1880's Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver by Keith Black - 1:120 Scale

[mbp521]

Keith, I am loving this build. Each little detail you add increases my amazement.  
 

This may have been discussed earlier and forgive me if I totally missed it, but I’m curious, if this is a raft why couldn’t the water tanks just be fed from the river they were floating on with a simple feed pump instead of having a supply boat provide it? I mean how much different is the boiler setup on these rigs compared to those on the steamboats?

 

-Brian

[Keith Black]

53 minutes ago, mbp521 said:

Keith, I am loving this build. Each little detail you add increases my amazement.  
 

This may have been discussed earlier and forgive me if I totally missed it, but I’m curious, if this is a raft why couldn’t the water tanks just be fed from the river they were floating on with a simple feed pump instead of having a supply boat provide it? I mean how much different is the boiler setup on these rigs compared to those on the steamboats?

 Thank you, Brian. This little project will hopefully become part of a larger project based around the Brooklyn Navy Yard. According to Ken, @Canute the water near the mouth of the East River would have been too brackish to have supplied water for the boiler. I dare say there's very little difference in the engine fundamentals between a Steam Donkey engine and boiler and the engines and boilers for steamboats. The only difference is the water, steamboats plied fresh water rivers while the barge in this build was towed/pushed around in brackish waters.     

Edited September 1 by Keith Black

[Retired guy]

Hi Keith, really like all the small details you are putting into your model 👍.

Just a question, did this pile driver just hammer wood piles or was it used for steel piles as well.

 

Regards

Richard

 

 

[Keith Black]

7 hours ago, Retired guy said:

Hi Keith, really like all the small details you are putting into your model 👍.

Just a question, did this pile driver just hammer wood piles or was it used for steel piles as well.

 Thank you, Richard. Strictly wood piling, steel wasn't used till after 1900. 

[Keith Black]

 Thank you everyone for the comments, likes, and for being part of the journey.

 

  I've built a test shed wall to get an idea of what's going to be required to complete the shed. The wall is 1x2 inches representing a wall 10x20 feet. The color is Burnt Sienna, I'm trying replicate the old boxcar red of over a century ago and I'm not sure I've hit the mark. Any thoughts from you folks regarding the color would be greatly appreciated. I also need to be directed to where I can purchase liquid window glass, I tried finding a supplier without success, 

 

 All of the sheds in the photos I've seen have horizontal siding some are shiplap siding and in others the boards are nailed edge to edge. Some had window trim and others did not. As I've gotten into this part of the project it's turned out to be more complicated than I had originally thought would be due to the scale. 

 

 For all these years I've been freehand cutting small wood stock with an X-Acto chisel blade. Because I've not had more than a few pieces to cut I've fiddled making the ends square by sanding. The engine shed and future associated builds is going to require a lot of exact cut pieces and freehand cutting is out of the question. After seeing a favorable review on MSW I purchased this tool from Unique Master Models and is due to arrive this Saturday.  

 

 

 Thank you so much for your support. 

 

   keith

[Glen McGuire]

4 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Any thoughts from you folks regarding the color would be greatly appreciated.

I think the burnt sienna is too brown if you are trying for boxcar red.  I envision it more red than brown like the pics below.  I would do a base of a reddish-brown (a bit more more red than brown) and add some weathering techniques.

 

 

Edited September 6 by Glen McGuire

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

I think the burnt sienna is too brown if you are trying for boxcar red.  I envision it more red than brown like the pics below.  I would do a base of a reddish-brown (a bit more more red than brown) and add some weathering techniques.

 Thank you, Glen. I think the Burnt Sienna is too orange?

 

 Is this more what you were thinking? 

 

Myself, I envision a more brownish red like the below.

 

 

Edited September 6 by Keith Black

[mbp521]

7 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Any thoughts from you folks regarding the color would be greatly appreciated. I also need to be directed to where I can purchase liquid window glass, I tried finding a supplier without success, 

Keith, in the past I’ve used clear Elmer’s glue for small window glass. I placed the frame on a piece of glass and taped it down, dripped the glue to fill the frame and let it dry. The glue shrinks down to a thin layer and looks very realistic. It somewhat resembles rain glass which would have been more the style back in the day and the frame can be easily pried off the piece of class with an xacto chisel blade. 
 

-Brian

[Cathead]

Vallejo makes a "Boxcar Red": https://micromark.com/products/vallejo-acrylic-airbrush-paint-boxcar-red-1oz?keyword=vallejo boxca

[mcb]

Hi Keith,

Your pile driver is coming along well.  I am anticipating the next models in the series.

 

Box car red varied widely.  I would be happy with any of the above suggestions as well as what you have already painted.  I think we may be giving it far more thought than those who were responsible for the original.  Just be sure to weather/fade it a little since the deck and hull are weathered.

 

As for window glazing you may be thinking of Micro Kristal Klear which should be available in any hobby shop (if you still have a local hobby shop).

It looks much like Elmer's white glue as Brian mentioned above.  Kristal Klear, I think may be less cloudy, but worth trying the Elmer's first if you have it. 

 

Nice looking cutter.  Let us know your impressions when you get to use it.

 

Thanks for posting,

mcb

[druxey]

Another glazing possibility is mica. Any rockhound shop will have some.

[Keith Black]

7 hours ago, mbp521 said:

Keith, in the past I’ve used clear Elmer’s glue for small window glass. I placed the frame on a piece of glass and taped it down, dripped the glue to fill the frame and let it dry. The glue shrinks down to a thin layer and looks very realistic. It somewhat resembles rain glass which would have been more the style back in the day and the frame can be easily pried off the piece of class with an xacto chisel blade.

 Thank you, Brian. I've ordered the below product, I'll let everyone know know how it works out. If it doesn't I'll give Elmers a try.

 

6 hours ago, Cathead said:

Vallejo makes a "Boxcar Red": https://micromark.com/products/vallejo-acrylic-airbrush-paint-boxcar-red-1oz?keyword=vallejo boxca

 Thank you, Eric. I've ordered both the Vallejo Ferrari Red and the Apple Barrel Barn Red, the Apple Barrel Barn Red looks very close to the Vallejo Brown in the link you sent. When these two arrive I'll do test strips on  the current test wall and post results.

 

6 hours ago, mcb said:

Your pile driver is coming along well.  I am anticipating the next models in the series.

 

Box car red varied widely.  I would be happy with any of the above suggestions as well as what you have already painted.  I think we may be giving it far more thought than those who were responsible for the original.  Just be sure to weather/fade it a little since the deck and hull are weathered.

 

As for window glazing you may be thinking of Micro Kristal Klear which should be available in any hobby shop (if you still have a local hobby shop).

It looks much like Elmer's white glue as Brian mentioned above.  Kristal Klear, I think may be less cloudy, but worth trying the Elmer's first if you have it. 

 

Nice looking cutter.  Let us know your impressions when you get to use it.

 

 Thank you, mcb. I've probably overthought this way too much.   Trying to determine not only a color but a hue from historical black and white photos is an exercise in futility, I think it's more of a best guess scenario. 

 

 Example is the photo you sent. The engine shed on the right next to the rolling stock looks to be the same color and it does look to be a bit more red than brown.........maybe?? The engine shed on the left looks to be more brownish but that could be because of the direction of the sunlight?

 

 As far as weathering goes...... The model I've built represents a barge pile driver approximately two years old. Much older and the Steam Donkey would have been the improved dual cylinder, dual drum engine. One wouldn't expect to see flaking paint but one would expect to see rubbed, scrapped, and soot and mud dirty paint as the photo below suggest. 

 

I'll definitely give a review of the cutter once I've had a chance to put it to work. 

 

6 hours ago, druxey said:

Another glazing possibility is mica. Any rockhound shop will have some.

 Thank you, David. The problem with mica or plastic is the scale/size. The window openings are 0.15 x 0.15 inches, that's so small to not only cut accurately but to then try to fit into the opening and then glue it in place. I tried some thin clear food container plastic that would be perfect if I could cut it accurately and then get it installed. I tried but my normal patience evaporated rather quickly.  

 

 

 Thank you to everyone for the likes, comments, and taking the time to follow along.

 

 Keith

Edited September 6 by Keith Black

[Glen McGuire]

4 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

Thank you, mcb. I've probably overthought this way too much.

That's what we do!

[Keith Black]

 Thank you to everyone for the kind comments and the likes.

 

 While waiting for shed materials and the cutting tool to arrive I built the water tank and stand and also added a ladder. The three water tank elements are attached to one another and stand alone but are not attached to the barge deck. The water tank assembly will be the last elements to be permanently attached. 

 

 

 

 Thank you to all for following along.

 

  Keith

[Knocklouder]

Nice work Keith, that looks impressive. I have an old fuel oil tank that looks just like this except mine is silver,  great work

Bob M.

[Keith Black]

9 hours ago, Knocklouder said:

Nice work Keith, that looks impressive. I have an old fuel oil tank that looks just like this except mine is silver,  great work

 Thank you, Bob. The water tank was a fun little element to make, in fact this whole project has been a kick. 

 

 

 The RP Toolz Miter Cutter is a top notch tool and the cost of $124.94 including shipping is some of the best money I've ever spent. I can't believe how I've needlessly struggled all these years by not having the RP Cutter or a like kind razor cutter. RP's model is small, a mere 4.7 x 6 inches but it's heavy being all metal, no plastic. It is a joy to use and everyone here deserves owning the RP cutter or a version thereof. I sent the owner of UMM an email telling him how much I was impressed by the cutter and thanking him. I'm pretty hard to please but saying I'm pleased is an understatement. 

Edited September 8 by Keith Black

[Retired guy]

Just looks the part Keith 👍

 

Regards

Richard

[tmj]

On 9/6/2024 at 1:04 PM, Keith Black said:

Thank you, Brian. I've ordered the below product, I'll let everyone know how it works out. If it doesn't, I'll give Elmers a try.

I'm definitely interested in this stuff too! Eagerly awaiting your results, Keith! 

[FriedClams]

 

20 hours ago, Keith Black said:

some of the best money I've ever spent. I can't believe how I've needlessly struggled all these years by not having the RP Cutter or a like kind razor cutter

 

Amen.  I've got a razor chopper from Northwest Short Line that I used for decades, but about six months ago a purchased the “Slicer” cutter from Ultimation that's just the “bee's knees” and what an upgrade in quality and precision - a joy to use.  Like the RPToolz cutter it was not cheap, but as you say - worth every penny.  I also picked up Ultimation's precision sander several years ago and I don't want to wax poetic, so I'll just say – I like it.  Good to hear you're happy with your new cutter.  Looks like a great tool.

 

Gallery Glass crystal clear is a good product, and I think it's a good choice for your tiny windows. It's thinner than PVA and has good surface tension properties, so it works well on small items.  The lower window sash in the image below was done with GG.  I screed across the back side of the window with the side of a toothpick loaded with the stuff.  Sliding the toothpick diagonally across the opening works best to draw the film over the void.  You can always wipe it off and try again.  Look forward to your opinion of the product.

 

 

Oh - and great work on the boiler, stand and ladder, Keith.  Very nice!

 

Gary

 

[Keith Black]

 Thank you everyone for the kind comments and likes.

 

21 hours ago, Retired guy said:

Just looks the part Keith 👍

 Thank you, Richard.

 

1 hour ago, FriedClams said:

great work on the boiler, stand and ladder, Keith.  Very nice!

 Thank you, Gary

 

 

18 hours ago, tmj said:

I'm definitely interested in this stuff too! Eagerly awaiting your results, Keith! 

 

1 hour ago, FriedClams said:

Gallery Glass crystal clear is a good product, and I think it's a good choice for your tiny windows. It's thinner than PVA and has good surface tension properties, so it works well on small items.  The lower window sash in the image below was done with GG.  I screed across the back side of the window with the side of a toothpick loaded with the stuff.  Sliding the toothpick diagonally across the opening works best to draw the film over the void.  You can always wipe it off and try again.  Look forward to your opinion of the product.

 First off, Gary. That window blows my tomato!  

 

Tom, Gary.  

 

 When I first opened the bottle of Gallery Glass there was a subtle whiff of what I remember Elmer's smelling like from many years ago. I could be wrong but GG maybe nothing more than Elmer's with an added thickening agent? Whatever the formulation it works which is the important part. One doesn't get proficient after only a couple of tries, I need to practice on several more opening before I'm ready to use it in the final application. Getting the 'just right' amount seems to be the trick and that's only going to come with experience.

 

GG in windows on left, windows on right destined for further testing. 

 

On 9/6/2024 at 7:22 AM, Glen McGuire said:

I envision it more red than brown 

   Glen, this is the Apple, Barn Red. Better? I haven't received the Vallejo Red as of yet. The Apple brand craft paint is very thin compared to the Folk Art brand craft paint.

 

 Thank you to all for following along.

 

   Keith

 

 

 

 

[FriedClams]

Hey Keith,

 

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

That window blows my tomato!

 

It's injection molded styrene in HO scale from Grandt Line Products.  I have a shoebox filled with assorted windows and doors from GLP and some are quite small.  What are the dimensions of your window cutouts, upper and lower combined? 

 

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

I could be wrong but GG maybe nothing more than Elmer's with an added thickening agent?

 

It is certainly a PVA based product, but I find it thinner than Elmer's glue.  And it dries very clear and more importantly shiny.  It's similar to the product that @mcb mentioned above - Micro Kristal Klear.  Is there a frame of some kind around the window on the backside of the wall?  I think you will be able to achieve a cleaner film if there was a simple rectangular frame made from thin narrow wood strips surrounding the double cutouts at each window.  This would this hold the film just a hair off the wall keeping the GG from clinging to the inside perimeter of the wall cutouts.  Just a thought - and you're right, it does take a bit of practice.

 

Gary

[Glen McGuire]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Glen, this is the Apple, Barn Red. Better?

Yes, Keith!  Definitely a better shade of boxcar red.  At least for my eye. 

[KeithAug]

Quite an educational series of posts. Thanks to everyone.

[Keith Black]

 Thank you to everyone for stopping by and the likes.

 

 

 

On 9/8/2024 at 5:39 PM, FriedClams said:

It's injection molded styrene in HO scale from Grandt Line Products.  I have a shoebox filled with assorted windows and doors from GLP and some are quite small.  What are the dimensions of your window cutouts, upper and lower combined? 

 it wouldn't have surprised me one bit if you had made that window, Gary.

 

 Gary, thank you for the Grand Line Products heads up but they've been sold to San Juan Details which appears to be part of American Limited Models. I tried placing a order Sunday evening without success. I sent an email and then called their posted phone number and a gal's voice said she was only there from 10:45 till 2:30, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, nice gig if you can get it.  I called this afternoon and I still got her VM. I have yet to receive a call back or email reply. Moving on.........so I deleted everything in my cart at San Juan Details and placed a order with Tichy Train Group, https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Home.aspx. I've yet to receive a tracking number but they did take my CC and provided an order number. They claim to make their own stuff and say they keep everything they make on the shelf and ready to ship, we'll see.

 

On 9/8/2024 at 5:42 PM, Glen McGuire said:

Yes, Keith!  Definitely a better shade of boxcar red.  At least for my eye. 

 Thank you, Glen. I still haven't received the Vallejo paint but am ready to move forward with the Apple brand.

 

23 hours ago, KeithAug said:

Quite an educational series of posts. Thanks to everyone.

 Thank you, Keith. That's just one of the many great things about MSW, the exchange of information and knowledge.

 

 Modeling a hundred years ago had to be tough sledding. No Google search for information with only your wits and experience to complete a project unless you were fortunate enough to be a member of a club or had friends with like interest.

 

 

 I'm dragging my feet a little waiting on windows from Tichy, slowly framing shed sides. I was so dreading making the the shed due to cutting inaccuracies but the RP cutter is SO much fun to use, I sit there cutting pieces and am amazed how easy that process now is. 

 

 

 Thank you everyone for the support.

 

  Keith

[KeithAug]

20 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

Modeling a hundred years ago had to be tough sledding. No Google search for information with only your wits and experience to complete a project

It might seem that the internet was invented a hundred years ago but it was 1983, when some of were still in our middle ages! Maybe in 2000 years time the dating system will have changed from BC and AD to BI and AI.

[Canute]

Keith, Tichy is pretty reliable and the the parts are sturdy. The Grandt Line/ San Juan parts may be finer, though a little more delicate. Have patience. 😄

[Keith Black]

6 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

It might seem that the internet was invented a hundred years ago but it was 1983, when some of were still in our middle ages! Maybe in 2000 years time the dating system will have changed from BC and AD to BI and AI.

 More likely it'll change from BC/AD to B3DP/A3DP. IMHO, 3D printing is going to be the great game changer in modeling. My generation is so far behind that curve it'll have little to no impact on us but for future generations, not only is there the allure of model making but also using computers to create programs and the use of 3D printers which is becoming second nature to most kids of today.

 

 My dear mother was so worried about me using airplane glue when I was a kid that I had to build my first model ship (Viking Longship) using Elmer's white glue which of course was a real dog's lunch of a build. But today's kids, early on, are given the power to generate launch codes and everybody accepts today's early introduction to computing power as a perfectly normal and acceptable thing. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Canute said:

Keith, Tichy is pretty reliable and the the parts are sturdy. The Grandt Line/ San Juan parts may be finer, though a little more delicate. Have patience. 😄

 Ken, thank you for the assurance regarding Tichy. It's just a shame that San Juan seems to be getting off to a rough start. 

[FriedClams]

Hey Keith,

 

As Ken stated above, Tichy Train is quite reliable.  I've ordered from them myself and have always been satisfied.  Very nice products and they do indeed produce their own stuff.  Every window I have bought from them has come with laser cut glazing to fit it included - pops right in.

 

Gary

[clearway]

problem is as good as 3d printing is it might stop a lot of people actually 'modelling' if that makes sense and stop people developing their skills and solutions to problems- only my humble tuppence worth😁

 

Build is looking awesome keith

 

Keith

[wefalck]

... the same was probably said, when manual lathes and milling machines and powered saws were introduced. The question is: what is our objective - to build better models or to develop manual skills? On the other hand, if you want to show bare metal or wood, there is no 3D-printing option (yet).