Home, bench top laser cutters.

[Bill Hudson]

I am wondering if ny one is using a laser cutter in their ship building. Are they compatible with Mac? Dose one also need a computer drawing program?

Thanks

Bill

[Jaager]

Bill,

 

I really should not be getting involved, because I do not have one. But I will list what I think I know about them.

 

They are not inexpensive.

They require ventilation of heat generated gasses when cutting.

They are controlled by a vector based drawing program - most of these are a bit costly.

The program takes time to master and each job is hands on.

There is a thickness of stock limit.

 

On a wooden sailing vessel - almost every part is one off - so there is not much copy/paste involved with the vectors for each part.

The computer work and time required does not translate into much if any advantage over scroll cutting a pattern fixed to the wood stock.  A laser does allow closer packing and less loss to waste, but the waste is marginal in the over all cost.

 

If multiple copies of a single vessel is the goal - if a home business is the purpose - this machine almost manditory.

For a modeler building one copy of a vessel, a laser cutter is almost impossible to justify buying - unless the process involved with the computer instructions and the machine operation is what is the attraction.

[Gregory]

3 hours ago, Bill Hudson said:

Are they compatible with Mac? Dose one also need a computer drawing program?

I would say 'yes' to both of those.  Most, if not all, tabletop lasers use a USB interface.  My experience on laser user forums tells me MAC users tend to have more interface problems due to driver issues.

 

The software that usually comes with DIY lower cost lasers is notoriously not very useful.

 

A sight I visit a lot Is the Support Forum for LightBurn software..   

More info about the software here:  LightBurn

 

Visiting that forum will tell you a lot about what kind of issues people have. Using it for model ship building can be as useful as any number of other tools.

 

Whether or not you can use LightBurn depends on the controller board of the laser.

It is a very robust cutting/engraving  program, that has limited creation tools.  It works best with images that you have already prepared with other editing programs like Adobe or Corel.

 

The usefulness of the laser itself depends on your goals and building technique.   You can create virtually any part that you see in todays kits that include laser cut parts.  You are essentially limited to 2D, but depending on your own creativity, you can create 3D parts by building it up in layers.

You can even explore carving by using the laser to create rough templates, then finishing them by had.

 

The table-top lasers tend to be relatively low power, and not able to cut through very thick material.  They would be most useful for engraving.

 I used a low power one for a while, and found it useful for essentially 'etching' a pattern on plywood or whatever, then using a scroll saw to cut it out.

The scroll saw would tend to follow the laser burn more so than a drawn patter.

 

If you decide to get a laser, be prepared for a steep learning curve in order to use it effectively.

Another thing to consider, is that the lower priced, put it together yourself, lasers are even more of a challenge before you even begin to burn anything..

 

P.S.

 

As  Jaager  mentions above, you do not want to operate a laser inside a house/workspace without some kind of forced ventilation system to the outside world.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Gregory

[Nirvana]

The desktop laser machines are not meant for cutting (maybe very thin veneer) but mostly for used for engraving.

Laser cutter has a steep learning curve.

In order to get a good "cutting" laser you will find ones starting at 2400 dollars.

Anything below 1000 will not hold up for what we are doing. Ask Chuck what he is using.

He certainly know the laser cutter.

 

You need a good vector based program something like Corel Draw, which has a steeper learning curve.
 

I do have a suggestion, search if you have a MakerSpace in your area, they will certainly have a good laser, with that you will find a person who knows how the machine is working and will certify you for it. It's fun once you learned it.

[mtaylor]

As others have mentioned... lasers come in all sizes and shapes and prices.   Same for the software.   

 

Perhaps you could give us more info.. such as wood thickness and species and what you're thinking about cutting/etching?

 

There is a learning curve first with the drafting software and then there's the laser itself.  I've had to run tests on just about every type and thickness of the woods I use.  A bit of a pain but the numbers give me a starting point which then will be fine toned when I start cutting.

 

I have a 50 W tube in my laser (it's old... it was pricey... and is rather basic.  Basically it's a glorified K40).  It's basic in that I've had to modify it for different thickness cuts, not mention upping the power over the stock tube which needed a different power supply   Sadly, most of the time, it just sits in the corner waiting for me patiently as lately I've not had much to cut on it.

 

BTW, my laser sits on it's own bench along with the power supply.  I do have a cooling unit instead of using the bucket of ice water most seem have used.   It's about 32" X 28" with a cutting area of 12 X 10 or so.

 

 

[Bill Hudson]

Thanks for the feedback.  It is more  a curiosity for me.  It seems to me to be the ticket for producing parts for scratch building of ship models. 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[mtaylor]

34 minutes ago, Bill Hudson said:

Thanks for the feedback.  It is more  a curiosity for me.  It seems to me to be the ticket for producing parts for scratch building of ship models. 

Bill

With the new generations of laser cutters, 3D printing, and CNC mills, etc,. there's a lot of choices as to the best set up for each person.  Some suppliers are still using lasers and some others have gone to CNC.  It's all a matter of picking your tools.....  

[wefalck]

It depends really on what you would like to do with it. Serious cutting of wood, above very thin veneer, requires already quite serious equipment with a 20W+ laser probably. As others noted before, it also requires quite a bit of infrastructure, such as for cooling and ventilation.

 

About 15 months ago I got myself a cheapo little 3W cutter/engraver at around 100€. As I am working on miniatures, the working surface of 50 mm x 50 mm is largely sufficient. However, you are basically limited to cutting thin, dark cardstock. Have a look at my S.M.S. WESPE building log, where I wrote about my trials, troubles and tribulations with it.

I did make quite a few delicate bits and pieces with it. The software is bit-image based, not vectorised, which makes it simple, but there are limitations. And it does not run on a Mac. I tried with a MS Windows emulator ('Parallels'), but somehow it did not work. I run it off an old little laptop with MS Windows XP on it instead.

The amount of burned-away material is small, so one doesn't need to worry too much about ventilation (until the Admiral complains) unless you try to cut some nasty materials.

[Gregory]

I was looking at your anchors for the WESPE, and that is an excellent example of using laser cut layers to make a 3D part..

 

 

Very nice work and a very good argument for using a small laser to make small parts..

Edited April 30, 2021 by Gregory

[wefalck]

Thanks ... but 3D printing would have been probably better for this. As with all tools and methods, they have their specific areas of application and 'one size does not fit all'. 'Light' laser-cutting is probably best suited for flat and intricate parts that would be difficult to hold and manipulate. In this sense it can replace photo-etching to some degree

[bricklayer]

There`s an Englishman who seems to be laser-addicted. You`ll hardly find a better teacher.

It takes several hours or days to watch and listen to the videos attentively. After having done so you can take a sound decision whether a laser cutting/engraving machine is the right tool for your workshop or not.

Be aware that those cheap chinese machines are class 4 lasers. If you want to operate a machine that complies to european and US laws, then you have to get a class 1 device. Only a class one device guarantees save operation.

The DC excited laser tubes have a limited lifetime that varies from some hundred to some thousand hours. If the cutting job requires 50 to 60 W power then you`d buy an 80 W tube. The CO2 in the tube degrades less when it`s runs below maximum power rating. The laser tube has to be water cooled by means of an external chiller and tubing. There`s got to be permanent air flow through the nozzle. Fumes and smoke have to be extracted from the machine and led outdoors with a blower or led into a three or four stage filtering device.

 

It takes some effort to run a laser cutting/engraving machine save and properly.

Bill, I don`t want to scare you. I advise to obtain knowledge before to take a decision.

A laser cutter makes sense, only, if you create the cutting/engraving files yourself by means of any software that generates vector graphics.

If you depend on third party files, only, then you`re lost.

 

My incomplete contribution to this subject.

 

Michael

    

[Nirvana]

I have a 3d printer and with my brand there is attachment for laser engraving.
Some guys has even been able to cut card stock with the 3W laser head.
And yes, with laser and 3d printing safety is important. There is a lot of heat involved. But also having proper air extraction.
There are a lot of fumes involved.
The bed for 3d printing is heated has a working temperature from 55°C to 80°C depending of material.

Next the extruder head has even a higher temperature.

 

Best thing you can do is learn the drafting of components and send the files to a company for laser cutting.

You will be able to order quite a lot of cut material for the price of a laser cutter.
 

[Wahka_est]

I have flux beambox pro 50w. Can cut up to 6mm ply with one pass. We bought it to have small side business that isnt ongoing yet.

i use autocad daily so design isnt issue for me. Like with all machine there is learning period-power and different woods.
Havent used it for ship building yet but all other stuff yes-cars, trains for my sun. Engraving bottles etc.

If you have more question you can pm me.

Some samples i have done.

[Wahka_est]

I just add that there are machines like k40 that are cheap(200-300usd) but have long learning curve. If you have time and like to tweak machines then for start it should be enough.

But you you want machine to work as you plug it in and shorter learning curve then they are more expensive.

 

[ryangibson0026]

I recommend ORTUR Laser Master 2 laser cutter and this CNC laser cutter engraver here is a top contender for other high-end cutters; this low-cost laser engraver has it all. From a master firmware, a smarter and faster motherboard, to a higher precision head, anything, and everything that ensures professional quality result, you will find in this particular engraver.

[Gregory]

Another table top laser with 'CNC' incorrectly part of the description..  There is no CNC function for this machine.

No power rating in the Amazon info, but searching the questions indicates it is a 4w laser.

 

No useful cutting power except for paper and card and the thinnest of veneers.

 

Possibly a good starter for getting familiar with using a laser.

[Tim Holt]

They can be really useful for secondary things. 
 

Here are some pictures of a material and tools holder I cut out recently.  Some 3D printed inserts to keep the tools in place. 
 

it’s basically just a set of separate boxes glued together. 

[ChrisTaylor]

For context: I'm still building my first model ship (Artesania's viking ship) and I'm designing my first unambitious original model ... but I know a thing or two about laser cutters. Just a thing or two, mind -- I make no claims at expertise. I'm a teacher and have an Emblaser 2 in my classroom. The (primary) students and I use InkScape to design things, and then cut them out of laser-grade plywood.

Some thoughts:

 

- Everything everyone else said is true;

- I think InkScape (open source/free) will do the job, but be prepared to learn it -- and the cutting process itself -- through trial and error;

- Cardstock is a nice way to trial cuts without wasting expensive plywood;

- Desktop units, including my Emblaser, have limitations (the thicknesses of materials, the kinds of materials, etc) you'll need to work within;

- The very young students and I learnt through play, and you'll need to do the same -- as with kits, at some point you need to stop reading advice and just get stuck in.

 

In short, it's a commitment unto itself, above and beyond designing and assembling the model. If you're into that kind of thing -- and I am -- it's an enjoyable journey. If computers are a means to an end, you may be better off buying a scroll saw.

 

EDIT

 

In addition to the above, I think the best way to learn about laser cutters is trial and error. I encourage children to learn that way, as it's how I learn. For instance, in the past few days I cut some pieces for the model I've designed. I learnt a few things: the order in which you cut pieces matters a great deal. I mean, on some level that's obvious ... but for what I was doing, it wasn't obvious to my inexperienced brain. I also made the pieces a bit too thin. That's probably less to do with laser cutting and more to do with my lack of experience using store-bought kits ... but, still, the measurements on screen seemed okay, but the finished product was more fragile than what I hoped for. These mistakes are easy to correct in InkScape, but nonetheless chewed up a few sheets of plywood.

 

You'll also want to think about ventilation. The Emblaser comes with a hose you poke out the window, but if you're in some high-rise apartment building or somewhere bitterly cold you might need to pay for a filtration unit. I'm unfamiliar with other laser cutters, but I can't imagine they'd work any differently. 

 

One other thing that's cool, I guess, is you can cut other materials. For context, the model I'm making is a replica of my brother-in-law's fishing boat (an unambitious subject, but accessible ... and if it turns out half-way decent I'll pass the model onto him). The actual boat has carpeted flooring. The Emblaser is very happy to cut out felt. Now, a pair of scissors can do that, but there's no way my scissor-work will match the accuracy and low-effort-to-reward ratio of what the laser cutter can do in about two minutes. I can use the same image I made of the 'upper deck' (or whatever it'd be called on such a small craft) to cut out a 'carpet' that's precisely the same size. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by ChrisTaylor
Added some further thoughts

[Tim Holt]

If you've not seen the Syren Ship Model Company's laser-cut blocks, you should check them out.  This is a great example of something a laser cutter is great at, and also of a definitely not one-off part.

 

https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/internally-strapped-rigging-blocks.php

[Tim Holt]

Oh in addition to Inkscape, you can also use the free, web-based Tinkercad (https://www.tinkercad.com/) to create 3D models for both 3D printing and export to SVG cut files for laser cutting.  When you export to SVG, it just creates lines from the top view.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Tim Holt

[PRS]

Instead of a laser cutter what about one of the small desktop CNC machines?

 

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07ZFD6SKP/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07ZFD6SKP&pd_rd_w=90gZ6&pf_rd_p=446ad332-bb28-4fcd-8b39-3092201fe0b1&pd_rd_wg=eJyF3&pf_rd_r=936D1BGWPP9Y4FD23ARG&pd_rd_r=4369458f-59f0-4e7e-9b82-24266e3281d9&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzOE82WUxYVENKV1I3JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDIzMDg2SEdQRE1EQzUxUENIJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwNjQyMjYyTkRITFVSNzZCNlVCJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

 

[wefalck]

A CNC-machine does not make 0.2 mm square holes, for instance, ... it all depends on what you are trying to do with it. They are not necessarily substitutes.

Edited May 23, 2021 by wefalck

[chris watton]

26 minutes ago, wefalck said:

A CNC-machine does not make 0.2 mm square holes, for instance, ... it all depends on what you are trying to do with it. They are not necessarily substitutes.

And they can be very, very noisy, and you get dust everywhere..