HMS Snake by Beef Wellington - FINISHED - Caldercraft - Scale 1: 64 - First wooden ship build

[j21896]

Hi Jason,

 

You are progressing through this rigging thing beautifully!

 

I wonder, could you expound a bit for those of us who haven't yet gotten into serving lines?  This is probably a stupid question, but why is "trimming a bit off" not an option?

 

Thanks,

Robert

[Beef Wellington]

BE - Honestly I have no idea ho anyone could do it without a machine, I'm finding it tricky enough with one.

 

John - hopefully you'll enjoy it when you get there!

 

Robert - the inability to trim all comes down to the fact that the line used in the serving needs to be secured at both ends.  The technique I'm using is to use a needle to thread the serving line through the thicker line and secure with an overhand knot and drop of G-S Hypo cement (It really is a great glue to use on rigging).  If you were to try trim this back then everything just comes unraveled.  It would be such a time saver to have a  length of served line and then just trim as needed!

 

End with serving line threaded through and small overhand knot...

 

...with G-S Hypo cement and trimmed.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[Beef Wellington]

Main shrouds

 

Some "notes to self", managed to get a process going for doing the shrouds in a way that felt comfortable, details below and results.  Apologize for the quality of the photos, for some reason these just seem off today.

 

Hope someone can help with a list of questions:

1. Instructions indicate that the futtock stave should be made with 1mm brass wire.  What would this have been made of on actual ship, would it have had rope wrapped around it like serving or puddening?
2. Would people advise to attach the futtock stave before doing ratlines - seems that it might hold the shrouds a little more in place
3. What dictated whether stretchers were attached (or not), and would these have been attached 'permanently', in as much as anything would be permanent.
4. Would catharpins have been so attached so as to deflect the shrouds inwards at the futtock staves, or would the line of the shrouds be maintained?

Any insights much appreciated!

 

Shroud pulled at taught as possible around deadeye, twin spacers being used to keep it steady.  (End that will be trimmed passed up through the tops temporarily)

 

Overhand knot tied at back and front of shroud a close as possible to the deadeyes.  

 

Overhand knots then alternated working downward to close up the hole, no more than 3-4 typically required.  Last know secured with G-S Hypo cement and ends trimmed.  Found using some tweezers made this easier to manipulate as the shroud can be controlled much easier.

 

End trimmed and then end and middle seizing tied using same method as described above

 

There's something very pleasing about a stack of shrouds!  The fore-most shrouds are served to protect against wear from the sails, this allowed me to establish a new personal best for longest length served (268mm).  I've found it helpful while serving to keep compacting the serving line even if it doesn't appear to need it, it seems to give a more consistent result although I've still not perfected this technique.

 

Despite best attempts, I just could get the line of the serving to be straight across the shrouds.  I'm guessing that this would have not always been perfect on real ships either despite the pictures in books.  At least thats my story/excuse.

 

Main shrouds in place, I'll leave in place for now and do a final tightening once all shrouds in place.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[egkb]

Looking Good Jason, sorry but I can't be of any help re your questions, I haven't gotten that far ahead yet, and my new builds are probably too small to have any of those rope/shroud issues, not too many catharpins on schooners I feel (one benefit of not having 'Tops' )

 

Sláinte,

 

Eamonn

 

PS Photos look great to me!

[molasses]

Hope someone can help with a list of questions:

1. Instructions indicate that the futtock stave should be made with 1mm brass wire.  What would this have been made of on actual ship, would it have had rope wrapped around it like serving or puddening?
2. Would people advise to attach the futtock stave before doing ratlines - seems that it might hold the shrouds a little more in place
3. What dictated whether stretchers were attached (or not), and would these have been attached 'permanently', in as much as anything would be permanent.
4. Would catharpins have been so attached so as to deflect the shrouds inwards at the futtock staves, or would the line of the shrouds be maintained?

 

1.  Darcy Lever in The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor says:  "The Futtock Stave is sometimes made of rope, served, and sometimes of wood; and it is only seized to those shrouds which are to be catharpinned in."

2.  Makes sense to me. It's also the way they were done for real.

3.  Also from Lever:  "A piece of wood, called a Stretcher, or Squaring Staff, is seized to the shrouds, just above the Dead Eyes, athwart the whole of them; which keeps them from twisting, and makes the lanyards lie fairly."

4.  Again from Lever, one of the steps in the directions for rigging the catharpins:  "The Shrouds are then bowsed in..."  According to Lever the primary purpose of catharpins was to stiffen the arrangement of futtocks attached to shrouds and futtock stave and to keep the lee shrouds from sagging when the ship heeled. Secondary purpose was to provide clearance for the lower yard to brace up sharper allowing the ship to lie closer to the wind. It is not known if Snake had the catharpins rigged per Royal Navy practice (the outer shrouds not rigged with catharpins) or per merchant practice (with a catharpin on all the shrouds). Snake was built in a private shipyard (as were all un-rated vessels at that time) and could have had the catharpins rigged either way.

[Sjors]

Hi Jason,

 

It looks if you have done this before !

Amazing good !

And they give you the answers.....nice !

 

[jim_smits]

Fantastic looking work Jason.

 

Can't quite tell by looking at the pictures but did you cross the shroud line above the deadeye and knot together or did you simply siexe the two ends side by side?

 

I crossed all of mine, and I can tell you it was really difficult to keep the deadeye in position and secure the shroud in place with it crossed.....

[Blue Ensign]

Neat work Jason, the top looks  great.

 

Re the deadeye seizing; in practice the line was crossed behind the shroud on the port side and forward of the shroud starboard side. and secured with a throat seizing. The deadeye lanyards passed through the bight so formed between the deadeye and the shroud seizing before being secured.

 

It is an added complication and at smaller scale may not be considered worth the effort; I use a temporary seizing close to the deadeye to hold it in place whilst I do the proper seizing.

 

The Futtock stave was made of rope but for modelling purposes I think brass rod served with line gives a better security for the futtocks whilst maintaining a reasonably  genuine look.

 

I'm not sure that the 'stretcher' or 'squaring' staff referred to in the post above featured on British warships of the period., but certainly sheer poles were commonly seen on ships of the mid nineteenth century; clippers such as the Cutty Sark come to mind.

 

I think attaching the Futtock Stave  before rattlin' down  is a good idea, as is the initial fitting of a few ratlines at intervals to help maintain the shroud line. There is an ever present danger of pulling the shrouds out of line and anything to counter this must help.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Beef Wellington]

Thanks so much for the info everyone.  Think I'll leave off the 'stretcher'.

 

Jim - I didn't bother with the crossing or the knots as per instructions, I tried multiple times and just couldn't get happy and found this worked for me. I'm hoping that by the time that the deadeye lanyard is finished off it'll be even less noticeable.  Not sure exactly how I'll do that as the first ratline is right on top of the deadeye - do you have any pics from your Snake how you tacked these so they don't interfere.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[jim_smits]

To be honest I haven't tied the ratlines down to the deadeye as I can't decide if it will look any good or not....

[aliluke]

Your rigging is looking superb Jason. Serving seems well worth the effort and I will attempt it when I get there - a while away. What machine do you use or did you make your own?

 

Cheers

Alistair

[NMBROOK]

Wonderfully neat clean work Jason!!

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[Beef Wellington]

Alistair - I bought the serving maching made by Alexey on this site, I can't compare it to others but it seem to do the job and is plenty sturdy.  He seems to have received a lot of positive comments from many users of this site.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1594-serving-machine-20-not-just-serves-ropes/

[Beef Wellington]

Well, its been a little longer than I had I thought.  I got into a bit of a funk with a couple of aspects of the rigging and felt myself forcing things - so decided to take a bit of a break.  I think I got lucky with my first mouse, replicating it proved to be rather challenging but decided to make them all in one go so they are as consistent as can be (why don't any manufacturers make mice?).  

 

Not much to report, but I am back in the shipyard at least...I do still want to try and capture each step in order for future reference, so apologize if this is less than thrilling.

 

Maintop with main and preventer stays in place...

 

Main and preventer stays attached to their respective hearts.  Did not serve around the stays where they rub against the fore-mast as would have been done.  I didn't  use the supplied 1.25mm line as supplied as it seemed a little too thick and out of scal, instead going with some 'officially' 1.3mm Caldercraft line which in reality was slightly thinner than the supplied 1.25mm stuff.  This proved to be a 'fuzzy'  nightmare but once in place I brushed with dilute PVA and they seem to have been banished.

 

The lashing of the hearts was done with  fake splice to the lower heart (although believe this maybe should have been to the upper heart) and then seizing the other end to the lashing.  The hearts have circular holes, I'd recommend flattening off the lower side so the lashing sits better, as it is, I found this quite tricky to look right.

 

[Sjors]

That's beautiful rigging Jason,

 

I'm happy that I have no mouse on the Fonz   

When do you get started on the ratlines ?

 

[The Sailor]

That looks very nice Jason.

[Mirabell61]

Very nice build Jason,

 

splended Job also on the deck planking, well done !

 

Nils

[clloyd]

Nice Jason. 

 

Hearts were one item I chucked out of the bounty kit and made my own - circular holes were one of the reasons I did that.

 

Colin

[Beef Wellington]

When do you get started on the ratlines ?

 

Sjors - ratlines are in progress, hopefully something to report soon...

[Sjors]

You make me curious about them.....

I'll be waiting for pictures   

 

[hamilton]

Love that shot along the deck - features your fine craftsmanship very well!

hamilton

[texxn5]

Really nice Jason, thanks for the photos. Inspiring as usual.

[NMBROOK]

Some very very neat work on the rigging Jason  

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[Beef Wellington]

Thanks for all the likes and comments, definitely keeps one going.

 

Just a few progress pics on the ratlines.  Judging from the majority of comments, these seem to be one of the most disliked steps and maybe one of the last major hurdles for a first build (after planking, coppering, rigging carronades).  All said, I'm pleasantly surprised and actually finding this a quite enjoyable.  But lets be clear, my results are far from perfect, but passable I think.  Obviously work still to do.  Although natural line seems to be in vogue, found this a little distracting so went with black glacee thread close to the needed dimension.  Overall, pretty happy for a first effort.

 

Lessons learned for next time:

1. Masts and shrouds should be built and mocked up prior to identifying the line of the chains.  Not too noticeable, but my 'rough and ready' method didn't take account of the actual lie of the shrouds over the tops and resulted in some of the chains not lining up as well as could be with final shroud placement
2. I hate to blame materials, but I suspect that aftermarket ropes would result in big visual improvements and build enjoyment vs the standard supplied stuff which never seems consistent in size, shape or 'roughness'.  My mind is absolutely made up that additional cost is probably worth it.
3. The tops and the channels are not parallel, although it looks best (IMHO) if the ratlines are parallel to the top and the channel where they meet, its pretty simple to slightly adjust the ratlines to achieve this in between.

 

4mm spare walnut strips were used to 'clamp' the shrouds and provide the correct spacing (found that sitting these on top of the knots below and tying next set on top resulted in the almost exact spacing needed.  This technique helped a lot!

 

Overhand knots were used on first and final shroud as these seemed least bulky, I just couldn't get the cow hitch to work well for me, maybe next time...Snakes's channels are mounted very high so a ratline is needed right on top of the deadeyes.  This means that deadeye lashings make most sense 'sitting' on top of the deadeyes as I've seen in a few photos of the real thing (not prettily lashed to the shroud).  I also wanted to try and get a little natural sag into these, results are proving to be mixed, but adjusting is easy once in place to try to get close to desired look.

 

 

And the current state...quite the mess with all the untrimmed ends

Edited March 2, 2014 by Beef Wellington

[realworkingsailor]

Looks like you've pretty well mastered rattling. Very well done.

 

Andy

[Blue Ensign]

Nic shots of Snake Jason, I like the look of models with just the lower masts and standing rigging in place. The ratlines look good to me and your clamping arrangement should also help guard against pulling the shrouds out of line.

 

B.E.

[scott larkins]

_{Really nice work}

[NAZGÛL]

Jason, what a woderful build! Very classy work. I also love that yóu build with your son. I do the same with my sons. Great times together.

 

 

/Matti

[drtrap]

Fine work, congrats Jason !!

[jastrząb]

Thanks for showing this useful tool to do the ratlines

 

You've reached a nice outcome of your work. Nicely done.

Cheers,

Paweł