P-51D Mustang by CDW - FINISHED - Dragon - 1:32 Scale

[Canute]

I had a buddy who did the panels is various shades and masked them with Post-It notes, sticky edge toward the panel. He was an IPMS guy and his planes look beautiful with the multi-shaded panels.

[DocRob]

I have these mask sets for my Tamiya P-51, makes life easier, hopefully.

 

P-51D MUSTANG - SURFACE PANELS MASK - 1/32, Miryoku MIR/32008 (scalemates.com)

P-51D MUSTANG - PAINT MASKS FOR WHEEL BAY - 1/32, Miryoku MIR/32009 (scalemates.com)

 

Cheers Rob

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, AJohnson said:

From reference I have the panels either side of the exhaust stubs often look darker (not just staining either). I’m no Mustang expert but weren’t some Mustangs wings painted, even the NM ones?

Yep, on all mustangs the panel around the exhaust was stainless steel.... And Yes, some of the Mustangs, (like the T-bolts), had camoed wings and bare metal fuselages... but for some reason pics are rare....

[Danstream]

16 hours ago, AJohnson said:

weren’t some Mustangs wings painted, even the NM ones?

Yes, even the metallic ones had the wing surfaces puttied and painted with aluminum paint (with the exception of removable panels). This was intended to get the maximum advantage from the newly introduced laminar wing sections. I don't know whether you might want to implement that at this stage.

 

Very nice finish and I love the blue nose with its glossy finish.

Cheers,

Dan

[Javlin]

Liking the looks Craig the pledge dulled the finish just about right to my eyes.

[CDW]

1 hour ago, Danstream said:

Yes, even the metallic ones had the wing surfaces puttied and painted with aluminum paint (with the exception of removable panels). This was intended to get the maximum advantage from the newly introduced laminar wing sections. I don't know whether you might want to implement that at this stage.

 

Very nice finish and I love the blue nose with its glossy finish.

Cheers,

Dan

Thanks Dan.

I have no reference photos to use as a guide for the putty. Modern restored P-51’s show no evidence of the putty so I won’t try to model it now. Maybe on another build when I have reference to work from.

 

 

 

Edited March 19 by CDW

[Danstream]

22 minutes ago, CDW said:

Modern restored P-51’s show no evidence of the putty so I won’t try to model it now.

It is perfectly fine if you leave it as is. It will be a nice model anyway.

However, as far as references, for your next build, you might find plenty on the web. Just an example:

http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/p51.html

 

Cheers,

Dan

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Danstream said:

metallic ones had the wing surfaces puttied and painted with aluminum paint

But it is something impossible to model... 

 

What he is talking about is the panel joints, yes in the mfg process, the panel joints were puttied to fill any gap, then smoothed to make an ultra smooth surface so the Laminar flow process would work to it's best advantage.... It's why you don't see it on any restored warbird and they polish up into seamless mirrors.... 

 

There isn't a modern kit out there that is going to require puttying the wing panel joints.... Besides the Aluminized paint the used to cover the putty polishes up almost like the metal itself does and a wartime bird didn't ever see any polish, cleaners yes but never polish...  The only time you see a polished mirror shiny warbird is the airshow, never in theater...

 

After looking at 10's of thousands of P-51 photos, reading the manufacturers manuals and the military reference manuals... Puttying the wings is something you can't model realistically....

 

Just my opinion as an avid P-51 lover and modeler...

[Old Collingwood]

5 hours ago, CDW said:

Thanks Dan.

I have no reference photos to use as a guide for the putty. Modern restored P-51’s show no evidence of the putty so I won’t try to model it now. Maybe on another build when I have reference to work from.

 

 

 

That guy owns some  Stunning planes.

 

OC.

[CDW]

1 hour ago, Old Collingwood said:

That guy owns some  Stunning planes.

 

OC.

What a lucky guy he is. All those warbirds along with the cash it takes to own, maintain, and fly them at will. Amazing indeed.

[Egilman]

4 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

That guy owns some  Stunning planes.

 

3 hours ago, CDW said:

What a lucky guy he is. All those warbirds along with the cash it takes to own, maintain, and fly them at will. Amazing indeed.

There's another guy that went one step further than just restoring them to flying condition... Paul Allen maintained a collection of warbirds, (a warbird is a plane that actually served in combat) that were not only restored to flying condition, but to original manufacturers specification as originally built... if they couldn't find an original part they went to the original part manufacturer or the current owner of the technical documentation, and had the part made using the original materials... Sometimes, they had to make the materials before they could make the part.... (the cloth covered wiring on the P-51 was a good example) all of the aircraft, (except for the Hurricane), are combat warbirds, and all of them are restored to original issued condition, and flyable...

 

But of course it takes deep pockets for such, and with 30,000 million dollars to his credit (30 billion) he could afford it...

 

The collection has been sold out of Mr Allen's estate, (his family didn't share his love of such things) and is being maintained by a 501C non profit corporation, created by one of the Sam Walton (Wal-Mart) heirs......

 

Flying Heritage

[Danstream]

6 hours ago, Egilman said:

But it is something impossible to model... 

Sorry, I don't intend to contradict you, but I cannot see your point. Just fill the engraved details and then paint the wing with a paint that mimic the original one as, for example, shown in the following article:

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/north-american-p-51d-mustang-in-detail-revisited-part-2-wings-and-tails/

 

Best regards,

Dan

Edited March 19 by Danstream

[CDW]

When listening to the YouTube video (posted on page 2) narrated by Bud Anderson, he says his ground crew worked all night stripping his aircraft to bare metal. While he doesn't mention putty, it seems likely to me that the crew stripped everything on top of the metal skin to lay it bare. 

[Egilman]

5 minutes ago, Danstream said:

Sorry, I don't intend to contradict you, but I cannot see your point.

No problem, you didn't... Not at all....

 

Any true restoration of a 1 to 1 P-51 aircraft should be finished that way as that is the way the real ones were done, the point was doing in in scale.... And yes that is a restored full scale P-51....

 

I've yet to see a scale model of a P-51 that has had it's wings puttied and painted over trying to simulate something that at it's thickest would be around 10-20 mils thick in real life.... (less than a thousandth of an inch in scale) as far as color goes your correct, they should be painted high gloss aluminum not bare metal like an F-86.... But then the example your showing is a museum warbird and the fuselage is semi polished, (seen by how reflective it is) which they never were in operational service...

 

They would be barely reflective as a bluish white/grey shiny metallic surface, 

 

Modern models don't have the deeply engraved panel lines of earlier models, which a good modeler would fill in anyway.... So the issue is forget the filling, sand off the rivet bumps and just paint it the right color in the first place... 

 

Besides most casual observers don't know the difference, and wouldn't notice it... And the ones you see at the airshows with shiny bare metal wings are not full historically accurate restorations... They are nice, and representative though and really impress a person when standing next to one....

 

Do me a favor, show us a modern model where the modeler filled and sanded the wing to get that color effect.... I've been unable to find one....

 

EG

[Egilman]

8 minutes ago, CDW said:

When listening to the YouTube video (posted on page 2) narrated by Bud Anderson, he says his ground crew worked all night stripping his aircraft to bare metal. While he doesn't mention putty, it seems likely to me that the crew stripped everything on top of the metal skin to lay it bare. 

Absolutely, it was restored to be displayed and demonstrated at airshows, they would do it that way... Besides the aircraft is never going to be required to perform where the absolute smoothness of the wings matters.. ie. never over 30,000 feet at 400+ kts and have to do combat maneuvers at that altitude at the same time.... That is what Laminar Flow provided the aircraft....

 

It's combat days are long over.... So make it purty to impress the crowds who have never seen one up close....

Edited March 20 by Egilman

[Danstream]

7 hours ago, Egilman said:

Do me a favor, show us a modern model where the modeler filled and sanded the wing to get that color effect.... I've been unable to find one....

One example might be in the following video:

P-51 with puttied wings

 

Said that, I should have puttied the wings of my Starfighter, but for laziness I didn't 😂 

@CDW, sorry for having highjacked your post.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[Egilman]

31 minutes ago, Danstream said:

One example might be in the following video:

Yeah the eduard Mustang has those canyons for panel lines... Very well, I concede the point my friend.... That's a model manufacturers engineering error/failure...

Yes they are puttied to smooth the wing, you have to fill them to get a decent build out of that kit... Modelers have been doing that for years... {chuckle} But in scale, 1/48 & smaller shouldn't have recessed panel lines they would also need to be filled on a 1/32 scale model as well...

 

On the 1/1 bird they were filled to cover the micrometer sized edges and gaps, maybe only a few thousandths of an inch. This is why when the paint is stripped off you don't notice the fill...

 

Windtunnel testing in 1940 established that the filling/smoothing added 20kts to the planes top speed...

 

The practice continued into the 50's... North American deleted the process on the F-86 when tunnel testing showed that it made no difference to the planes top speed... Laminar flow was dropped when power overcame drag sufficiently till where it just simply didn't matter anymore... In the 1940's they were looking at everything that could conceivably make a plane go faster, Laminar Flow gave the Mustang a 5% boost in airspeed, with the supercharged Merlin, that boost became 10% over 20kft, and created a legend.

 

Scaling it down to show it on a relatively small scale model, what's the point? you can't scribe a line small enough to represent the actual size of the panel gaps from a real P-51... Engineering defects caused by deficient thinking in the production of a model aren't the fault of the airplane being modeled and we as modelers have been fixing such for generations...

 

It all comes down to the modelers minds eye and what he/she sees when they look at the real thing... It's why we build to suit our view of the subject... 

 

I didn't check to see if the Airfix or Trumpeter kits has those canyons, but the newer Tamiya's don't... (At least the one I have doesn't)

 

I'll put it this way, the filling and smoothing done in the factory was never really noticed in the field when they had to strip and repaint the aircraft, that's how small the effect was...

 

And thank you Dan for reminding me that we shouldn't be derailing a great log...

 

My humble apologies....

 

 

 

[CDW]

13 hours ago, Danstream said:

Sorry, I don't intend to contradict you, but I cannot see your point. Just fill the engraved details and then paint the wing with a paint that mimic the original one as, for example, shown in the following article:

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/north-american-p-51d-mustang-in-detail-revisited-part-2-wings-and-tails/

 

Best regards,

Dan

Hi Dan

 

Don't worry about a thing. I enjoyed learning more about the original, factory finish on this aircraft by everything you shared with me here. Thanks and don't hesitate to contribute in this way to any of my build threads. 

4 hours ago, Egilman said:

Yeah the eduard Mustang has those canyons for panel lines... Very well, I concede the point my friend.... That's a model manufacturers engineering error/failure...

Yes they are puttied to smooth the wing, you have to fill them to get a decent build out of that kit... Modelers have been doing that for years... {chuckle} But in scale, 1/48 & smaller shouldn't have recessed panel lines they would also need to be filled on a 1/32 scale model as well...

 

On the 1/1 bird they were filled to cover the micrometer sized edges and gaps, maybe only a few thousandths of an inch. This is why when the paint is stripped off you don't notice the fill...

 

Windtunnel testing in 1940 established that the filling/smoothing added 20kts to the planes top speed...

 

The practice continued into the 50's... North American deleted the process on the F-86 when tunnel testing showed that it made no difference to the planes top speed... Laminar flow was dropped when power overcame drag sufficiently till where it just simply didn't matter anymore... In the 1940's they were looking at everything that could conceivably make a plane go faster, Laminar Flow gave the Mustang a 5% boost in airspeed, with the supercharged Merlin, that boost became 10% over 20kft, and created a legend.

 

Scaling it down to show it on a relatively small scale model, what's the point? you can't scribe a line small enough to represent the actual size of the panel gaps from a real P-51... Engineering defects caused by deficient thinking in the production of a model aren't the fault of the airplane being modeled and we as modelers have been fixing such for generations...

 

It all comes down to the modelers minds eye and what he/she sees when they look at the real thing... It's why we build to suit our view of the subject... 

 

I didn't check to see if the Airfix or Trumpeter kits has those canyons, but the newer Tamiya's don't... (At least the one I have doesn't)

 

I'll put it this way, the filling and smoothing done in the factory was never really noticed in the field when they had to strip and repaint the aircraft, that's how small the effect was...

 

And thank you Dan for reminding me that we shouldn't be derailing a great log...

 

My humble apologies....

 

 

 

 

And likewise, thanks to you as well, EG. You are a storehouse of knowledge on so many subjects we model, and I always look forward to you sharing that information on my build threads.

[AJohnson]

9 hours ago, CDW said:

Hi Dan

 

Don't worry about a thing. I enjoyed learning more about the original, factory finish on this aircraft by everything you shared with me here. Thanks and don't hesitate to contribute in this way to any of my build threads. 

 

And likewise, thanks to you as well, EG. You are a storehouse of knowledge on so many subjects we model, and I always look forward to you sharing that information on my build threads.

Also apologies for setting that particular Hare running! 🐇
A half remembered detail I recalled about Mustang wings. But I did know the folks here on MSW would know the details.

Seems modelling with painted and stripped bare metal is fine if you can get the evidence for your particular kite and what happened to it in the field. 
Love the knowledge out there in MSW! 😁

[CDW]

When test fitting the stock wheels and rubber tires, I discovered the tires are too big for the wheels. Either Dragon didn't do any proof build of their kit before putting it out there for the public to buy, or they knew about the fit issues and put it out there anyway. Whatever the cause, I needed to find and purchase a set of wheels and tires as a replacement. I bought these Eduard wheels for that purpose.

 

 

I ran a little test on the drop tanks and wing mounts. I mixed Mr. Color super silver2 with Mr. Color leveling thinner 400 at a ratio of 1 part paint to 10 parts thinner. I sprayed on the highly reduced paint in light, thin coats, at 12psi ala Alclad application style. The silver was applied over a base of AK Xtreme Metal black base. The black base is a lacquer. It went down super smooth and glossy, very fast drying. The black base was shot straight from the bottle using my airbrush. I believe the silver finish may take a light polish. It is said to have much better durability with handling and masking than does Alclad, no clear coat needed. I'm interested to see how it works out. I like the silver finish, much similar to the Alclad in appearance. Very fine silver pigment.

 

[Egilman]

That is the finish of a brand new bird fresh off the assembly line.... The minute it hits the outside air it will start to turn dullish white/grey...  Takes about two months for the metals natural oxidated protective surface to come out in real life...

 

Very very good job spraying that surface.... A little too shiny for an in theater service bird, but hey, that finish is extremely hard to duplicate....

 

By the time this particular bird reached service, 27 days from delivery to first mission, this is exactly what she would have looked like getting her unit markings and colors...

 

No one could do it better my friend... WELL DONE!!!

[Old Collingwood]

Superb finish  on  that  -  love it.

 

OC.

Edited March 29 by Old Collingwood

[CDW]

The auxiliary fuel tanks and mounts have been attached to the wings. The prop and spinner have been assembled and attached. The windscreen required some reshaping with sanding sticks to fit on the fuselage. Without reshaping, a nasty gap would have resulted between the windscreen and fuselage. After reshaping, applied a Pledge clear coat on the windscreen and canopy before masking and painting the frames on both. Here in these photos, the windscreen and canopy are dry-fitted to check for a decent fit before cementing in place. I've yet to install the seat and aerial wiring before cementing the canopy in place. Will fix the canopy in an open position.

 

[CDW]

I masked up and painted a few panels in different colors to break up the monotone gloss silver of the airframe, and to make the model more interesting-looking.

Before I move forward with more masking and painting of panels, I wanted to use this photo to proof-test the concept. In the lighting of my work room, it's not easy for me to see if the difference is worth the time and effort of masking. It's time consuming to be sure. In this photo, you can perhaps (you tell me) see the stainless-steel colored panels directly behind the exhaust and the blue nose color. On the wing top, the machine gun/ammo feed cover is painted in dull aluminum. Can you see it, and do you think it makes enough difference to continue. Should I use a different shade of aluminum perhaps?

 

PS: Maybe I'll try that "post-it note" masking trick Ken wrote about his buddy using. It would be a lot faster I think than the way I mased and painted these first few panels.

 

 

Edited March 28 by CDW

[CDW]

[Old Collingwood]

41 minutes ago, CDW said:

Yep that will  do  nicely  Craig   -   really impressive.

 

OC.

[chadwijm6]

3 hours ago, CDW said:

 

You can certainly see the difference in this photo. I imagine it will look different in different lighting. Definitely worth the effort Craig it looks tremendous.

 

 

[Egilman]

When she is done, I hope we can get a look at her in natural sunlight....

[CDW]

She's standing on her own legs now.

 

 

[Dave_E]

Will look like a new bird off the line once you get the decals on! 👍😀