HM Sloop Echo 1781 by VTHokiEE - 1:48 - Cross-Section

[VTHokiEE]

I've long been interested in attempting a scratch build but I was simultaneously hesitant because I over analyze everything and couldn't get past finding lumber of the correct dimensions - enter Modeler's Sawmill. I finally threw caution the the wind and inquired if @Joe V could put together an Echo framing package for me in Alaskan Yellow Cedar - The smell is incredible. I choose the Echo cross section (tricky framing and all) because my end goal is to attempt an admiralty style fully framed hull and I thought the skills  developed in this build "should" put me on a path towards that goal. I have picked up the TFFM series to help me along though the first volume is most applicable for the initial framing portion of the build. If this goes well I plan on fully fitting out the build, but we'll make that final call when I get there.

 

My power tools are limited (Byrnes Saw and Disc sander...I can see the usefulness of a spindle sander for touching up the frames but workshop space is limited so I'll see what I can do without one) so this build will progress at a leisurely pace (that pace is also do to the fact that I have no idea what I'm doing so please, any tips pointers and corrections are welcomed). I have printed out the keel plans and away we go (I see some mention of using a table saw to cut out the keel joint - I assume this is done by taking slow swipes and creating the joint through the blade's kerf? I can't envision a safe way to accomplish this otherwise). Wish me luck!

PS - If I can remember I'll try to include some pictures of my failed attempts at parts so that anyone following along can see that if I can do this then you can too.

[Gregory]

Do you have some snips of the plans you are working from?  Just the general arrangement..

 

Looking forward to following your progress..

[VTHokiEE]

37 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Do you have some snips of the plans you are working from?

I suppose that brings me to reason #2 that I choose the Echo cross section. I have purchased the Triton plans, but as I said I have no idea what I'm doing so I didn't really know how to fit that out once I did the initial framing. Admiralty Models very generously has the Echo cross section plans available on their website: http://www.admiraltymodels.com/Tips.html along with some PowerPoint slides and PDFs that I pray will help enlighten me along the way.

Edited October 29, 2021 by VTHokiEE

[Gregory]

Looks like a great project to cut your scratch building teeth on.  Not too ambitious so as to be discouraging..

[druxey]

I've built many fully framed hulls without owning a spindle sander, as I'm sure others have as well. Some joints are far better cut using a very sharp chisel, unless you are Greg and have all the bells and whistles for a milling machine!

 

For cutting curved pieces you will need a jeweler's saw and bench pin if you do not own a scroll saw.

[dvm27]

Best of luck on your build. As David suggested, at a minimum you'll need to become proficient with a jewelers saw as there are many complex futtocks in the model. Taking your time and learning how to use files properly can result in an excellent model (as evidenced by Harold Hahn).

[VTHokiEE]

1 hour ago, druxey said:

Some joints are far better cut using a very sharp chisel,

Thank you for the advice. I do have a jeweler's saw and a bench pin (but my darn homemade benchtop is too thick for the clamping jaw on it...doh, so I'll be chiseling out a spot for it in the near future).  Based on reading the intro to TFFM Vol. 1 I have a some sharpening tools on my Christmas list. Unfortunately, so far my procurement department has rejected POs for milling machines, cnc machines and other exotic toys - my justifications even to myself are weak at the moment, but maybe someday 🙂. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by VTHokiEE

[Old Collingwood]

Good luck with the new build my friend  - I will  get my chair ready.

 

OC.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks Greg and OC - I'm excited for it.

 

46 minutes ago, dvm27 said:

you'll need to become proficient with a jewelers saw

Thanks for the heads up; realistically I need to learn how to be proficient with many of my tools. I have my finger's crossed that there is some Alaskan Cedar left for everyone else by the time I'm through, I'm going in with a do it over until you get it right mantra.

[VTHokiEE]

As previously stated this entire build is a huge learning curve for me so before I jump into my nicely milled wood I decided to attempt to build a "throw away" keel from some hard maple that I have. I made my first attempt at "milling" some lumber with my Byrnes saw; I came in a little under the 1/4" that I was aiming for but it should be close enough for what I want to do with it - practice.

 

First up I cut two equally sized strips to create the keel joint - so far so good.

Next I set the saw blade to half the thickness and start chopping away - way too fast. As will be learned later I needed to take much slower "strokes" through the blade. Since this didn't work (and with uh oh and confusion in my head) I decided to chop off the joint and try again this time with a razor saw (because I certainly am much steadier and more accurate that my saw 🙄).

Hmmm improvement, but I need more practice keeping my blade straight - so back to the table saw.

Finally things started clicking and I can build off this.

 

The joint isn't perfect yet - I need to sand the ends perpendicular before moving to the saw (at least for these pieces), but confidence is back on the rise. I am struggling a little with is how to set the blade to a height accurately, but this left some room for filing everything down nicely. Of course I then proceeded to destroy the piece by attempting to glue the pieces together with glue mixed with black paint. 

Oh well, not a perfect ending, but I'm learning. I'll probably attempt a few more before moving into the real deal - but this is a lot of fun. When I get a keel put together with the cedar I'll be back, until then thanks for checking in.

 

[Gregory]

At that scale, try some black tissue paper..

[BobG]

5 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

so this build will progress at a leisurely pace (that pace is also do to the fact that I have no idea what I'm doing

 

I too would love to do a scratch build someday but, like you, I would have no idea of what I was getting into or any advice to offer either! So I'll be very content to follow along on your bold adventure and wish you the best of luck! 

[glbarlow]

Best of luck. I’m sure it will be an excellent learning opportunity. 
 

 

….what’s a bench pin….?

[VTHokiEE]

19 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

what’s a bench pin….?

One of these:

[VTHokiEE]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

At that scale, try some black tissue paper..

I think that’s the best solution. I don’t have any on hand so I tried the black glue experiment.

[mtaylor]

I suggest take a bit of time and go look at the Trition cross-section logs (look for the finished ones) and also do a quick search in the Scratch area with the key word(s) "cross section", "cross-section" and see what the others have done.  Your keel test joint looks good from here.

[VTHokiEE]

2 hours ago, BobG said:

I too would love to do a scratch build someday but, like you, I would have no idea of what I was getting into

I hope you take the plunge someday; for me at least I decided the only way I was going to learn was jumping in with both feet (we’ll see how it goes but I think it’ll work out… probably with some stages of extreme frustration, but the payoff is worth it).

[davec]

I had a great time building this cross section, and learned a huge amount.  There are lots of people on MSW who are probably better sources of advice than me, but if you need input from someone who also tends to "over analyze everything," I'm happy to help any time.  I'm really looking forward to seeing your progress.  Great work on your practice pieces.  

 

Dave

Edited October 30, 2021 by davec

[Edwardkenway]

I've been waiting for this Tim, I hope you enjoy the experience, I know I  did on the Triton cross section. 

Comfy chair ready!

[glbarlow]

I've had the wood kit for this cross section for years, just never motivated to start it. I'm sure following your log will motivate me to look at it again.  I did manage not to break into the lovely boxwood that I have for some other project so it must stay on my mind some.  The practice runs on the keel are a really good plan, taking it slow to get it right.

[BobG]

2 hours ago, Edwardkenway said:

I've been waiting for this Tim, I hope you enjoy the experience, I know I  did on the Triton cross section. 

Comfy chair ready!

 

I've never known how to pronounce VTHiokEE correctly and haven't figured out what it means either. So from now on it's Tim for me! 🤣

 

[BobG]

8 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I've had the wood kit for this cross section for years, just never motivated to start it

I would love to see you build this cross section, Glenn. You'd do a fantastic job on it.

[glbarlow]

2 minutes ago, BobG said:

love to see you build this cross section

Thanks Bob, but next up is Winchelsea. That will consume at least the next two years if not longer. Go big or go home 😄

 

[VTHokiEE]

41 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

next up is Winchelsea

I recall a build log, but the owner is escaping me, who added a cutout frame section (similar to the confederacy kit maybe?) that looked really cool. Anyhow, I’ve got my eye on your log when it kicks off in earnest.

 

47 minutes ago, BobG said:

never known how to pronounce VTHiokEE correctly and haven't figured out what it means either

Ha! It truly isn’t that clever but you may live on the wrong side of the country to figure it out.

 

20 hours ago, mtaylor said:

suggest take a bit of time and go look at the Trition cross-section logs

Great suggestion, I currently am overflowing the tabs in my browser with cross sections logs 🙃.

 

5 hours ago, davec said:

if you need input from someone who also tends to "over analyze everything," I'm happy to help any time. 

Your log is a great one that I hope to use extensively and since you offered be warned the chances of me taking you up on that are quite high.

[davec]

Tim-

 

Feel free to take me up on the offer - it is the least I can do given the number of people who helped me.

 

VTHokiEE - not sure about the two capital E's at the end, but it looks like you have spent some time in my part of the country

 

Dave

[BobG]

32 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

Ha! It truly isn’t that clever but you may live on the wrong side of the country to figure it out.

 

4 minutes ago, davec said:

VTHokiEE - not sure about the two capital E's at the end, but it looks like you have spent some time in my part of the country

Well, this is making me feel rather dense! 🤣

[Edwardkenway]

2 minutes ago, BobG said:

 

Well, this is making me feel rather dense! 🤣

Yes, me too!🙄😂

Edited October 30, 2021 by Edwardkenway

[glbarlow]

Virginia Tech Hokie I'm guessing, though don't know about EE substituting for the ie

[glbarlow]

42 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

a cutout frame section

I've seen that. The Winnie without that is more than enough challenge for me.

[VTHokiEE]

27 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

though don't know about EE substituting

You all are hot on the trail, an EE is shorthand for an electrical engineer - now that the cats out of the bag so to speak you all can see how it isn’t all that clever 😃