HMS Montague 1779 bygaryshipwright - 74-gun Alfred-class

[rlb]

As far as I'm concerned I declare the stove competition a tie.   Great work, Gary.  Nice chain on the rotisserie also.

 

Ron

[Remcohe]

That's lovely Gary. Pan's are on my to do list as I plan to make some sort of cupboard opposite of the hearth. But only a few, I don't want to turn the galley into a doll house......

[BANYAN]

Hi Gary very nice work; be careful though, too cute and Mr Jones may need an attire change to something more frilly

 

cheers

 

Pat

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Ron. But can we have a recount. I vote for Remco

 

Hi Remco. Lovely job sir on those items and thank you. They do seem to add life to the stoves don't they. I do remember reading some were that the beauty is in the detail's and must say, you hit the nail on the head. I do have a couple of more items to add and do agree, sure don't want to turn it in to a doll house.

 

Hi Pat and thank you. Well maybe a little and but do believe Mr Jones just may put up a fight if I put a dress on him. 

[druxey]

Careful. Next we'll be demanding a cook-off from these two gentlemen on their stoves!

[Marsares]

Can't believe you haven't made any cutlery for the stove yet...!! :-)

[Sailor1234567890]

Would a ship's stove like that have carried small pots like you've got? I would have figured nothign smaller than a giant stock pot type pot since they're feeding hundreds...... The workmanship you've demonstrated is wonderful. I look forward to seeing more of it.

[garyshipwright]

Hi druxey. Sorry sir I don't cook, accept maybe a can of soup

 

Hello Marsares. Don't believe I will sir. That may just be a little to small for me but it's a ideal I just may have to look in to.

 

Hi Sailor 1234567890, and thank you. As far as I can tell from looking of this photo, at the equipment around the Victory stove I would say yes they did. It seems they even had frying pans which I just may have to make a couple. As far as the giant stock pot there was two big boiler's on the other side from the grill section plus a stove for cooking bread. 

 

Gary

Edited February 21, 2015 by garyshipwright

[druxey]

You can manage soup, Gary? That's good enough to be a ship's cook. You're pressed!

[garyshipwright]

           Gary

[SJSoane]

 

Hi Gary,

 

Looks great. It does make you think about how a relatively few cooks with only a relatively few cooking surfaces and pots could cook for 650 men even if it was in shifts. Think about a kitchen today for a typical banquet hall, in comparison.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[LFrankCPA]

Hi Gary,

I'm building Alfred also, Haun's plans from Dave at 3/16" to the foot.

I was starting to build the pump well, which lead to the Orlop beams, which lead to the Cable Tier......I have most of the books, but could not find the answer to my question. So, after exhausting all my reference material, I headed to your build log. Because of your pictures I understand about the vertical grating. However, the gratings that would be the deck planking still has me confused. If you had planked this area on your Alfred, how would you have done it?????

I'm so glad you were able to repost your build log; I reference it frequently.

Thanks,
Larry

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Mark. It does make one stop and think till you been on a air craft carrier which had a crew of 7000. Try feeding that many guys. That is untill you find out that they had three kitchens that usually work 24/7. Had to work in one for two weeks when I was on board the Midway. Lots of fun for sure.

 

Hi Larry.Thank you sir and am glad that my log is a help to you.  I was going to ask Larry but have you started a build log and would love to see your Alfred on here. Now if I understand your question your asking about the grating/deck planking on the orlop deck around the pump well? As far as grating on this deck am not sure that other then in the middle were hatches would of been may of been the only place for grating, which probably been flushed with the planking. Most of the plank's would of been short and fitted in to rabbets on the forward and aft edges of the top of the beams, which could be removed in order to get at the supplies in the hold. If I was going to plank it I would have just cut short planks to fit  between the beams. They did also fit carlings and ledges between the orlop beams to help strengthen the short planks between the beams but I didn't install them also. You may of miss this detail on the orlop deck so have included a photo showing the rabbet. Peter Goodwin in his book Sailing Man of War, show's on page 59 fig 2/8 how the planks would of looked accept I do believe they would have been flush with the beams. Keeps one from stubbing a toe that's for sure. Hope this is of some help Larry. If it doesn't answer you question let me know and we will come up with the right answer.

Gary 

Edited February 2, 2014 by garyshipwright

[42rocker]

Your work on the Alfred is Great. Glad to see your stove looking so good. Enjoy.

 

Later Tim

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Tim. It was a fun project. I got some more metal from Micro Mart for making some more pot's and pan's, but havn't got around to doing them yet. Been working on the capstan and a good shop clean up. Funny how not finding a tool because of the other stuff on top of  it will make let you know that its time to clean up the shop. Gary

[LFrankCPA]

Thanks for the quick reply Gary.
My legs were amputated a couple of three years ago, so getting around for me is difficult. I must spend a third of my time positioning my wheel chair, only to find out the tool I need is "over there". I am also restricted to hand tools only. I would love to share my build with the community but I don't think I can at this time.

I guess I was expecting more on the Orlop deck, I understand now about the vertical grating described by Goodwin and pictured on page 112. I appears that the vertical grating formed the inbound bulkhead of the carptners walk fore and aft and maybe in the cable tier. Longridge has a clearer picture of this at plates 13 and 16. I guess I somehow got it in my head that the cable tier proper would have been grated; as one of its purposes was to allow the cables to drain. Goodwin also shows 'cable tier beams' at fig 4.3 bottom. That I do not understand as it is counterintuitive to the construction of the rest of the deck, being flush with the beam heads.

The engineering on these ships is just unbelievable.

Thanks, Gary

Larry

[garyshipwright]

Hi Larry.

 

No hurry and my wife says that I move like a snail.  As far as the issues with the water draining off of the cables, the deck boards were not made water tight being that the orlop deck was below the water line, and guess they figure it would not do any good, make getting at the supplies harder. The cable tier beams in that picture seem to be a little on the large size and would of looked more like the ones on page 114. You probably already know this part but they were just used to provide a space for air movement underneith the cable's to help them dry and prevent rot. The  reseach I done on that part Larry said that the battens were 2 inches thick and was placed every 2 foot in the cable tier. Being that I didn't put any planks in the area only left me the top of the beams to put them. Let me know good sir if there is any more info or help on her.

 

Gary

[LFrankCPA]

So I think I will put grating for planking on the carpenters walk, next to ship side, out about 4 feet, put a vertical grating for the bulkhead, from stem to stern in the walk. Put in authorship battens/beams on the cable deck tier proper, about 4' tall. Then make a thousand feet of cable......

Thanks for your help Gary. I'll keep an eye or two on your build, they work just fine..

Larry

[bucknbarney]

Oh my word! This build is absolutely breathtaking. I am in complete awe of your talents, Gary!

Edited February 4, 2014 by bucknbarney

[42rocker]

Having seen pics of your great shop and the Sherline tools and other items that you have I find it hard to believe that you covered something up.

I guess that you used the pics of the Alfred that was in the Science Museum that I sent you a long while ago. If you need more of them or whatever let me know.

 

Later Tim

[garyshipwright]

Thanks bucknbarney.

 

Hi Tim,and thank you. It has been awhile,  but at the moment my memory fails me on those pictures sir, that and the computer crash I had a couple of years ago. Could you send me a couple more please or just post them here on the log.

 

Gary. 

[garyshipwright]

Well guys figure I couldn't let February end with at least a small update. Have been working on the cannons and a few other items such as the chain pumps, capstan along with redoing the helm port and upper deck transom. It seems the more I looked at those items the more I wanted to redo them and seems that that's what I did. Also added three more of the chain pump sprockets and not hoods along with the chain pin's for the capstan and drop pawl's. Did Montagu have the drop pawl's, maybe yes may be no, butt does seem that they were being used in the fleet as early as 1770 so figure I am safe adding them. Enjoy the photo's folks.  Only 6 more 32 pounder's to add and the guns for this deck will be done.    Gary   

 

 

 

 

[Modeler12]

As always, Gary: OUTSTANDING

[mtaylor]

Wow! Impressive work, Gary.  You got quite a bit done.

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Jay and Mark. It does seem that with the planking done, it put me on a heading to be able to add the rest of the parts and pieces to the deck. At the moment am trying to figure out how to take better picture's  of her. Seems that some of the  items are not in focus so figure I would break out the trypod and take a better picture. Found the trypod but would you believe it if I told you that the quick release plate is missing. Going to have to make a new one and then I can maybe get a better picture. Thanks again guys. Gary

[Modeler12]

Gary, I am sure you are also a handyman around the house. To make your own release plate for your tripod is great. Most people would go and buy another one. I love your attitude, Sir.

 

I agree, however, that to take good close-ups require a tripod. Nevertheless, your pictures have been very sharp and clear. You must have a steady hand.

 

Q. When you talked about the capstan and the palls. Are you referring to the palls on the bottom? I am surprised there is even a history about that. In other words, the idea of using these kind of 'back stops' date from around 1770?

[dgbot]

Outstanding work Gary. 

David B

[druxey]

Coming on a treat, Gary. She looks terrific!

[Senior ole salt]

You ain't kidding me Gary. You got some miniature shipwrights working for you. Probably space aliens, and all master shipwrights from some distant planet.

 

Outstanding and thanks for posting it all.

 

S.os

[garyshipwright]

Thanks Jay, David B, druxey and Sos.

 

 

  Jay the hands are not to bad, and the misses does keep me busy around the house fixes this and that. As far as the capstan and pawls, yes the one at the bottom. As far as the history on them, John H Harland wrote a book on them, called Capstans and Windlasses and talks about the drop pawl more or less replacing the sliding pawl and mention a fellow named Eckhardt. 

 

   Another place that I found more information on the 1770 date was found in his book and in Sea Watch book Message in a Model, Ab Hoving. It talks  about a fellow named Eckhardt who was known at the guy who invented one of the biggest improvements to the capstan. The invention was tested on the English Ship Defiance, a 64 gun warship in 1771.  Of course his invention didn't catch on but his invention did have drop pawls. Also shown in Goodwin book, Constructing the English ship of war, which mine is out in the workshop, shows drop pawls on capstan earlier then 1770. Am not sure of the page number and as soon as I get back out there will add to this post. 

 

 Do believe that druxey mention a article in the NRG but can't remember which one at the moment but will add that to, that is as soon as I can find it. Gary