Armed Virginia Sloop by CiscoH - Model Shipways - 1:48

[JLong]

Had a good time hanging out, talking ship with you as well, Cisco. The longboat you brought was a very pretty model. 

 

The waterway on the Fair American was a pain too. I didn't feel skilled enough to scarf the waterway, plus mine didn't come with one at all. Yours looks really nice! I especially like the clamped-down wedge approach - I wish I thought of that.

I ended up soaking mine for few hours, and then clamping it to bulkheads, while still wet. Kinked horribly at the bow.

 

With the sanded down bulkheads, attaching the main cap rail later might cause you some trouble.  Are you planning on pinning it, or simple glue?

 

Keep up the good work

 

- Jason -

[src]

Cisco,

Well done on the hooked scarfs, the addition of the dust in the joint makes a big difference. When I cut the scarfs on my Enterprise I wish I had done something similar, other than on the transom all that hard work has disappeared.

Agreed on the use of hand tools, I love watching what others are doing with laser cutters and 3d printing, but for me I need the feel of making dust myself.

Sam

[CiscoH]

Rainy Sunday morning, wife and dogs all asleep, kids and loaner kid playing board games, perfect time for an update.

 

Jason I have no idea whats going to happen with the cap rails.  My hope is once its planked on the inside it'll be fat enough to just glue, but maybe I'll pin it as well.  Future Cisco's problem.

 

Sam/SRC I completely agree.  For me point of this hobby is to do as much as I can myself with hand tools.  But i have to admit its fun seeing what other people are doing with computer aided technology even if I don't want to.  The printed cannons have looked pretty interesting...

 

So on to my AVS.  This week is a more detailed description of making the port side waterway.  In theory it should have gone smoother after practicing on the starboard side.  In theory.  Here goes:

 

First, after making the straight section of the waterway and forming the first hook scarf, I created a card model of the front section from a cut up yellow folder.  Miraculously I managed to keep the scarf orientation the mirror image of the port side.  After some adjustments to the scarfs I traced the card onto my 1/8" thick holly stock.

The I cut the traced portion out with a hand jigsaw.  Sorry this pic is a little blurry.  The camera didn't know what to focus on.

Then smoothing out the curve to the penciled line with a spokeshave.

After fitting the new part I traced the first scarf and chiseled the majority of the waste (holly is very crumbly so you can get away with a lot) then used files as before to sneak up onto the lines.

Once I had a reasonable fit I did the same for the final bow waterway piece.

After sanding all the pieces I ended up with the following.  I left the pieces a little fat for final fitting.

The picture makes the scarf joints look tight but holding them up to the light there were definite gaps.  You file one side to tighten the fit and it makes the opposite side open up some so it was a definite Walk Away situation before you oversanded. 

Next I made the gap filler- holly dust mixed with pencil graphite; then mixed with white glue.

And here is the waterway after glue-up.  The gap filler beads over the joint and has to be gently chiseled and not sanded; otherwise the graphite stains the holly grey.

After some chiseling I got to the below stage:

I then traced both edges of the miter with my compass and cut to the lines using my spokeshaves and some sandpaper wrapped around a dowel for the very curvey areas, then glued the waterway in place same as last post. 

I want to keep the holly as white as possible so I used water based polyurethane as a finish.  This area seemed like it would be hard to get into the corners in the future without creating glops of finish so I took care of that now.  I found a qtip with a piece of cut off t-shirt rubber banded on worked great as a applicator (I hate cleaning brushes) and I used another piece of clean t-shirt to wipe it down right afterwards; my version of wipe on poly. 

Seemed to work great.  I have soft white LEDs above my bench which makes the holly look yellower than it would in daylight.

 

And thats it for this week.  I haven't printed out the next chapter of the practicum yet but I think its second planking.

 

Stay dry

 

Cisco

Edited October 2, 2022 by CiscoH

[Paul Le Wol]

Hi Cisco, great looking scarf joints. Definitely going  to have to give your Q-tip idea a try.

[Sluicemaster]

Hello Cisco;

 

Your work on the scarf joints is a real inspiaration for me.  As I think and plan ahead on my Armed Launch, I've pondered how to do the cap rails.  The method outlined in the plans just won't work for me.  I don't like the beech wood supplied with the kit, so I purchased cherry wood 3mm x 10mm strips, and also a sheet of cherry 3mm thick.  As I noted in on my Armed Launch posts, bending the whole strip won't work.  The sheet wood was purchased with the thought of cutting the rails out in one piece.  That would look "Hokey"!  After seeing your great handiwork, I'm fairly certain that I can bend the strips enough to cut into short sections and use scarf joints to join them.  The most forward section may have to be cut from sheet stock.  My primary concern is my skill set to make decent scarfs, so I'll practice with the kit wood because it will be some time until I need them.  I note that you are using the Practicum.  Would you recommend it?  I have two kits on the shelf - the AVS and the New Bedford Whaleboat.  I'm a long way from starting either, but I like to plan ahead, so I've already purchased Syren rope and blocks for both kits, and would purchase the Practicum if it is well written and composed.

 

Best Regards, Sluicemaster

[captain_hook]

Nice work so far, I remember my own build very well. It is a very good kit for beginner and intermediate builders to develope and try new skills with a detailed manual that covers all knowledge necessary to build the AVS. Beside the practicum and the manual the book „Modeling an Armed Virginia Sloop“ by Clayton Feldman is also a good addition - the kit is probably based on his model. Keep up the good work and good luck with your next steps. 

[CiscoH]

Update time!  I spent the afternoon watching my son (age 7) playing his second ever football game, which was right after his second ever football practice.  He had little idea of what was going on, along with the other kids seemed to do the opposite of what the coach said, and all had a great time.  Then I left him at a friend's house for a sleepover, wife and daughter are napping upstairs, and I am gifted with that rare thing called "free time."

 

Sluicemaster; I meant to practice my hooked scarfs on some scrap but the ones I did for real turned out well enough.  I also seem to do really well on the first ones, almost as good on the second, and then the third try I'm either out of karma or overconfident.  So I never ended up doing any trial runs.

 

In terms of the practicum (LaukStreetShipyard.com) I have found it very useful as another source of information- the entire thing is 150? pages long.  But it also has added some confusion, see below, and I haven't followed all of his advice.  He spent 2+ pages talking about how the bullwark planking didn't measure correctly on the plans, which it is pretty clearly because the kit supplied waterway is much thicker than the plans say it is.  So you either adjust the other planking widths (what he did in the practicum and what I will end up doing because I didn't understand all this until After I put in my waterway and I ainte fixing it) or measure twice and thin the waterway before installation.  I didn't think it was too big a deal but it got him pretty fired up.

 

As Captain-Hook mentioned above, I also have Dr Feldman's "Modeling an AVS" which the kit is directly based on.  An enthusiastic read and one of the written sources that got me into this hobby.

 

And the AVS is a good beginner choice due to all the build logs here; Captain-Hook's is one I have referenced many times.

 

So on to this week's "progress"

 

The practicum gets very confusing at the stern.  I followed the directions as close as I was able but still must have messed up somewhere.  My curved fashion pieces seem too short compared to the sheet plans that came with the AVS and Dr Feldman's pictures (in black and white and a little grainy so hard to see tiny details well).  The wales are supposed to end with the top flush with the fashion piece and the bottom even with the bottom of the counter.  Below is the wale even with the counter:

A pretty big gap.  So I chiseled off my old fashion pieces and remade them longer.  Below i have just glued the first one in place.

Here is a stern shot with the new fashion piece, to port, old fashion piece to starboard.  There is a gap as the hull curves downwards but I will cover that space with the remaining counter planking; Dr Feldman does a similar thing.  In hindsight I should have made the inside of the fashion piece curve to match the hull but I'm not remaking them for a 3rd time.

Next I cut out my wales from holly stock, same as I did in earlier posts (smooth one edge of the billet with my handplane, bandsaw off a piece, bring it to 1/8" thick with my blockplane, then cut off strips with a steel straightedge and an xacto).  Very labour intensive.  I'm not sure how well that will work with the really thin holly strips for hull planking but thats a future problem.

One nice thing about holly is it bends even easier than basswood.  I soaked the 1/8" strip in water for 10 minutes then bent it around a glass and left it overnight.  Worked perfect.

I was concerned about clamping the wale without having it slip about so I put in the kit brass nails along its top border as seen below.  This way when clamping, which pulls the strip upwards, the nails would keep the wale in place.  Hopefully without denting it.  I also cleaned any glue buildup out of the bow rabbit and thinned the last inch of the wale so it fit the rabbit snug.

Then I did a trial run figuring out clamps (I need more of the dewalts).  I also am really glad I didn't fill in the stern windows (on purpose) so they could be used as clamp purchases; very vital here to clamp the final inward curve of the wale.

And that yellow porcupine is currently drying in the basement.  I felt that the fashion pieces were too fat so I managed to trim the top edge in place (I cannot believe that worked); if you look closely above you can see the ghost border.

 

Next up is the port wale, then the inside and outside scuppers. 

 

Hope you all had a calm, enjoyable weekend.  Thanks for reading.

 

Cisco

Edited October 10, 2022 by CiscoH

[CiscoH]

Good Evening fellow MSWers;

 

I finally got a new iphone when the gps stopped working on my old one.  The pictures to me seem sharper but I'm struggling with the technology, especially Live Photos which I find creepy.  Also, my computer doesn't like downloading these new photo/short video clip files.  Technology!

 

Last time I had installed the wales, whose placement determines where everything else goes.  So the last 2 weeks has been working on adding the black strake and spirkiting planks, both of which have scuppers cut into them.  I quickly decided not to make the scuppers connect through the upper bulwarks; I figured there was no way I would successful line them up and cut connecting holes without scratching up the waterway and wale. 

 

The scuppers took a few test tries to get right.  The scupper "hole" is a rectangle with rounded edges and you can't form them with square files.  So first I wet the stock and bent the sternward end by soaking in water for a few minutes and letting it dry clamped to a round glass.  Once I had this plank trimmed to correct length I marked out where each scupper would go, made each one 1/8" wide, eyeballed the height then marked each one using a compass.  I then cut out a triangle of wood from the center with my chisel and filed to the pencil marks with a round Vallorbe 140mm file.  These files were recommended in a thread a while ago and are worth every penny- they cut beautifully and are very precise. 

Sorry the above picture isn't perfectly in focus.  Right after I said this new camera took better photos...

 

The finished spirkiting plank looked as thus:

The plank was fairly flexible but I still had to do a combination of clamping to the bulkheads and wedges to push it flush with the waterway.

I did both spirkiting planks (it was hard to get a perfect joint where the 2 planks met at an angle in the point of the bow).  Then on to the black strake, which was surprisingly a lot harder.

 

I first made a single long plank, bow to stern, filed out the requisite scuppers, did a dry run clamping, and sweated over the ends.  Since the front of the strake fits into the very shallow bow rabbit and the stern end has to be filed to match the fashion piece curve you have very little leeway getting the length wrong.  I thought I had it fitted perfect.  Actually, I think I did have it fitted perfect.  Then I added glue to the back of the strake and clamped it in place starting from the bow --> sternward.  And found the stern end of the strake was now too long.  I frantically tried to file the end of the strake a little shorter before it dried, but then I worried I hadn't seated the bow end into the rabbit enough.  So I removed the whole plank to do over, scraped off the glue, and when I re-fit it - it was now too short.  

 

My guess is the water in the glue was enough to swell the wood and make it temporarily longer.

 

Robert Hunt's AVS practicum recommends adding this strake in sections; per his directions most planking would be a scale 4" to 6" in length.  So I followed that advice and split the black strake into 3 pieces.  Way better to work with!  I made each joint a 45 degree scarf, not that it can be really seen, and edged with pencil for caulking.  And I managed to re-use my original plank for 2/3 of it.

 

Front

Middle

and Stern.  This was try #3 but I'm happy with the fashion piece junction.

Presently the middle starboard section is drying.  I noticed an issue - my last gunport was made to low.  The bottom of the gunport should be level with the top of the spirkiting strake; as you can see in this picture the red file handle, which is ontop of the spirkiting plank, shows I messed up measuring somewhere.  I'll have to add some planking above the gunport too so it can be shifted upwards.

 

And thats it for tonight.  Thanks for reading

 

Cisco

 

 

 

[CiscoH]

Happy Saturday everyone!  It got cold here last week, in the 40s during the day, below freezing at night.  And a week ago it was in the 60s.  Kids are behaving, wife is listening to a book on tape, time for an update.

 

Thinking about what people post, for me, a complete novice, the best content is a detailed "how I did this."  The more detail the better.  Thats what I've been focusing on showing in my buildlog.  I also like hand tools.  Along those lines today's post was influenced by the excellent DVD Fundamentals of Inlay by Steve Latta, through Lie Nielsen Toolworks.  Mr Latta demos how he creates stringing in whatever sizes he wants with mostly hand tools and i found it very relevant to creating planking if one doesn't have a mini tablesaw or thickness sander.

 

Presently I am putting on the inner bulwark planking above the spirkiting plank.  To create these planks, which are supposed to be 1/8" wide and 2/64" thick I first cut some strips from the holly stock on my bandsaw about 3/64" thick.  I then brought it down to thickness with a scraper held a little sideways to bridge any waviness from the bandsaw blade.

Then I had to cut the strip into pieces 1/8" wide which I did on my newly constructed cutting board, copied directly from Steve Latta's video.  Its very basic; a 3/4" MDF board nailed a piece of scrap wood in a T shape.  The top of the T sticks up about 1/16" to provide a lip to push the stock against.

 

To cut the stock I had been using my Stanley marking gauge with a nail as a cutter filed into a half round blade.  Recently I purchased a Lee Valley cutter which is a beautiful brass and metal tool.  It comes with a triangular blade already sharpened.  It looks impressive and weighty and made me feel more like a pro.  I tried both.

Short story shorter the Lee Valley blade mostly tore out the holly so I have to sharpen it and probably make it more of a round vs its present diamond shape.  Ironic a sharpened nail in a piece of wood works the best.

Below I am cutting the stock.  Usually I use my left hand to push the stock against the fence but in this shot my left hand was holding the camera.  Taking several light passes works best.

And here's a bigger pic of the cutting board

To square the edges of the strips I tried various jigs and upside down handplanes.  Eventually I decided the easiest way was to bend the strips some while sanding, which kept them at a right angle.

Then cut the strips to length, relieve the back edges with a 200 sanding stick, rub pencil along the bottom edge, and glue them in place.  I am still using white (possibly yellow, it doesnt say) Gorilla Glue.  Regular clothes pins work well in this area for clamping.

And here she is now, finishing the 3rd layer of bulwarks planking on the starboard side.

And here she is at present.  Next up is the upper bulwark plank that will form the top of the gunports.

Next I plan to scrape the bulwarks even (I met Toni Levine at a class this year and she said with Holly sanding is a great way to spread graphite dust that can't be removed).

 

And thats it for now.  

 

Thanks for reading; Cisco

 

 

 

[Dave_E]

Nice work Cisco, enjoy watching your progress! 👍😀

[CiscoH]

Good evening Modelers;

 

A shorter update today.  I have been filling in the port inner bulwark planking and the outer sheer strake and cutting the gunports.  Of course its never that easy...

 

A few posts ago I decided to extend my fashion pieces so they ended further ventrally than the practicum called for.  This made the stern look more like the Model Shipways plan but it altered a lot of downstream items.  And it brought up an interesting fact pointed out by Allanyed on Cmm400's build; that the line of the deck did not necessarily follow the line of the exterior planking, and often didn't, and as a result the gunports often did not follow the line of the exterior planking either.  Which makes sense but i had never thought about it before.

 

The AVS is designed so the gunports do perfectly fit (without notching planks) into the interior and the exterior planking, I assume because its a beginner built and why make life unnecessarily difficult.  Unless you, speaking purely hypothetically, make your fashion piece longer and change the position of the wale and consequently everything above it.

 

To fix this problem I did a couple compromise solutions.  I made my gunports a little smaller than the plans, which had them at 3 x 1/8" planks (so 3/8") wide and high.  Mine are just a little less than 3 planks high, say 2 and 5/6 planks.  And for the sternmost gunport I ended up cutting into the spirkiting strake a little.  So my gunports are uneven on the bulwark side but fit nicely between the exterior black and sheer strake.   In the picture below you can see the notch in the sternward gunport spirkiting strake.  Technically this gunport is a little lower than the other 3 but I think once the cannons are in place no one except me and everyone I point it out to will notice. 

I don't know if I messed up or the kit has shortcomings (I assume it was me) but I also had to add some extra basswood filler planks at the top of the bulwark planking so my sheer strake had enough support.

I also got too enthusiastic with my scraper and overthinned my 3/64" thick sheer strake so had to glue another filler strip on the back to pad it out.  Luckily the AVS kit comes with some very thin walnut planking which worked great. 

 

And speaking of scrapers, in my last post I said I would scrape the exterior planking.  Scraping did not work; I ended up using a 220 sanding stick and it went fine.  So far no embedded graphite that I can see.

Those of you following this build may remember my new Veritas slicing gauge from last post where the factory supplied blade did not work atall.  I spent some time changing the single bevel point to a rounded double bevel and it works way way better now.   

And finally.  I bought Vol 1 and 2 of Grant Walker's Roger Collection of Dockyard Models from Dave B and they are great.  Lots of closeup shots of insane carvings, some endoscope interior shots, lots of history.  Great stuff, highly recommended.

 

And i have Rob Napier's new book on its way. 

 

Well time to get ready for Monday.  Thanks for reading, have a great night.

 

Cisco

 

 

 

[Cmm4000]

Hi Cisco, 

Curt (CMM4000) nice work (especially on the scale you are working at)! Looks like you are a tool geek like me and do other woodworking as well.

If you are already doing this I apologize, I have had good luck making mini scrapers from single edge razor blades. I clamp the blade in a vise and use an old screwdriver shaft to burnish the edge. They don't last super long but the blades are cheap. I used this on the deck of my Montanes sure beat all the sanding I would have to do.

Cheers!

Curt. 

[CiscoH]

Good Evening Model Shipworlders!

 

The holiday Time Suck has hit full force and I haven't gotten much done.  Last weekend I attended a social event for my wife's side of the family (they own, of all things, a tugboat company) at the Corinthian Yacht Club in Philadelphia.  There were a lot of really cool half hull models:

And in the buffet room the 2 below models.  They even had partial outer layers of planking; the top one at each end and the bottom one in the middle.  No placards identifying the models, unfortunately.  I wondered if they were wooden half hull models of metal ships? 

On my AVS I finished adding the sheer strakes and cut the gunports with an xacto blade, then various sticks with 220 sandpaper stuck on with double sided tape, and squared the corners with needle files.  They are not all the same size or width but its close and I don't think its too noticeable.

My past measurement sins have come back to haunt me.  The upper inner bulwark planking is supposed to be even with the sheer strake.  It almost is.  After all the sanding and leveling has been done in preparation for the main rail the port planking is pretty even and about the size it supposed to be.  The starboard sheer strake ended up a little fat above the first gunport and the corresponding upper bulwark plank a little thin.  Again, no one but me will ever notice.

Next step is finishing the poop planking (I assume its the poop, since its above the tiny quarterdeck) and making the main rail.  I plan to scarf the main rail like I did the waterways.  This joint will really show so no excuses.

 

Currently I am working my way through Grant Walker's Rogers Collection Vol 2.  Amazing pictures and a little more relatable than Vol 1 for me as these are models I could, in theory, attempt to build some day.   

I helped out Santa and ordered some presents for myself-

and Rob Napier's new book which I have shown amazing self control and will not start until I'm finished the above Roger's book:

and finally a picture of me and family.

I don't know where all that white in my beard came from.   It sure wasn't there last year.

 

Happy Holidays!   till next year

 

cisco

 

 

 

[mikiek]

If that block plane is the little mini one they are great. One my most useful tools.

[glbarlow]

 My Veritas mini-chisels are now likely my most used tools, for a lot more than just being a chisel. 
 

You’re doing a great job with your AVS, all that learning will serve you well on future models. First rule of clamps, when you think you have enough, buy more clamps. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by glbarlow

[CiscoH]

Managing to sneak in one more update before the new year.  Today its all about the cap rails.

 

The kit comes with single piece walnut cap rails, one for each side.  I am replacing everything with holly which has its quirks as I'm learning.  Its a hard wood that tends towards being both crumbly and liking to split, so trimming with a blade must be done carefully.  Personally I prefer the look of several planks versus one unnaturally long unbroken rail.  Keeping in mind the planks shouldn't exceed 6" in length, the width of my available holly stock,  how much do I want to risk on redo's,  etc, I settled on a cap rail with 2 scarf joints.   Exactly the same as the waterway but unable to be hidden.

 

I had some practice on the waterway scarfs which was helpful.  My main takeaway for before was paper templates didn't work well for me for the curved sections.  Each time I found my fitted scarfs led to a curved section that didn't curve quite enough.  And when I adjusted (trimmed in tiny increments) the scarfs the section now wouldn't tightly conform to the curved bulkhead.  So here I went with using excessively wide stock that I would trim back once it was glued in place. 

 

But first I had a complete brainlock and could not figure out how I had made the scarfs.  Every drawing I did looked wrong.  Then luckily I remembered someone had posted a picture and after some searching and with absolutely no permission I stole this post from PRS in his excellent Cheerful build:

That got me back on track and I made the first section of cap rail running from the quarterdeck forward.  After making the hooked scarf I traced in onto the second piece.

It took some adjusting to get the joints centered on the bulkheads so that when the edges get sanded back they look symmetric.  After making all 3 pieces I glued the first section in place, waited until it was dry and then added the middle section, using graphite, holly powder, and yellow glue to outline and fill the scarf joint same as before.  Below is the final dry fit.

Despite being careful I still had to adjust the second and third pieces a little.  Leaving them fat was a lifesaver.  I also found it helpful to extend the lines some. It made it easier to sight once the joint was almost home.  I took the wood away until the pencil line was just barely visible.

Next photo is after all 3 pieces have dried and most of the glue squeeze-out removed.  not real pretty.

But once I trimmed back the rail to close to final dimensions its much improved.

Still more trimming left but you can see the shape emerging and I am happy with my scarfs.  Now I have to make the other side symmetric AND reverse the joints.

 

Finally, I declared it a long overdue sharpening day.  Got out my waterstones and flattened the backs and honed the Veritas minichisels, which took hardly any time they are so small.  Also rehoned the 2 bigger chisels I use most and following Cmm4000's advice I turned one of my razorblades into a scraper and it works great. 

 

Thats it for today.  Hope everyone has a great New Years!

 

Cisco

 

[captain_hook]

You‘re making good progress. As you use a lot of holly for planking I hope you don’t mind me asking - are you going to partially paint the ship later or leave it natural?

[CiscoH]

I'm off work for a few days so I got some shipwork in today. 

 

Captain_Hook : I am planning on a natural holly-only model.  I might paint some parts black, like the strakes, but for now I want it all-white.  I even have been using water based polyurethane as my varnish, which doesn't yellow.  Due to holly being a bit weak and floppy I plan to use bleached maple dowels for the bowsprit and main mast.

 

Only 1 ship picture this post.  I roughed in all 3 starboard cap rail pieces.  The stem rail promised to be the toughest to fit so I glued it in first.  The other 2 pieces are fitted but since on the port side there was a bit of adjustment needed I left them fat.  Below you can see my fitting process- first a rough outline in yellow paper which I used mainly to plan out the joints.  I am unable to wrap my head around mirror images so despite having made 6 previous scarfs I still have to draw each one out.

I added the cap rail extensions onto the inner and outer bulwarks either side of the port quarterdeck/poop; they still need some trimming.

 

Here are a few pics of my workarea; I always find it interesting to see other people's workshops.  We have lived in this house for 8 years and after a brief discussion with the Admiral it was decided I would like to set up part of the basement as my work area.  There was a lot of work done that isn't apparent; I tore down the old drywall covered framing which had no insulation and rotting 2x4's set directly on the concrete slab, added 2" of XPS to the basement block walls before rebuilding the 2x4 framing with a base of pressure treated lumber.  This fixed the mold smell.  I tossed most of the flickery humming fluorescents the previous owners had put in and replaced them with lots of LED lights.  Then I pulled up the carpet over half my work area and replaced it with a big roll of vinyl flooring.  Good enough for now.

Heres the long shot.  the work area shares space with my bike trainer, beer making paraphernalia, and a family heirloom crib my mother gave me which I don't know what to do with.

Thats it!

 

Cisco

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by CiscoH

[CiscoH]

Good Evening Shipworlders!  My almost neighbor Jason (JLong) posting got me motivated to bring my log up to date.  Hobby peer pressure, I guess.

 

My main problem to solve this post was how to make the fore end of the quarterdeck railing look to my satisfaction.  The plans show the outside and inside bulwark planking just ending with the cut ends of the boards, which I assume is how it was actually done.  This shows end grain wood which my obsessive brain was having a lot of trouble with.  So I came up with a plan to not show any endgrain that worked very well.  More importantly it was pretty easy so a good skill to store away.

 

The below doodle shows what I tried to do.  I was drawing as if the viewer was standing above the ship.  First i trimmed the outboard and inboard Qdeck planking so they were about a 45 degree angle to the bulwark.  Then i made an oversize wedge to fit this space.  I found that making a small wedge was almost impossible to fit well, but a big wedge was much easier.  I penciled the edges, which i wanted to show, and glued the wedges in place.  Once the glue dried I trimmed most of the excess with a chisel, then used a 220 sanding stick to sneak up.  

Here's the starbaord side before glueup.  My camera does an excellent job focusing on whatever I'm not trying to take a pic of, sorry about that.

Its a funky piece to clamp; rubber bands worked best for me.  the oversize wedge is much clearer here.  I even made the grain of the wedge follow the grain of the planking so there's no crossgrain conflict.  Totally unnecessary at this scale but satisfying.

Once dry I glued on the qrtdeck caprail and trimmed down the edges.

And here she is with both caprails on.  The port side still needs to be trimmed down.  And I included the Veritas miniplane because I have been using it constantly.  A great tool.  I just wish it had a tighter mouth like its big brothers...

Next up is the Taffrail, hopefully not too exciting.  Then, planking the lower hull.  Way more exciting.

 

Thank you for all who have Liked my log.  It really helps knowing others who share this problem are watching, sympathizing, and not being too critical.

 

Have a great night

 

Cisco 

[CiscoH]

Good evening fellow shipbuilders!  I have been at an impasse for several weeks- paralysis by analysis- over the size and placement of the garboard strake in my second planking.  But first I had to divide the hull into 3 planking zones of aprox equal size, as per the plans.  I have seen many different iterations of marking the hull; string, pencil, various tapes, or simply winging it.  I settled on using a thin strip of bluetape.  I cut it as in the following pic, using my fingers as a fence, which if you use the factory outside of the strip as your line works well.  The cut side of the strip was too wavy no matter how careful I was.

The bluetape sticks pretty well and is easy to see.  This was the first time I'd tried fairing a planking line; It was cool how a straight line from the side had a lot of points and bumps looking at it from the stem.  In the below pic I am using the top of the tape as my edge, not the bottom.

Adjustment was easy; I slid a scalpel blade underneath the tape and gently edged it up or down.  It took a few tweaks to look good from all angles; its also pretty easy to overthink it and keep adjusting.  After a while I had to force myself to stop fixing it.

And then the dreaded garboard strake.  According to the Model Shipway's directions the lower belt is divided into 3 planks.  The garboard is supposed to be wider than the rest of the hull planks, but then I got confused.  Some of what I've read (yellow cover planking booklet by Model Shipways) say the bottom 2 planks are significantly wider than the rest.  Somewhere else I read only the garboard is wider.  Some sources have the garboard shaped fishlike, the plans make it look the same width the length of the ship, I was getting deluged by too much information.

 

So in the end I made it one long plank, narrowing at the stem so the tip doesn't push upwards, and about 1.25 "standard" planking widths wide the rest of the ship.  I want to put in separate planks in each row but figuring out a planking arrangement became too much so I did one long plank.  I will probably score horizontal lines to simulate separate planks. 

 

In hindsight 2 layers of planking is more of a pain than I thought it'd be.  You lose the convenient bulwarks to clamp to, and since I use yellow glue not superglue I had to figure out a clamp strategy.  The first layer had filled the convenient keel rabbit, so I tried cutting a new rabbit into the keel/underplanking junction with mixed results.  Won't do that again; easier to butt joint the second layer to the keel.  As I've done in the past I used brass pins and wedges to keep the garboard tight to the keel.  The holes will be covered by the next row.

 

I prebent the garboard by soaking the end and clamping the tip diagonally around a dowel.  This formed a nice curve that was mostly trimmed away, but the tip fit perfect.  Aggressive clamping to push the tip into the stem in the past led to dents in the wood so this worked a lot better.  The second twist about 2/3 back was easier; wet the plank and clamp it in place without glue for the night.

 

And here is the garboard in its final test clamp, no glue yet.  Of course once I added glue the clothespins completely changed their character and started slipping off and I couldn't find all the wedges and I decided maybe try this other clamp, but where? did I put it, etc, and it didn't go quite as smooth as I planned, but thats usually what happens.

Thats it for tonite.  I hope this first plank is the worst and rest go a little easier. 

 

thanks for reading and have a great evening

 

cisco

[Dave_E]

Hey Cisco,

 

I love your description of not making progress. 😆 Your work is outstanding, looking good! 👍

[mikiek]

Hey Cisco - looks like you are already committed to your process for this build. For future reference, the garboard placement is critical. It is always the first strake I try to lay. Frankly, it doesn't matter much whether it is a wider plank than the rest. The important thought is to get it laid correctly. The upper edge should be perfectly horizontal, meaning the strake above it should need almost no shaping, bending or whatever.

 

Once you get 1-2 strakes laid above your garboard, then figure out your bands. You can do a lot of math to calculate them or just use some proportional dividers to make the process much easier. I use that technique for all planking.

 

This link post 244 will give you a tutorial. If it works for you great. It may seem a little overwhelming at first (and of course it requires another expenditure for the dividers) but it is almost foolproof as you get down to the last 2-3 strakes to be laid.

[JLong]

Cisco, this is where the fun begins. I tried to use the lumber provided from MSW to build the planking bands, but they didn't lay well as described in the yellow book for me. I like your tape method, actually.

The garboard strake is just ''wider'', typically 1.5x a regular plank. The rest above the garboard can be regular width.  Your approach of using one long plank, wetting it and clamping it to shape, then cutting the butts in after it's glued for the appearance is exactly what I did too. Just don't cut all the way through, or the plank may pop out.  How are you going to determine the plank butt separation?  The yellow book has a nice set of rules to go by, but I had to modify a lot to make them ''work''.

 

You've got a fine model going. keep up the great work - it'll be in ship-shape in no time 😉

 

- Jason -

[CiscoH]

Good Day-After-St Patrick's-Day-Afternoon Model Shipworlders.  Wife is downstate working, kids are presently quiet, time for an update.  I got exactly nothing accomplished on my hull BUT I did a lot of thinking.

 

mikiek- I followed (some) of your advice for the garboard strake.  After attaching it I sighted down the hull and trimmed the stem portion some where it raised up, aiming for a mostly straight run.  I had read about proportional dividers but I was worried they wouldn't work well on curved surfaces.  So I am sticking with paper tick strips; always reliable on a curve and immediately either lost or mixed with 15 other strips so you can't tell which one you were just using.

 

jason- I made the garboard about 1.25-1.5x  my regular plank width.  I may make the next plank up a little wider than the rest; sometimes what I plan doesn't survive contact with the enemy.  Your question about plank butt separation - see long rambling discourse below- is why I haven't added a single plank to my AVS last 2 weeks.

 

So planking and butt separation.  I didn't understand any of it and had to do several searches, downloads, and looking in my library of books stacked on my office floor.  I also discovered that many ships had hull planking plans which were very helpful.  Chuck's Cheerful has one, and I looked over Speedwells since it came as a fold out with one of the books.  A couple things emerged from my podering:

 

1) Although there is crossover, most of the plank butt separation rules seem to be for planking the deck, not the hull.  The diagrams imply evenly spaced deck beams with wide spaces in between.  Unless you want your deck planking to end in-between beams all your butt joints have to be over one these deck beams.  This provides some design constraint. 

But the hull is almost solid wood; so if you wanted to you could have almost any length plank and have a frame member to attach it to.  Presumably to keep enterprising shipwrights from entirely planking ships with 1 foot offcuts, rules existed dictating butt spacing for the hull, determined by strength, available stock, and insurance companies.

 

2) Whichever hull Butt pattern you are using seems to depend on 2 factors.  One is how many butt joints each line of planking can have.   I called these Station Lines (what would be the deck beams if you were planking the deck; a lot of diagrams call the longest plank length L and divide it into 4 or 5 sections, each of those sections is what I am calling station lines). 

The second is Butt Spacing- how many unbroken planks (looking vertically) there are between butt joints on the same frame member.  Far as I can tell 3 Butt means 3 unbroken planks, 4 Butt means 4 unbroken planks.  I don't know if theres a 5 Butt; I found a 2 Butt plan by Katsumoto which was presumably for the deck not hull.

You can designate how long the next plank will be once you figure out the system; one I found worked out to 5-2-4-1-3 for a 4 butt with 5 station lines; I found a 3 butt with 4 station lines that came out as 4-3-1-2.

 

Then looking at Cheerful's planking plan (thank you Chuck) its a pretty simple 3 Butt 1-2-3-4 pattern.  Ultimately I decided to try and use his plan.  After trying to mark butt joints on my AVS sheer plan I concluded it was too busy a picture and instead constructed my own crude planking plan, similar to Speedwells.  In these diagrams all the planks are made about the same width so you can focus on just the butt joints.

Like Cheerful's plan I divided my AVS into 8 sections (7 station lines).   Cheeful's butt lines correspond with the fore edge of each gunport.  The butt lines extended vertically into the gunport planking as well, and I had earlier already arbitrarily made 2 butt joints in my black strake.  The front butt joint was perfectly aligned with the fore edge of the AVS's front gunport (luck; I didn't plan it) but the aft joint was too far forward by a small margin.  I'm not remaking the black strake at this stage of the game so my station lines at the stern end are not perfectly equal.  But I'll take it.

 

Here's version one of my planking plan

Measuring at the stem I felt a stealer would help which was easy to copy from Cheerful.  Then I got into all sorts of problems with the stern.  The original plans for the AVS show 2 stern stealers but after measuring I felt one would work.   Originally I placed the foremost portion of the stealer on a butt joint, but this made the next lower plank and the garboard only had 2 full boards between butt joints instead of 3.  See the above picture.  This bugged me too much to accept and Cheerful doesn't have any stern stealers so i couldn't cheat and copy my way out.

 

Finally I realized that stealers start inbetween station lines and don't line up with the butt joints.  So you can ignore them in terms of butt joint placement.  I shifted my stern stealer backwards to halfway between station lines; i could also have moved it forward a 1/2 station line (dotted extension line on the below plan).

And finally I drew my station lines (dark pencil) onto the AVS' hull.  The faint lines are the actual bulwarks.

That was a ton of work for no actual planking being done.  Now I have a good idea of planking width and butt joint placement and I will never do another model without a planking diagram made up.

 

Next week I hope to present some Actual Planking!

 

thanks for reading

 

Cisco

Edited March 27, 2023 by CiscoH

[JLong]

Nice work on the planning, Cisco!  I spent a similar amount of time preparing mine.

From that yellow planking book from MS, it can get complicated with rules, lengths, size, etc.  I think each modeler's approach to planking is interesting and unique. I like how you penciled the layout on hull, before laying any planks. Smart!

 

Jason

[aliluke]

Hi Cisco

Nice work all round on your AVS. It brings back memories as I built the same kit years ago. Some differences though...

 

I used Bob Hunt's practicum which was really good especially for the rigging which I'd never done before. I have no idea if you can still get that.

I didn't care much about the second planking as I was always going to paint the hull.

I replaced all the kit rope with Morope and all the blocks with Warner Woods West. Both were vastly superior to the kit offerings back then which were complete rubbish. Both Morope and Warner don't exist anymore but you have got Syren Models now which are even better.

I also replaced the deck planking which has now weathered off to a really nice tone but I can't remember what timber I used - holly? The upper deck is a New Zealand timber - matai - which I cut from a veneer sample that I had at the time.

I kit bashed a few other bits too - particularly the deck fittings.

 

There are photos of my build here on MSW but no log as such.

 

AVS builds into a spectacular model with its long bowsprit and raked mast. Uncased, it still gathers dust in our dining room but I give it a clean every now and then.

 

I will follow your progress but my hazy memory probably won't be of much use to you.

 

Cheers,

A

 

 

[shipmodel]

Hi Cisco - 

 

I'm really enjoying reading your build log.  I applaud all your work climbing up the learning curve of hull planking.  Making a complete planking diagram is something I never attempted, and yours is quite well done.  As you said, you now have a much better understanding of plank widths and butt spacing.

 

However, since this is your first shot at complicated planking, I think you may have set up a more difficult task for yourself than necessary.

I hope you don't mind if I offer some practical advice from 35 years of doing this.

 

The problem, based on my experience, is that your stealer at the stern and the drop plank (stealer) at the bow come too early in the process.  A stealer doesn't just compensate for the curve of the hull, it allows the model shipwright to adjust the run of the planks to straighten them out as the hull closes up.  Your planking plan has the drop plank being the first plank that you install under the wale.  Whether this is the first plank or the last that you put on, it is going to be hard to adjust easily to get a nice look.

 

I find it easiest to plank up from the garboard and down from the wale alternately.  Here is a hull that I did a while ago.  It has a similar shape to the hull of the AVS that you are doing. At the bow the planking strake runs the full length of the hull, but the planks are tapered to about 2/3 of the standard plank width when they reach the  stem rabbet.  After each plank is installed the edge is eyeballed and straightened, if necessary, with a sharp edged file.  It is also shaped to match its partner on the opposite side.

 

This photo is after 5 planks up and down. The remaining space is covered with lengths of translucent tape and the final plank shapes are drawn on, much as you have done on the solid hull.

1

The tape is transferred to planking wood and the shapes are cut out and fitted.  

2

At the stern the process is similar, but the planks up from the garboard are flared to fill the wider space at the sternpost.

3

As the hull closes up the remaining space becomes evident.  Tape is used again to draw in the final plank shapes.

4

Until the final plank can be cut, fitted and installed.

5

As I said, this is based on my experiences.  There are several other building methods that work equally well.  If mine is not to your liking, you can find excellent examples in many of the build logs on this site.

 

Whatever you do, best of success. 

 

Dan

   

 

 

[CiscoH]

Good Evening fellow builders!  The more I go to work the more I like model shipbuilding. 

 

And I'm hoping this update may push my log through to page 4.  When you're almost to the end of the page it takes a while to scroll down.

 

Aliluke- I went over your log many times before choosing to do my AVS.  Your version is beautiful!  As I recall you lost the text in the Great Crash of '13 and re-posted pics to MSW Take 2.  I built Model Shipway's 18th century longboat and thought the blocks and rope the kit provided were ok, once I filed the edges of the blocks round instead of leaving them square.  For this endevour I hope to push it up a notch and get aftermarket rope from Chuck or Ropes of Scale.  Or better yet make my own!  I took an Admiralty course with Greg, Chuck, and Dave last year on ropemaking.  Have to at least try... but thats going to be future Cisco's problem.   Ditto for the blocks.

 

Dan I appreciate you checking in on my progress.  I messaged you a while ago about using bone and you were very helpful; I am still planning on using some bone in this build for the deck furniture.  Thats another learning curve to struggle through; I'm not up to trying bone planking yet.  Thank you for your planking pic tutorial- as you suggested I am planning on doing the bottom belt first, then the top, then fill in the middle.  I agree it might be easier to put in stealers to shift planking to follow a straight line, versus my plan of shifting planking to make the stealers fit.   For now I'm following my current drawing, but based on how that goes I may alter the other side.

By the way that last plank you made that fits over the stealer, in your last picture- that is impressive Sir.  Fitting a straight plank on 2 sides without big gaps gives me fits, nevermind one with a dogleg.

 

And this weeks progress- 3 whole rows of planking and hardly any pondering.

 

I still like my wedges to push planks snug.  The pins that came with the kit are handy as stops for the wedges, as long as they are pushed through planking into a bulwark.  Otherwise they bend sideways and the wedges pop out which is frustrating.  And so far the DeWalt clamps reach.  These planks I have been starting out with wider stock and shaving them down to a little fat, then bending with both a travel iron and a hairdryer, then final fitting on the bottom edge with files, then bring to final width with my Veritas MiniPlane. 

I realize the above pic looks like big gaps at the stern but thats ok.  One of those planks is a stealer which isn't glued in, on the other most of it will be trimmed off.

In the above pic the plank above the stealer was hard to clamp.  None of the wedges wanted to stay put and kept popping off, I think because the plank had a twist that wasn't perfectly bent, so when I clamped one end it levered the other end just enough.  You can see my pins but only 1 wedge (under the dewalt clamp).  Still, it eventually worked.

 

Here's the current state with 3 of the 4 rows of planks put in the bottom belt.  The final layer of this belt will come up to the top of the blue tape.  So far it looks like the plan I came up with last post, and my but joints are where I wanted/drew them.

Thats all the planking excitement for this week. 

 

I got 2 books last month (I have to strictly ration myself otherwise the house would be full of books and no room for people).  Building the Wooden Fighting Ship is pretty good, lots of pictures, I learned a lot.  Naval Warfare is also good, although most of the book is really about the advent of steam power and the transition from wooden to metal hulls.   So the cover is a bit deceiving.

 

 

Ok my wife's cats are galloping through my office, knocking over stacks of books and manacing my Legos so its time to go shoo them out.  Until next time have a great evening!

 

Cisco

[Paul Le Wol]

Hi Cisco, your planking is looking great, and especially great where it hits the stem👍

[CiscoH]

thanks Paul.  the pin and wedge system shown above works better for me than anything else i’ve tried. 

 

also still not to page 4 drat it all

Edited April 5, 2023 by CiscoH