AON Posted January 17, 2021 #1 Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) I have been given a very small quantity of wood (one piece 1" x 4" x 12" or 25.4 x 101 x 305mm) and I haven't a clue what it is. Can anyone help me identify it. it is a more dark than light shade of brown, with short streaks of white in it. The surface was stained and the end has something like a glue on it so I cannot see the end grain. I cut a few strips as I thought I'd use it but then I saw the actual colour pattern and now it's got me wondering. There is no specific scent and no appreciable weight to it. Edited January 17, 2021 by AON thibaultron 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted January 18, 2021 Author #2 Posted January 18, 2021 I am beginning to believe it to be a not so rare species called Adhmad Rúndiamhair. mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted January 19, 2021 Author #3 Posted January 19, 2021 Seems like it is time to contact the exotic lumber yard mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
bruce d Posted January 19, 2021 #4 Posted January 19, 2021 Alan, can't give you a name but I have seen those strands of white in a picture frame. The shop owner said it was a maple but did not have any more of the stock. This was years ago and I don't know why it stuck with me other than the visual impact of the wood. Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
AON Posted January 19, 2021 Author #5 Posted January 19, 2021 thank you Bruce but it does not look like any maple I've seen... possibly chinese maple? I've contact my supplier of choice and wait a response. bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
Jaager Posted January 19, 2021 #6 Posted January 19, 2021 It looks closer to Oak than Maple to me, but not either family. A bit coarse looking, I would use a lens and poke at the white streaks with a sharp awl point to determine the hardness there. I would be concerned that the white was a destructive fungal intrusion. druxey 1 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Solution Phil Babb Posted January 19, 2021 Solution #7 Posted January 19, 2021 It looks very similar to iroko which can have the white streaks in it, if you take a plane shaving of and its lighter in colour ,then could well be Iroko, as it darkens on the surface in light, regards Phil coxswain, bruce d, Bob Cleek and 1 other 4 Quote
bruce d Posted January 19, 2021 #8 Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Phil Babb said: It looks very similar to iroko I have not seen the white in iroko, but since my stash of that wood all came from the same source (salvaged garden furniture set) I suppose it can vary. The surface darkening on my pieces is really quick in bright sunlight. BTW, Alan, if it is iroko be careful as every splinter of iroko I have had has turned nasty, and DO NOT breathe the dust. mtaylor and coxswain 2 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold
Phil Babb Posted January 20, 2021 #9 Posted January 20, 2021 11 hours ago, bruce d said: I have not seen the white in iroko, but since my stash of that wood all came from the same source (salvaged garden furniture set) I suppose it can vary. The surface darkening on my pieces is really quick in bright sunlight. BTW, Alan, if it is iroko be careful as every splinter of iroko I have had has turned nasty, and DO NOT breathe the dust. Hi, yes iroko is the second most careceogenic timber in the world, I gave up using it in my cabinet making rope years ago as when you machine it you get almost flu like symptoms. You some times yet the resin streaks in meranti and other timbers but this looks a bit brown for those timbers. Regards Phil bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote
AON Posted January 21, 2021 Author #10 Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) Thank you all. I will look up Iroko as I've never heard of it before. The small piece of this mystery wood (Adhmad Rúndiamhair) that I was given seems to have been reclaimed from a piece of furniture (my guess). I have heard back from the two wood suppliers I deal with ( Exotic Woods in Burlington, Ontario and McQueen Custom Cuts which is nearer to me and supplies to local business and wood carvers), and neither have a clue as to what this might be. I certainly hope it is not a fungus. It doesn't seem to be. As for protection from wood dust, I always wear my dust mask (with HEPA Filters) and eye protection. I am constantly concerned for my eyes now ( Cataracts for which I recently had surgery, and Branch Retinal Vein Occlusion caused by Macular Edema for which I've been getting injections in my left eye for the last 4 years), and my Father-in-law worked at a lumber yard for 30 years which gifted him with COPD in his retirement years. Edited January 21, 2021 by AON bruce d 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
AON Posted January 21, 2021 Author #11 Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) Just did a google search and Iroko does seem to have tiny white streaks in it.... and I did develop a couple small rashes after working with it. At first I thought it might be Teak by which it is aka African Teak although it is not teak. The attached google photo is somewhat darker than my piece but I am going to assume this is what it is until something more convincing comes along. Thanks again! Edited January 21, 2021 by AON mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
jdowney Posted January 21, 2021 #12 Posted January 21, 2021 Wood ID is tough at that level. Its certainly tropical, iroko is quite likely. I've seen similar streaks in many woods though, including teak. Color is not right for teak however, unless its been finished (then teak can have that nice rich red brown). Raw teak is a more greenish color - I can go take a picture of some if you like, I still have some around. The only sure means of identification for most woods is to look at a thin shaving of end grain under magnification and compare the pore structure to reference samples or photos. ERS Rich and mtaylor 2 Quote
Jaager Posted January 22, 2021 #13 Posted January 22, 2021 All and all, I think a quote from one of your countrymen applies here: "You don't want it." mtaylor and bruce d 2 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Jolley Roger Posted January 31, 2021 #14 Posted January 31, 2021 I've seen similar white streaks in a wood that we call Meranti over here, a cheap wood mainly used in the construction industry. According to Wikipedia - They are sold under various trade names including "lauan", "lawaan", "meranti", "seraya", "balau", "bangkirai", and "Philippine mahogany". Genus - Shorea In my humble opinion it is not suitable for model ship building This is a sample i have in my wood pile with a bit of white streaking and some more from the same genus, but very different colors thibaultron, mtaylor and bruce d 2 1 Quote Samuel Pepys notes in his diary on 19 July 1667: "the Dutch fleets being in so many places, that Sir W. Batten at table cried, By God,says he, I think the Devil shits Dutchmen."
EricWilliamMarshall Posted February 1, 2021 #15 Posted February 1, 2021 If you are still curious, the best way to Identify wood is via a clean sectioning of the end grain and then taking a look with a 10x loupe. The bible for this sort of thing is: Hoadley, R. Bruce (1990). Identifying Wood A google search for ‘end grain wood identification’ will get you started. I can’t tell from the photo exactly but similar white flecks are found in numerous tropical species of wood. thibaultron, druxey and mtaylor 3 Quote Current adventures: USS Perry of 1843, model kit by Bluejacket - Scale 1:96 Lost at Sea: Dapper Tom - model kit by Model Shipways Previous adventures: an English Pinnace, model kit by Model Shipways, Opium Smuggler Schooner Yacht 1805, model kit by Authentic Holland Models Chesapeake Bay Flattie, model kit by Midwest, USS Constitution, model kit by Revell Albatros 1912, card model kit by HMV
EricWilliamMarshall Posted February 3, 2021 #16 Posted February 3, 2021 I should mention Wood Structure and Identification by H. A. Core is an excellent resource, but it is in black and white, and out of print. thibaultron and mtaylor 2 Quote Current adventures: USS Perry of 1843, model kit by Bluejacket - Scale 1:96 Lost at Sea: Dapper Tom - model kit by Model Shipways Previous adventures: an English Pinnace, model kit by Model Shipways, Opium Smuggler Schooner Yacht 1805, model kit by Authentic Holland Models Chesapeake Bay Flattie, model kit by Midwest, USS Constitution, model kit by Revell Albatros 1912, card model kit by HMV
jdbondy Posted July 8, 2021 #17 Posted July 8, 2021 This probably comes too late to help you Alan, but the US Forest Service has a lab in Madison Wisconsin that will do 3 free wood sample identifications per household. This is the Center for Wood Anatomy Research. The big drawback for you is that they would ideally want a sample that is 1"x3"x6". So like half of your board. And you don't get the sample back. I will probably be sending them some wood samples so I can report back in 4 weeks how the process goes. Here is the link: https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/research/centers/woodanatomy/wood_idfactsheet.php mtaylor, thibaultron, AON and 1 other 3 1 Quote JD Current build: Schooner Mary Day (scratch) Previous builds: Model Shipways Pride of Baltimore 2, Amati HMS Endeavour, Midwest Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack, Bluejacket America, Midwest Sharpie Schooner
kurtvd19 Posted July 9, 2021 #18 Posted July 9, 2021 I was going to mention the lab in Madison but Alan's from Canada so there is probably some requirement for being a US citizen. I spent some time at the lab before I retired and it is impressive. I witnessed a test of a 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 wood piece about 10 ft long to see how much weight/force it could withstand. They do this so the charts in building code and architectural books can be developed so the minimum sizes of wood components can be determined. We were behind plexiglas several inches thick and when the post failed it was very impressive - loud and toothpicks everywhere! Something they had there that is a relevant topic for this forum was a replica of the hull of the USS Constitution. It was about 6 ft long and about 4 ft high and had appropriately sized frames and planks assembled with treenails. It was made by the shipwrights in Boston before the 1996 refit so various electronic means of testing for structural integrity could be tested while in the water to determine what planks or frames might have to be replaced. This is commonly done with metal ships and they did it to see if a similar process would work with wood. The same woods as on the 1:1 ship were used. mtaylor, Roger Pellett, thibaultron and 2 others 5 Quote Kurt Van Dahm Director NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD www.thenrg.org SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS CLUBS Nautical Research & Model Ship Society of Chicago Midwest Model Shipwrights North Shore Deadeyes The Society of Model Shipwrights Butch O'Hare - IPMS
thibaultron Posted July 9, 2021 #19 Posted July 9, 2021 I watched a lecture given by the curator of the Wasa museum. They had a replica of one of the cannons cast (I think a 24 pounder), and test fired it against a replica of the side of the Wasa.The cannon ball passed completely through the side of the hull, even if there was a frame in the way! The difference was fewer splinters (the main killer in such a situation), if the ball only hit an area without a frame. He said they calculated that the ball would likely also go through the other side! Roger Pellett and mtaylor 2 Quote Ron Thibault Shipjack Carrie Price from Pyro kit, with upgraded detailing and history. Going From A 2D Drawing To A 3D Printed Part Tutorial
mtaylor Posted July 9, 2021 #20 Posted July 9, 2021 8 hours ago, thibaultron said: I watched a lecture given by the curator of the Wasa museum. They had a replica of one of the cannons cast (I think a 24 pounder), and test fired it against a replica of the side of the Wasa.The cannon ball passed completely through the side of the hull, even if there was a frame in the way! The difference was fewer splinters (the main killer in such a situation), if the ball only hit an area without a frame. He said they calculated that the ball would likely also go through the other side! There are some Youtube videos out there of this. As I recall there's a couple in slow motion showing the splinter spread. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Roger Pellett Posted July 10, 2021 #21 Posted July 10, 2021 The maritime museum in Erie, Pennsylvania that operates the Brig Niagara has also performed this same experimental Archeology using 1812 era weapons. Roger thibaultron and mtaylor 2 Quote
reklein Posted July 11, 2021 #22 Posted July 11, 2021 The white flecks in the wood may indicate teak. As it is known to have flecks of calcium imbedded in the wood. This also makes it hard on woodworking tool edges. Luan is used on certain types of ply for floor underlayment as it is knot free so will avoid dents in the floor. AON and mtaylor 1 1 Quote Bill, in Idaho Completed Mamoli Halifax and Billings Viking ship in 2015 Next Model Shipways Syren
ERS Rich Posted August 1, 2021 #23 Posted August 1, 2021 First pic looks like poplar to me…. Studied with a master furniture maker, and when asked, said often he couldn’t identify the species…. Comes down to use….what would you like to do with it…? mtaylor 1 Quote Build Logs: USS Maine, USS Constitution (Hull) Albums: Baltimore Clipper, Sherbourne Cutter, Lackawanna Tug, Eagle Coastal Schooner, Katy Pilot Boat, Sultana Colonial Schooner, Armed Virginia Sloop
AON Posted August 1, 2021 Author #24 Posted August 1, 2021 Poplar, hmm. I used it as contrast for the floor boards and double bladed paddle of my kayak. mtaylor 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
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