Pulled the Trigger == Lathe coming

[kgstakes]

Well, for better or worse I pulled the trigger and bought a mini lathe.  I know lots of you have sherline lathes and they are a great lathe.  But for the money and what I believe I want to do, and the features that were offered and options available, I bought a new Taig lathe.

I took a long hard look at both machines and I picked the best one I thought would fit for what I wanted to do with a lathe.  I actually bought all the accessories that I wanted with the lathe and still came in under what a base model sherline lathe is with the same or close to the same options.  So, I guess money had something to do with the purchase as well.

 

I'm happy with the purchase, wife is good with the purchase (you know, always have to keep the banker happy), and I'll do a review on it after I get some turning under my belt.

 

Picture below only shows what is included in the package I bought.  The options I bought not shown in picture.

 

[Azzoun]

Hi, 

Congrats on the purchase!  Just curious, do you have any machining background?  If not, do you have a strategy for teaching yourself?   I ask because I own a lathe but have little experience.  

 

Joshua

Edited January 8 by Azzoun

[dvm27]

19 minutes ago, Azzoun said:

Hi, 

Congrats on the purchase!  Just curious, do you have any machining background?  If not, do you have a strategy for teaching yourself?   I ask because I own a lathe but have little experience.  

 

Joshua

 

For those inexperienced in using the lathe there is a series for beginners by You Tuber Blondihacks https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY67-4BrEae9Ad91LPRIhcLJM9fO-HJyN. While her series is concerned with metal work on the hobby lathe the techniques are applicable to wood as well. As machinists usually work to closer tolerances than woodworkers mastering these skills will probably improve your results in wood.

[kgstakes]

I’ve done some projects on a wood lathe years back and have done some work on my atlas craftsman lathe that needs a little tlc.   Other than that just s on some things my father in law told me course don’t remember what he said (he’s passed on now so hard to ask).  But I don’t see that I’ll have much trouble with it.  Just remember small machine light cuts, don’t take too heavy a cut and it’ll be fine.

 

i look forward to getting the taig lathe and the first thing I’ll do is lay everything out and figure out a design for a cabinet for it and build that then get to turning.

Edited January 8 by kgstakes

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Azzoun said:

Hi, 

Congrats on the purchase!  Just curious, do you have any machining background?  If not, do you have a strategy for teaching yourself?   I ask because I own a lathe but have little experience.  

 

Joshua

Being that a machinist's lathe is about the most versatile machine there is, there's a tremendous amount that can be learned about operating one. As a self-teaching lathe operator who has only scratched the surface of what can be known, the best advice anyone ever gave me about leaning to run my 12" Atlas-Craftsman lathe was to get a copy of The Manual of Lathe Operation & Machinists Tables published by the Atlas Press Co., maker of the Atlas-Craftsman lathes. It is not only specific to the Atlas-Craftsman lathes, but to all machinist's lathes in general and has all the information one could need. Fortunately, the 23rd Edition (which I think was the last) published in 1967 is available as a free PDF download from VintageMachinery.org. See: Atlas Press Co. - Publication Reprints - Manual of Lathe Operation & Machinists Tables (MOLO) 23rd Edition | VintageMachinery.org  Just below the lower left hand corner of th picture of the front of the book ("Publication Preview") is a link: "View PDF" in blue printing. Click on that and the whole book should come up on your screen. It may take a few seconds because it's a long 273 page download. Scroll down to read it. 

 

There are also some excellent U.S. military training manuals which are available as free PDF's you can google up. I found those very helpful because the military does an excellent job of teaching the average idiot like me who knows nothing about a subject how to do highly technical things. 

[kurtvd19]

I think you will be happy with the TAIG.  I had one for several years and learned to do a few things with it - I was happy.  A long bed Sherline became available for a very good price so I got it.  Soon learned that I didn't need the long bed unit.  A club member who had just purchased a short bed Sherline was telling everybody how unhappy he was that he spent all that money for the short bed Sherline.  I  overheard him and offered to swap him my long bed unit for his short bed unit and he was at my shop the next day.

So there I was with a Taig and a short bed Sherline.  I soon found myself using the Sherline exclusively and sold it to a fellow club member for a good price for both of us.  Sure enough I found myself missing the Taig as it was a lot easier to use in many cases.  The guy who bought it was in love with it so I stopped considering getting another Taig and learned to love the Sherline. 

I am sure you will enjoy using the Taig it will probably always be able to do more than you need or know how to do.

[Toolmaker]

This might be a useful link for Taig owners;

 

https://www.cartertools.com

[Twokidsnosleep]

Great news!!

I am sure it will be absolutely perfect for you, nothing at all wrong with Taig

My decision making was ease of ordering, model and speed of availability....ie the Sherline was on sale in Canada and in stock so SOLD!

Edited January 8 by Twokidsnosleep

[mtaylor]

Here's a couple of sites I have bookmarked with some basic knowledge on lathe and milling machines.....

 

https://www.littlemachineshop.com/Products/product_new.php   Click on learning center on this site.

 

https://www.mini-lathe.com/   This site has embedded links in the text.

 

[Twokidsnosleep]

Two favourite Youtube metal workers

 

Clickspring..he is making the scribe here. Highly recommend wasting some time watching him

 

Blondihacks...a Canadian female and does great projects. She makes brass boilers and such for trains and big stuff too

 

[wefalck]

I have been subscribed to both channesl for years ... 'clickspring' is a genius with handtools, particularly the file.

 

The Taig is sold in the UK/Europe under the name Peatool, btw., but https://www.cartertools.com is indeed a useful site and I got lots of ideas from it over the years though I don't have a Taig.

 

Although I was lucky to get some basic lathe instruction from an old mechanic, who ran the hobby-workshop (equipped with outdated toolroom machinery that the Swiss precision industry donated) at my university, it was not until many years later that I could afford my own lathe. I got myself various apprentice text books from the 1940s/50s (before CNC creeped in) to learn the basics, De Carlè's book (The Watchmaker's and Model Engineer's Lathe), as well as various historical mechanic's handbooks. The latter are good, because they contain useful ideas for manual lathe work and work-arounds that by today's mechanics (and H&S officers ...) may be snuffed upon or are considered inefficient (such as grinding your own HSS lathe-tools).

[kgstakes]

Well, after a snow storm and delays my lathe is here!!  All assembled and gave it a spin just to make sure everything worked correctly and made sure all belts were aligned.

Here is a picture of the Taig lathe.  I also bought the powerfeed, jacobs chuck (next size up 3/8 capacity) live center, 3 jaw chuck, collects and holder thingy, LOL don't know what it's called.  Anyway and then also purchased the tool rest (wood turning), extra belts, radius tool, compound top slide,  I think that was it.  This weekend I'll put everything out and post another picture.  May even turn something this weekend.

I do want to build a base for it with drawers for all the attachments and I need to put the on/off switch someplace more handy.  That's really my first project (after I mess with it a bit).

 

Edited January 18 by kgstakes

[kgstakes]

Here’s a picture of everything I purchased with my Taig lathe

 

Edited January 19 by kgstakes

[kgstakes]

Just messing with it seeing actually how small a piece I can do.  Dam good to me anyway.

 

[kgstakes]

Lathe "cabinet" "storage base" which ever you want to call it, I've finished building it now for some spar varnish on everything and reassemble.  After that maybe do some turning.

Enjoy the pictures.  I will post other pictures when all the finish work is done and reassembled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wefalck]

Neat self-contained unit!

 

Just a couple of observations based on 35+ years of experience using such small lathes:

 

- I think I would have fixed the lathe closer to the front edge, as you want to get really close to the work (wearing safety glasses !), when working on small parts.

 

- I run all my electrical equipment off momentary foot-switches; this allows me to interrupt the current just by lifting the foot - handy during normal operation and absolutely vital in an emergency.

 

[kgstakes]

I put the lathe set in about an inch from the hand wheels of the carriage and cross slide so when I carry it the hand wheels are not hitting me in the belly and no damage will happen when I store the machine.  I want the cabinet to get any damage that may happen before anything hits any part of the lathe.

 

a foot switch is a good idea and I’ll have to look into getting one.  Never thought about that, good safety feature when turning.
 

I’ll show a picture after I get it all finished and assembled that would show how close to the front everything actually is for operation.

[kgstakes]

Oh just a side note.  After building the cabinet (ash wood) the total weight is  approx 64 lbs.  course lathe weighs about 50 lbs (shipped) with motor and all accessories. 
 

Not bad to carry but wouldn’t want to go far with it.  That was another consideration I had was balance when carrying it.  Yes lathe is set back for damage control when carrying and also for balance when carrying it.

[kgstakes]

Lathe base/storage cabinet finished.  Nowheal up before doing any turning.

 

Enjoy the video

 

 

 

 

[kgstakes]

Been thinking,  I’ll probably be doing more wood turning on my lathe than metal but can you all look at the accessories I have and what else would you include for turning metal or wood?

 

 I’ll post picture here so you don’t have to go back and find it.

 

[Bob Cleek]

I'm not all that familiar with the Sherline lathes and I may be looking at some of these and not recognizing them, but, in no particular order, a quick offhand list would be:

 

A parting tool and tool holder for metal work. (It may be there with the cutting tools and I just don't see it.)

 

Set of suitably-sized center drill bits for metal turning. (Required if you are turning metal rod stock between head and tail stocks.)

 

A live tailstock center for metal work.

 

Sherline steady rest for wood and metal turning.

 

Buy or make (looks like an easy job) a longer wood turning tool rest. The Sherline one you have is rather short. You won't be able to turn anything longer than the tool rest you have there without moving the tool rest. Since it's mounted on your lathe cross-slide, it will be easy to move with your lead-screw handwheel, but still less accommodating than a longer tool rest. 

 

Alignment test bar ("test mandrel") for setting up concentricity of head and tail stocks.

 

Quick-change tool post for metal working.

 

Boring bar set and boring bar holder.

 

Suitable knurling tool(s)

 

A face plate and dogs.

 

An independent four-jaw chuck, 

 

Vamda=Lay Industries Sherline lathe duplicator if you plan to make multiple identical parts (chair legs, cannon, etc.) DUPLICATOR (vanda-layindustries.com)

 

A wood-turning chuck. (Jawed metal holding chucks are not intended for wood-turning and even in a tiny lathe like this one, can be dangerous if used to turn wood.) (Lots of cheap ones available from China.)

 

Wood-turning live center, spur driver and cup center. (You can't turn wood without them.)

 

A suitable dial test indicator and adjustable stand (It doesn't have to be a super-expensive one.)

 

Small Inside and outside calipers (for wood-turning measurements.)

 

Measuring calipers, dial or digital, your preference. (Vernier is fine, too, if you still have the eyesight for them. They are easy to use once you learn how to read the Vernier scale.) You don't have to spend and arm and a leg for the super-accurate ones. 

 

You may want to design and build a "backsplash" box with the ability to hook up a fairly powerful vacuum to it. This would be primarily for wood-turning, which generates a lot of dust and debris. If it can contain metal chips and especially "flying" cutting lubricants, so much the better. (Lathes generate a lot of mess.  )

 

As they so often say, it isn't the lathe that's expensive, it's the tooling you need to do anything with it!

 

[wefalck]

Most of my (miniature) model work is done with collets, but for larger and in particularly flat parts it is handy to have a three-jaw chuck with stepped (reversible) jaws. Are the jaws on the chuck above 'soft', i.e. can be machined?

 

Otherwise, I would add to the toolkit as (perceived) needs arise, even though that may delay your work temporarily. In this way, you are sure that you have what you need.

 

Roger mentioned a 'test-bar' above - beware they tend to be very expensive and I dare to say, not many people have one, me included ...

 

I don't remember the spindle thread on the Taig, but Sherline offer their chucks (good quality!) with various threads.

 

At some stage Taig offered their lathes with a spindle bored for horological WW-collets, which would have been my choice due to endless variety of spindle-tooling that is available for them. Makes holding of small parts simple and safe.

 

Edited February 2 by wefalck

[kgstakes]

In the picture see below I have some tooling some collets (which I was surprised that only one or two are completely open- can push material through headstock).  The long shiny rod at the bottom is supposed to be a live center (it works but not what I expected).  But yeah a longer tool rest would be very easy to build.  It mounts directly to the bed ways so you loosen a bolt and move then lock it down.  It’ll work not dissatisfied with any of the options just thought some….  Well, not what I was expecting.  (Even though I seen pictures before I bought them).

 

 The 3 jaw I believe they are soft jaws but if not I can get some.  Step jaw I like more than the single step on the taig 3 jaw chuck. 
 

all in all very happy with it so far and thank you for all your input.  Greatly appreciated.

 

[Bob Cleek]

CORRECTION: I mentioned a couple of Sherline items, such as a steady rest. I had "Sherline" in my head, but as it's actually a Taig lathe, I should have said "Taig" instead of "Sherline." Same difference. Obviously, if you any item, get one that fits your Taig lathe.

 

19 hours ago, wefalck said:

Roger mentioned a 'test-bar' above - beware they tend to be very expensive and I dare to say, not many people have one, me included ...

Eberhard is correct that a test bar can be very expensive, and this is quite true. They can be much less expensive if for use on small lathes. I'm not sure what size or style of spindle taper (if any) is on the Taig lathes, but smaller tapered test alignment bars (e.g. MT1) are going for as little as $40 new on eBay, (MT 1 Precision Parallel Test Bar for Lathe Machine Head Alignment | eBay) and, in any event, you can always easily make your own on an accurate lathe.  See: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, wefalck said:

Most of my (miniature) model work is done with collets, but for larger and in particularly flat parts it is handy to have a three-jaw chuck with stepped (reversible) jaws. Are the jaws on the chuck above 'soft', i.e. can be machined?

Yes, they apparently are. The Taig literature notes that the stock three-jaw self-centering chuck has soft jaws, and these jaws must be trued to the individual spindle before it can be used accurately. This task will require a properly sized boring bar and boring bar holder. See: http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/vault/Lathes/Taig/Manual/TAIG-Manual.html 

 

See also: 

 

 

 

In checking out this interesting information on the Taig lathes, I noticed in their catalog that they do have a long, extended woodturning tool rest with two "legs." I mentioned making a longer tool rest or finding an aftermarket one, but there's no need as Taig already offers one as a standard accessory. 

 

I also saw where Taig advertised their "one step jawed" three jaw self-centering chuck as good for use in wood turning. I presume this is because the shorter jaws protrude less from the face of the chuck. I certainly will not say I know more about this point than the manufacturer does, but I will say that while a "stepped-jaw" chuck can be used to hold wood for turning, any wood turning operation done anywhere in the vicinity of protruding spinning chuck jaws, while done by some on occasion, is in my opinion (and experience) a very risky operation and unnecessary when safer curved-jaw woodturning chucks are available. Much like an airplane propeller, when such jaws spin, they often become virtually invisible... until they hit something. The rounded "cupped jaws" of most wood turning chucks don't pose the same "invisible" risk. 

 

 

Safety lectures are probably about as welcome as somebody ringing your doorbell with a Bible in their hand. "Safety warnings" have become so ubiquitous today that many of us, me included, tend to ignore them. (Has anybody every really read all the safety instructions now posted on every ladder we buy?) However, in the spirit of "do what I say, not what I do," I feel obligated to offer a brief sermon reminding anyone who is not a trained and experienced machinist or woodturner that a lathe is an extremely dangerous machine. You won't see a lathe, metal or wood turning, often listed in "Top Ten" lists of "most dangerous machines" because statistics are kept on the basis of how many injuries are reported per type of machine. Consequently, machines like table and chain saws always top these lists because there are so many more of them in the hands of untrained non-occupational operators. Comparatively, there are relatively few lathes in circulation for a variety of reasons, not least of all their operational complexity and price. That said, in terms of the inherent danger of any given tool in the course of its ordinary operation, lathes are not only among the most dangerous of any stationary power tool, but also capable of causing far more catastrophic injuries than many other power tools. The lathe is uniquely dangerous because 1) Its operation requires considerable knowledge and training, 2) its operation involves close proximity of the operator's body parts with unshielded moving parts of the machine, 3) its operation poses a high risk of "throwing" loose material of all sizes at high velocities, 4) its operation poses a high risk of "grabbing" any loose material which comes in contact with moving parts and when this occurs, the lathe will with great speed and strength pull that material into the moving parts of the lathe, and 5) its operation often involves high speeds and always involves tremendous torque. Certainly, the magnitude of the injuries inherent in all lathe operations tends to vary to some extent with the size and power of the lathe involved, but even the dangers posed by so-called "mini lathes" are sufficient to frequently cause the same type and degree of injury as a large size lathe. (It won't matter to a hand coming in contact with a spinning chuck jaw whether it's a three-inch or a twelve-inch chuck. Neither will the size of the lathe matter to an eye punctured by a hot chip shot out of it.) No one should ever operate a lathe without being completely familiar with all the operational details of that particular lathe and knowing and faithfully observing all safety procedures attendant to the operations they perform on it. I know this probably sounds like a pedantic lecture, but in pursuit of the rather "safe" hobby of building miniature ships, I fear that some might fail to recognize that a "miniature" lathe is not a tool that poses miniature risks.   

 

 

top slide tapers

Edited February 3 by Bob Cleek

[wefalck]

Talking about parting-off: our small lathes are just not rigid and stiff enough for stress-free parting-off of anything say above 6 mm diameter, even when you use so-called parting knives. What I do is that I first cut a narrow groove and then complete the parting-off with a fret- or hacksaw while the machine is running at very slow speed.

 

One has to do this very cautiously, particularly when the part is held in a jaw-chuck, and make sure to keep the head/face out of the line of cutting in case there is a snag or backlash.

 

My most used cutting tool is an HSS-toolbit that is ground like a grooving bit with straight cutting face of 0.4 mm width at the front. This allows me to machine most small parts without changing the tool and therefore loosing measures. For brass the bit has zero top-rake, for steel, aluminium and acrylics around 3°.

 

Grinding HSS-toolbits is quite easy and a bench-grinder is an important machine in the workshop.

 

Another accessory I find most useful and would not be without is a quick-change toolpost (QCTP) with a good supply of inserts. This allows to pre-set toolheight without fuss and as name says to quickly change between different tools without having to reset the tools every time. Small enough QCTPs are not so easy to find, but they do pop up as aftermarket products on ebay etc. from time to time.

 

In fact, there are designs for QCTPs that can be machined on the lathe itself.

 

 

 

 

[Toolmaker]

A simple method of aligning the tailstock is to;

place a piece of stock bar between chuck and tailstock centre

take a small cut on the diameter of the stock bar at the headstock end

measure diameter and set your cross slide dial to zero at depth of cut position

repeat the same depth of cut at the tailstock end of the bar and measure the diameter 

if they are the same you are good to go. If they are different you need to move the tailstock by half the difference in diameter (towards you if the diameter is bigger at the tailstock end) and then repeat the process until they measure the same.

Do this with the longest length you can fit between headstock and tailstock and you should be correct with the tailstock at any position along the bed. If parallel cutting varies when you move the tailstock, then the lathe bed is twisted. That can often be corrected by jacking the feet on the lathe. I don’t expect you to have these issues on such a short bed machine.

All the above should be done after you have set the headstock/saddle square. Bar in chuck, take a skim cut over say 50mm length and measure for parallel. If it’s not then adjust the headstock until it is.

 

Regarding the cutting tools;

The better the ground finish the better the cutting results as with a coarse finish you are more likely to get a “built up edge” if you are machining steels. This built up edge can be regularly removed by dressing your tools with a piece of wet stone.

Successful grinding of lathe tools and drills is a skilled task. Approach, side & front clearance, and rake are all different angles that all need to be considered when grinding tools. For drills it is backing off and point thinning etc.

 

I doubt that many people grind/sharpen drills these days and I think it’s right to consider whether it’s worth grinding standard lathe tools anymore. Indexable carbide inserts for turning are so much cheaper now that they might be considered a better alternative to grinding “in house”. I don’t know if indexable insert tool holders are available for your lathe but they are available in small sizes. Certainly 10mm square or less.

 

Worth a thought

 

Any questions, please feel free to ask as I have done a fair bit of lathe work in the past.

 

Cheers

Paul

 

[wefalck]

6 mm holders for triangular inserts are readily available from model engineering shops. I know sources in the UK and continental Europe, but wouldn't know any in the USA. Beware that all those inserts have rounded corners, so are not really suitable for turning sharp shoulders.

 

Grinding HSS-lathe tools for brass work is not a great magic, if you go about it systematically. I still found this the best option for really small pieces that need sharp inside corners. Once ground, I hone them from time to time on an Arkansas-stone. As there is no top-rake for brass, you can just rub the bit flat on the stone.

[Roger Pellett]

British ship modeler Brian King has written a number of interesting books about building 1:100 & 1:200 Royal Navy steam warships.  One book focuses on what he calls Model Engineering, the topic at hand.  In typical model ship book fashion he includes chapters on useful hand and power tools.

 

He has a few short comments about a tool that he calls a ”Linisher.”  This is the same as the small bench mounted vertical belt sanders sold everywhere in the US.  These typically use a 1” (25mm) wide belt.  He claims that this is a metal working tool with no real woodworking applications.

 

I bought one of these many years ago at a hardware store that was closing.  Like Mr King I did not find it to be particularly useful until taking his advice I used it to grind a HSS lathe tool.  I personally found it to be much easier to use than a conventional bench grinder.  It produced a well shaped tool quickly.

[kgstakes]

I've read (unless I missed it) ways to align the tailstock to the chuck or collets.  I've heard that you could turn a steel bar (or brass) to a sharp cone (point) and slide your tailstock up to it and align the two up.  Seems like it would work (in theory),  but in doing that this way, is there a chance that it would not be in alignment further away from chuck?  Or would this be a "quick down and dirty" way of doing it ?   I know some of you are professional machinists and  want or need it within a thousandth or less but I just heard you could do it that way and it works.

 

What do you guys think?  Can be done,  don't do it because not that accurate, or don't do it at all because it will eventually damage machine.

 

Thank you all for your comments and I'll keep reading and learning.

[kgstakes]

One other thing I wanted to ask (and I noticed).  Is when turning, and this is with the Taig lathe (and their so called live center), is that you only turn or cut towards the chuck.  True?  Reason I ask, is when I was using the "live center" (which is only spring loaded and spins) when I was turning wood, it would suck it out of the chuck.  Now I thought I tightened the chuck up, but has anyone with a Taig lathe had that happen to them as well?

 

I know on my atlas lathe I can use mortise tapers ( 1 & 2 I believe), wondering is there any aftermarket places that make a better live center for the Taig lathe?