SS Blagoev ex-Songa 1921 by Valeriy V - scale 1:100 - Soviet Union

[Roger Pellett]

The main user of water from the sea chest is of course the condenser for the main engine.  Period photos and drawings for various ships and the condenser for the 1896 main engine of the historic Steamship SS Meteor have the condenser located on the engine’s port side.  This means that the hotwell, air pump, and feed pump would also be located on the port side.  The air pump and often the feed pump were driven by a link to the engine crosshead.  The sea chest would be located on the same side of the vessel as the condenser to minimize the run of of piping to it.  The engineer controlled the engine while standing on the operating platform that was located on the side opposite the condenser as the shaft and linkage for controlling the engine’s rotation had to be located on the side opposite the linkage for the air pump.

 

The direction of rotation of the propeller was a function of valve timing, nothing more.  The engine was reversed via a linkage that changed the valve timing.  A major advantage of the triple expansion marine engine was that it turned slow enough to be connected directly to the propeller.  Expensive, difficult to manufacture gearing was was not required.

 

I see no reason why the sea chest could not be located on the starboard side, provided the engine’s condenser and pumps were located on that side also.  A twin screw vessel would have sea chests on both sides with a “port condenser engine and a starboard condenser engine.”  The operating platform would then be located between the two engines.

 

Roger

[Ras Ambrioso]

Happy to see you starting another masterpiece. I used the half hull method on Amapá. Will follow your progress.

[Valeriy V]

 

Thanks to everyone who expressed their thoughts about the Kingston box! Now I have plenty to choose from for my grille installation option.

  I continue to work on the Blagoev hull. I'm starting to lay down the deck sheets.

[Valeriy V]

Installation and soldering of sheets to bulwarks and bulkheads.

[IronShips]

 

 

Hello all,

 

Truly a wealth of experience and knowledge reflected by the many valuable comments posted here! Thank you all for contributing! At least for me it is a interesting read, and I hope for Valeriy too.

 

Javelin has correctly explained in greater detail the wheel effect, and therefore the reason why I believe the starboard side could have been the preferred location for a single-side sea chest installation.

 

I wouldn‘t rule out that ship designers have taken the preferred side going alongside into consideration when deciding on the location for a sea chest, as it is done for other equipment too.

 

It is also correct that a berth is usually allocated by the harbour master, however, it is usually at the discretion of the Captain or the pilot in which direction the ship shall be moored. Cargo operation, wind, currents, navigational restrictions, the wheel effect, the ability to leave port quickly etc. are factors in this decission making process.

 

With certainty, I can say that sea chests on commercial ships were not and are not to be fitted in the area of a cargo hold, a bunker or a tank. It is the design intend to keep the engine and boiler compartments compact. A sea chest location remote from the engine room would not have been practical and perhaps not even serviceable. In this regard, commercial ships cannot be compared with warships.

 

As mentioned by Roger Pellett, it is surely correct that sea chests are kept close to the condenser(s) as surely one of (if not the) main consumer of seawater onboard the ship.

 

However, a ships propeller is clearly designed for a forward direction, which is the more efficient direction of the propeller. Standard is a clock-wise, or right hand direction (looking at the propeller from the aft of the ship).

 

If a propeller can be directly fitted to the engine shaft without gearbox is a matter of engine rpm’s, possible propeller size and a few other factors.

However, a direct installation was the case with most steam engines as well as it is the case with large commercial ships fittes out by slow-speed two stroke diesel engines nowadays.

It was therefore irrelevant if the design of a ship steam engine was a twin, a compound, a tripple or even quadrouble expansion engine.

Also steam engines have a preferred forward direction. This is usually the direction in which the crossheads push against the slideguides when going forward.

 

In the meantime, I have consulted the website of the Lloyds Register Foundation over the last couple of days, trying to find some drawings answering the matter  currently under discussion. (Information on SONGA can be found there too.)

 

All historical drawings of sea chests installations on single screw vessels I found on the website show starboard side installations. 

 

However, the drawing of UHENFELS Valeriy had published shows installation of the sea chest on port side.

 

Some correspondence published on the website dating back to the 1920s is suggesting that not all commercial ship at that time were fitted with sea chests. 

 

There is a drawing of the vessel ALIOTH built 1937 in Germany on the website, showing a detailed sea chest installation, upper and lower sea chest fitted on starboard side of the vessel plus a a side profile. 

As both drawings show the frame numbers it can be easily determined where in relation to the main engine installation the sea chest were fitted in the engine room of this vessel.

 

A seawater piping diagram of s similar sized commercial vessel of that period would probably answer many questions. Not sure if anyone can help here.

 

Best wishes,

 

Daniel

[Mirabell61]

Valeriy,

your deck plating in brass is super, good luck with the further soldering job, I know its not easy th keep the heat away from the wood

 

Nils

[KeithAug]

Sorry to be joining a little late Valeriy. I look forward to more posts.

[Valeriy V]

Thank you all for your attention to my topic!  

   The process of laying brass on the deck continues. Now on the forecastle.

[Valeriy V]

Brass blanks for the bulwark on the forecastle.

[Valeriy V]

The bulwark is welded from parts and its half is installed on the forecastle.

[Mirabell61]

nice work Valeriy

 

Nils

Edited November 22, 2023 by Mirabell61

[Javelin]

That's one very fantastic steel job! And at such a small scale! 👍

[wefalck]

I am jealous ... should do more brass work ... it looks so nice, solid and clean ...

[KeithAug]

1 hour ago, Valeriy V said:

The bulwark is welded from parts and its half is installed on the forecastle.

Valeriy - As Eberhard says - I must do more brass work  to develop my skills. Very inspiring. It would be good if you were able to supply more detail on your build / soldering sequence. I'm interested in how you make the later joints without unsoldering the earlier work?

 

Also it would be interesting to know why you chose brass for the deck planks rather than something else e.g. very thin birch ply or even card?

[Valeriy V]

1 hour ago, KeithAug said:

 It would be good if you were able to supply more detail on your build / soldering sequence. I'm interested in how you make the later joints without unsoldering the earlier work?

 

Keith!

Soldering such large sheets of brass is quite boring and monotonous. 

You can solder them in sequence one after another. The brass sheets are massive and do not have time to warm up enough for the previous seam to fall apart from overheating.

 

1 hour ago, KeithAug said:

Also it would be interesting to know why you chose brass for the deck planks rather than something else e.g. very thin birch ply or even card?

Everything is very simple here. The deck metal sheets were laid overlapping. Therefore, I need to show on the model steps with a height of approximately 0.2-0.3 mm.
Cardboard does not have the properties I need for modeling. Therefore I don't consider it as useful material.
Wood veneer with a thickness of 0.2-0.3 mm behaves like a sheet of paper. It has no rigidity and is very sensitive to changes in humidity.  

 

[wefalck]

To this one could add, that both, wood and cardboard, need a lot of surface treatment to look smooth like the original metal. For this reason I resorted to bakelite paper, which is available down to 0.2 mm thickness.

Edited November 22, 2023 by wefalck

[yvesvidal]

This is going to be one solid model. I love how you are approaching the construction of the deck.

 

Yves

[KeithAug]

6 hours ago, KeithAug said:

It would be good if you were able to supply more detail on your build / soldering sequence.

Sorry Valeriy I should have been clearer. I was referring to the bulwark not the deck plates.

 

4 hours ago, wefalck said:

need a lot of surface treatment to look smooth like the original metal.

Eberhard I agree but plasticard is always an option. Also I have found paint finishes on brass to be a bit problematic as in my experience the brsss doesn't take the paint evenly and when dry flaking tends to be a problem. It may be that I haven't prepared the surface correctly.

[wefalck]

Museums and other high-end customers may not like styrene, as it is prone to deterioration over time due to the outgassing of the softeners. That is a reason, why I use bakelite paper, there are no softeners inside.

 

[Valeriy V]

29 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

Sorry Valeriy I should have been clearer. I was referring to the bulwark not the deck plates.

Keith, еverything is simple there too.  
It is necessary to follow the principle of the order of soldering parts - from large parts to smaller ones. And then the larger parts do not have time to warm up by the time the small parts are already soldered.

[Valeriy V]

44 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

It may be that I haven't prepared the surface correctly.

Yes, Keith, this is the only and main mistake when painting brass.

The metal must be perfectly free of grease.
If the parts are small, then I clean them by dipping them briefly into a solution of nitric acid or for a longer period into the solution NaOH.

If the surface is large, then I use the method of painters in car repair shops - gasoline caloshes and a rubberized napkin.
All other solvents only spread the fat layer over the part but do not remove it.
I want to clarify that all this applies to the conditions in which I live.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by Valeriy V

[KeithAug]

37 minutes ago, Valeriy V said:

nitric acid or for a longer period into the solution NaOH.

Valeriy - thanks for the advice.

[KeithAug]

51 minutes ago, Valeriy V said:

of the order of soldering parts - from large parts to smaller ones.

Thanks again Valeriy. I sort of assumed you might be using different melting point solders and heat sinks - but your method is much easier.

[mikegr]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:22 AM, Mirabell61 said:

Many thanks for your kind advice Yaleriy,

 

Nils

I have worked with several automotive industry putties. There's a German company that makes a liquid easy to apply product like a toothpaste thick.

Easy to work with, zero shrinkage and smooth finish. Need good effort on sanding but grip is also great

[Roger Pellett]

Beautiful work as usual Valeriy!  

[Valeriy V]

12 hours ago, KeithAug said:

Thanks again Valeriy. I sort of assumed you might be using different melting point solders and heat sinks - but your method is much easier.

Keith, i'm happy to help!  

Yes, of course, the soldering method with solders of different melting temperatures is also good. I use it in rare cases when the main method does not help. And instead of a radiator, you can use an ordinary spring clamp that will secure the part from shifting.

[FriedClams]

Excellent progress, Valeriy.  An interesting discussion on "sea chests" also.

 

Gary

[Valeriy V]

Hi all!

I finished covering the deck with metal.

 

Forecastle.

[Valeriy V]

Spardek

[Valeriy V]

Poop.