly narrower on one side. When the piece you were milling  is being held solely within the top jaws of the vice it can skew a little when tightened. This problem was eliminated when I put a scrap piece of wood the same width into the bottom of the mill vice.

Edited December 20, 2020 by dvm27

[Matrim]

Thanks guys. It is nice how you learn more the capabilities of the tools you are using with experimentation. I also like the Sherline because I am totally in control and I dont feel at risk (I always feel at risk when using the table saw which is a much scarier tool)

[Matrim]

Meh. Just when you start working another lockdown appears to slow you up. I've admittedly not stopped as I had to redo the keel after a process mistake. The Mark III keel went fine though so this post is to cover the nails/sizing and false keel stages.

 

Once I had the joint on piece 6 done (and the process mistake was here. I had to remove the extra 'meat' so it was exact size top to bottom as otherwise when I attach to the rest of the keel it is too large). Anyway on the Mark III version I adjusted the plans so I cut it out at the correct height. This was then joined to the rest of the keel in the fashion described above and I then started on the bolts. I probably mentioned earlier that I went the bamboo path this time - after firstly this will not be visible and secondly it allows me to thickness post bolt addition. To simplify matters I generated a bolt plan in turbo cad and then copied and pasted until I had twenty or so on a sheet. I could then print this, cut off the template (which showed the rabbett so could be the correct way up)  and pasted it to the relevant joints (making very certain that the rabbett was at the correct side).

 

As so

 

 

Now I did not need to bother with exact movements of the mill and could just drill through with a microsd board drill at the correct size (I went for 1mm which is actually far larger than the correct diameter of the scale bolts BUTTTTTT these bolts were clenched by hammering each end so would expand making them larger visually, this also allowed a thicker bamboo treenail so more lateral strength in the joints. Also (again) no one will see there.)

 

 

The drill was not quite large enough to make it through so I then switched to a pin drill to finish the last 2-3mm - at that point the rest of the hole provided a decent guide so it would be hard for the bit to wander.

 

 

Not bad. 

 

Next up I wanted the keel on BEFORE I thicknessed the sides to length OR the actual length for that matter. Thicknessers can cause a 'bump' at each end of a piece of wood worked on (if unlucky and your attention wanders) so if this happened it would be later removed when thicknessed to length. The other advantage is that the false keel and keel get side thicknessed simultaneously so wont end up with even marginal differences. 

 

This is also where cutting the false keel to the same start width as the actual helps as you don't have to worry about overlap. 

 

Here is me attempting to ensure false keel pieces do not have their joints at the keels joints

 

 

and here is a standard clamp shot. I did two false keel pieces a day (one before work and one after) as the risk of them sliding due to the blackened glue is high and I have made mistakes in the past trying to do all such types of work at the same time.

 

 

After the keel was on I could thickness to the sides. Here I was very careful to move the thicknesser two notches then thickness then move two notches and to repeat on the other side mainly so my piece 6 boxing joint would not be heavily out of place.

 

After this I used the disc sander to thickness the front 'ledge' to the correct size before using a very long ruler (two metres?) to get the rear end of the keel to the correct size. To get the angle I went back to the plans which had this marked already (see the left size of piece one)

 

I could then cut this out (marking the correct side with the angle first so I didn't accidentally use the sissored side..

 

 

The angle was done on the disc sander but I did use a scroll saw to remove some of the excess as sanding produces more dust than I like even with a decent extractor and mask on. It's not easy to see but you can see the line of the false keel running all the way through.

 

 

So happily the keel/false keel unit is done. I used cherry for the false keel (as opposed to the apple I am using elsewhere) for no particular reason (false keels in real life were a different wood to the main frame). Now I have this done and I am happy with it it should provide a stable foundation for the rest of the ship. If something goes wrong (which it will) with a later piece then I wont have to restart from scratch.

 

Here is an unexciting shot of the keel in place.

 

 

and finally here is a close up of the correct sized keel/false keel showing both the bolts and a false keel joint.

 

 

Next up I will probably start on the stem. Only because it is easier to fit without the next section of the keel in place. Thanks for reading this far and happy modelling!

 

[Matrim]

Good grief time flies... I'm still workshop less so looking with fondness at my on hold plans for making sawdust..

 

Anyway I just wanted to note, as it's relevant to the Amphion, that one of the most famous portraits of Sir William Hoste is now thought not to be him but a Captain John Walter Roberts instead. After finding this out it does make sense as there is other portraits of Hosts as a midshipman and captain and both those portraits show recognisably the same person. This particular mis-represented portrait would sit in between the two and shows someone that does not match (so much) the other two.

 

This being the internet there are still hundred of hits of the wrong portrait being Hoste though especially as it was the best painted (and is also slapped on the front cover of Hoste's best biography 'Remember Nelson' by Tom Pocock.

For those interested the Greenwich text is as follows (copied in case link disappears but link is also at bottom so you can go to the original)

 

Quote

Captain John Walter Roberts, 1792-1845

This portrait was previously thought to be of Sir William Hoste. Another version of this portrait in a family collection, however, is identified as being a portrait of John Walter Roberts (1792–1845). As the sitter does not look like known representations of Hoste, of which there are very few, it seems very probable that this is a portrait of Roberts. He is wearing full dress uniform of the 1812–25 pattern and could either be a commander, to which he was promoted in 1814, or a captain, 1823. The attribution to Samuel Lane is based upon a portrait of Hoste being exhibited at the Royal Academy in 1817, but because this is not now thought to be Hoste this is now questionable.

Roberts entered the Navy in 1804 as a volunteer in the ‘Medusa’ commanded by his uncle Sir John Gore, under whom he escorted Lord Cornwallis as Governor-General to India, covering the return journey of 13,831 miles in a remarkable 82 days. In 1806 as a midshipman in the ‘Revenge’ he served off Brest and L’Orient and for nine months at the blockade of Rochefort where he witnessed on 25 September the capture of four French frigates by a squadron under Sir Samuel Hood.

 

rmg Roberts painting

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Matrim

[Matrim]

Woo hoo building again. Just about coping with shifting the office into the house so can build again. Returned to the stem with some approach adjustments. What I'm doing now is to try to use extra lines outside the object to support the cutting of the joints. If I make the joint parallel to the cut box then I don't have to concern myself with more than one angle and it makes my mill very useful as that gives me a solid angle to ensure right angles and thus the correct angle. The other change is that I am now using the scroll saw for the curved lines but attempting to cut at the line. It's proving easier than I thought which again keeps things 'to shape'

 

So starting with my cut plan for the middle stem

 

I cut a blank of wood with the table saw and thickness it to size ensuring I have 2 right angled edges. I then align the bottom and right (or top left etc) to the good edges and then use a set square to make sure the eventual target cut line is correct.

 

I then trim of excess wood to the cut line as I dont want the mill to dig in/overwork or cut our chunks

 

Since the middle step has 2 joints I used the straight bottom (already) for joint 1 (which can be seen to the left). I then cut along the blue line to get a second straight edge allowing me to mill the second joint. In this case using the lower stem to roughly validate the joint.

 

Finally the sides are cut with the scroll saw.

 

 

Great. Now I am going to re-do the lower stem as I'm not happy with the box joint (there's a larger gap than I'm happy with) but will re-use the same methodology that only started working well with the piece above.

Above is the new cut template. You will notice the right joint is following the parallel plan, the extended blue lines are because this piece needs two templates (the other reversed) as the under section needs milling and the blue lines allow me to validate that the two templates align.

 

After that I have to consider how to taper these as it looks like it has a taper fore and aft and up and down which looks a bit of a bugger to do..

 

 

[BANYAN]

Great to see you back Joss, must be great to be back at it.  Nice neat work on the stem timbers.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Matrim]

Thanks Pat.. 

 

I have to start looking at the rising wood next which will involve validating the plans (and getting some more wood supplies delivered). In the meantime I thought I would move to the rabbet. This I do admit, makes me nervous mainly because it reduces my ability to use power tools and when I start wielding tools be hand the chances of damaging something beyond repair rocket. I did try some experiments with a previous demo keel angling the keel piece and using a mill to cut the joint but that had various issues. I also considered, briefly, using the scrape technique again but that had failed me last time so in the end I went for the hand approach with several refinements to try and reduce the muck up potential.

 

I also considered doing this after the rising wood was done and attached but by adding that I would not be able to lay the keel flat so that introduced complications I wanted to avoid. If cut now I could at least keep it flat and would aim for 'most' of the cut to be done with it being easier to tidy and expand later if I had a decent start now.

 

First up I printed some more paper templates and added them to both sides before using the scalpel to remove the paper from where the rabbet would go. This was firstly to provide a reference for the cut and secondly I had some hopes that the pope might prevent any deep scarring of wood that should not be touched should a cut get away from me. I then pinned the keel very securely to the desk with a nice blank below it and my previous false keel above it. 

 

 

On the other side I had a thin blank that I then used a smaller clamp to keep the 3 pieces together. One nice though was that the rising wood actually provides the upper edge of the rabbet to if I did damage the upper edge at this point (without the rising wood attached in some areas of the keel this would make a very sharp angle which wood normally does not appreciate) then the rising wood would hide that in the completed model. (the two joints were simply because I just wanted the line and didn't care about matching pieces to the relevant keel sections)

 

My approach was to simply sharpen a hobbyist chisel and then push into the lower edge of the rabbet (at an L shape at the ends and slightly more at an upwards angle elsewhere). 

 

 

Then (not near the upper edge) but about half way down I cut an angle towards the first cut which usually generated a sliver of wood that due to the grain was easy to pop out. I could then cut again slightly higher (and near the upper edge) to increase the rabbet size. Once that was done I would have a semi reasonable v ish shape that I could then drag the corner of a chisel along to both clean the cut and enhance.

 

 

It had to be done in sections as I wanted the keel to be firmly supported (especially at the top) to minimize potential damage to the upper side of the keel.

 

 

 

 

[chris watton]

You are a man after my heart!

 

All the frigates you mention in your opening post are the same as the ones I want to develop!

[No Idea]

Matrim - I've just found your build and I'll be following along too.  You have some really good techniques there I think I'll steal them to help me out!  Good luck with your build

[druxey]

Good to see that wood chips are flying again!

[Matrim]

Thanks for the comments all.. Now for a brief digression onto rising wood planning. For some reason I am using the turbocad structure better to simplify the plans. As an example looking at my existing rising wood plan I would have previously put the measurements on each section making it somewhat confusing to read. After trying (taking my piece 1 as an example, the rear piece) copied it 5 times and then split the measurements over those  5 colour coding to differentiate better between vertical and horizontal as can be seen below. I then started on my cut plan and realised even that was excessive and I could just concentrate on those measurements which would need cutting. I could then change the print scale to 2.5:1 so it was much bigger and get all the relevant measurements in two copies.

 

Piece 1 is the smallest piece and I have enough wood to start producing some testing pieces to work out how I want to cut it. You can also see I am retaining my plan to simplify the piece by removing the horizontal angle and replacing with a straight edge.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Matrim
switched plan to bigger detail