HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[SJSoane]

Hi Alan,

Maybe take photos to the meeting?

I am in awe of you doing a fully framed model. There are more pieces in motion at any given time than I ever had to deal with. And yours is looking great!

Mark

[druxey]

Once your frames are set, glue temporary spacers between them near the sheer line. It will immediately solidify the framework and minimize the possibility of breakage.

[AON]

Yes Druxey, you told me this last year for the aft cant frames and I did not forget.

I am reluctant to do this until I have them all done and I am reasonably happy with the locations... as I might need to remove some to adjust before sanding (fairing).

As you described, I find the aft frames are quite stiff now.

[AON]

 

Thought about taking pictures (yet again) but people don't come to the meetings to look at pictures.

 

So today I made a carrying board which goes inside a cardboard box.  As time goes on and things get taller I'll make a plywood box.

 

I screwed two runners along the length on the underside for stiffness and added to pull ropes passing through holes in the plywood base with stopper knots (figure eight knot) so I can lift it out of the cardboard box.

 

I did not invent this.  One of the more skilled members of our local club made himself one... so I copied him.

[AON]

here is a picture of our club members ship model carrying/travel box.

He had to add an extension to the front for the bowsprit!

The ship is mounted to a pull out board similar to the one I built above.

Edited November 9, 2019 by AON

[AON]

Well the trip to the monthly club meeting, this time held at Lee Valley Tools in Niagara Falls, was a complete success.  The ship made it there and back without any damage. She is back on the build table now.

 

My presentation on DIGITALLY PHOTOGRAPHING SCALE MODELS was well received, or so I was told.  If anyone is interested in downloading a PDF copy just visit our club website (Model Shipwrights of Niagara address below in my signature line) and go to our BLOG page.  Scroll down a wee bit and it is there.

[Sailor1234567890]

I think Lee Valley is my favourite store. Extremely happy we have one here in Halifax. If ever I'm posted to a community without one I'll miss browsing their display room. 

[Mark P]

Thanks Alan, not just for the continuing build log, but also for the photography article. 

 

Full of good advice. Wish I could have been there!

 

As for having a meeting in a tool store: a very canny move on somebody's part! I really, really wish I could have been there!

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[Worldway]

Hi Allen, just reviewing your build.  Everything is looking amazing but I doubt if you would get the prize for the fastest build 😀.  I appreciate your will to get everything right.  Congratulations on your perseverance and determination.  Lets do coffee sometime, I would love to catch up.

[AON]

Good evening Derek

Yes... I move at a snails pace.  One reason is because I have far too many interests and each takes a bite of my time.  The last has been yet one more issue with my home computer that has lost me the access to my copy of Inventor (3D modelling) from my last employer.  I am test driving Inventor LT which I think will do what I want/need for the next few years.

I also removed yet more frames that were not quite right.

I (we) are so fortunate to be so close to a couple great talents.  I had lunch with one of them the other day and his words of encouragement meant so much.

I've said to all that care to listen that this will likely be the only ship I build.  Need time to enjoy my retirement... like scratching noise from the strings of my violin.

I like coffee, tea, jamiesons.  Give me a call and we will work it out.

Take care.

A.

Edited November 22, 2019 by AON

[AON]

Looking back at the last week I cannot believe how many of the forward cant frames I've removed, adjusted, and reset.  It is almost as if I made the whole thing three times.  I am happy to say I have everything tiddly now. 

 

Last week I had lunch with one of our local club members and discussed a problem I was having and some solutions I had come up with and the new problems they introduced.  Of course this was an issue he had dealt with a millennium ago and he described his simple solution for which I have attached the photo below.  The problem is that I can use a square to align the outboard edge of a frame with the plan below on the build board and I can use tape to mark the height of the top of the frame, but I just couldn't seem to get the top of the frame to properly align with the plan on the build board.  His solution was to simply draw a line on the frame support.  Put the line on the inside or outside of the top of the frame on the plan below and position the top of said frame with the same line above.  So simple.  Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.  I lightly drew multiple lines equally spaced to give me options. In the photo below the top of my frame aligns on the inboard edge with the line and the plan below.

Four and a half frames to go before the spacer chocks go in between them, and then I bolt all the first futtock frames pieces to the keel (wooden bolts for strength in the joint).

 

I had one decision I've been putting off.  Some time ago I asked about bolting patterns as each scarph joint is supposed to be three bolts per the contract.  Druxey had suggested a triangle pattern, but I had found a sketch in a modelling book with a diagonal pattern.  Had it been an historical photo or Admiralty drawing I would have marched forward with it.  I admit it seems most logical to me as no bolts are near another that might cause the wood to split.  At that time I had decided to only use two bolts diagonally and ponder on it some more.  I could easily add the third between those two before fairing.... or I leave it at two and call it a day.  I have decided to leave it at two as it is more trouble than it is worth.  At full scale there is a lot of room, but at 1:64 it is rather tight. 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by AON

[cog]

I see a lot of space between frame #6 and #7 from the left ... you are certain you did tidy up sufficiently? A forth time can't do any harm ... will keep you busy though

 

Very crisp work Alan. I presume thebolt  pattern you refer to is on the same timber, not joining timbers?

[AON]

If you look at the plan below that frame (R4) has a large gap on both sides.  I was going to deal with it's spacing with the chocks between frames but it is off and back on now.

 

The bolts are in the scarph joint (outboard to inboard) not between station frames (forward/aft).

A.

Edited November 23, 2019 by AON

[Trussben]

Nice progress, I did the same thing when raising the cant frames on Pegasus by taking the frame line off the plans and putting it on the support, really helped dial in the position much better.

 

ben

[AON]

So much happening.

 

It took a while, but after having looked at it from every angle, and realizing all my guide marks would eventually be chipped away... then getting some words of encouragement, I started removing material from the block of Costello that with some prayers will hopefully become my ship's figurehead.  I was told to imagine a cloth draped over the finished part... now remove everything up to the cloth.  Then with the help of the maquette to visualize the finished part, remove everything else.

 

I have also had to deal with my 3D program loss.   It was from my last employer for working at home (you are allowed to copies), but since I am retired now I cannot re-register the copy I had.  So I am test driving Inventor LT 2020 - paid annual subscription required (which does not allow assemblies as the full version does but you can import other parts as blocks into a part to essentially create an assembly.. see screen capture below... I rebuilt my hull assembly in about 20 minutes), and Fusion 360 for hobbyists - free version (an Autodesk program which is very similar to Inventor ... same people make it).  It is suppose to open Inventor parts but so far I have had no success with it.  If anyone has experience with Fusion 360 I could use some directions.  I will post this elsewhere on the forum.

 

I've also purchased an upgrade to my music sheet creation/playing program but it doesn't work properly either.  Why do these guys release these upgrades before they are ready?  Oh yeh... they want your money.

 

I am presently assembling my last forward cant frame (P1 at 0.9° offset) and will install P-aft and P-fwd prior to adding the spacer chocks between frames to stiffen it up as Druxey advised.  Then I will pin the heels of the 1st futtocks to the deadwood with treenail type pins in lieu of the monofilament bolts as I want the extra strength... again as recommended by Druxey.

 

I've read that if making treenails from round bamboo skewers, they should be cut square (remove the round edges) by way of two cutters clamped between a spacer block in a vise. So that will be one more thing to McGiver.

Edited November 28, 2019 by AON

[AON]

Should have also mentioned I purchased #6-32 threaded rod, hex nuts and flat washers a Lowes in Niagara Falls on Tuesday. This will be to mount the model to the build board through the keel, but I will do this after sanding the cant frames which at my pace may be next year.

 

Right Derek?

 

Have to repair my uncles coffee table first.

[AON]

All forward cant frames are installed.  I have P-forward and P-aft (both square frames) to install before I move to the next stage.

P-fwd is cut and glued.

P-aft is cut and the foot is assembled tested, adjusted and finally dry fit.  Now I can complete gluing it together.

Hope to be installing frame spacer chocks by Thursday so I can bring it back to our club meeting this Sunday.

Edited December 2, 2019 by AON

[SJSoane]

Alan, I will be interested to see you you get on with Fusion 360. I played around with it for a while, but did not have much success making actual ship hull parts.

 

Mark

[AON]

I am still assessing the two programs (Fusion 360 versus Inventor LT 2020).  With out the assembly of parts option I will have to build my assembly in a part file which will be a change in thinking.  Like stepping back to the days of pencil and paper.

[AON]

I have installed P-forward and P-aft.  Now I start putting spacer chocks in.

 

[druxey]

Now you are making progress!

[Worldway]

Seriously looking good Alan.  I'm impressed with what you've accomplished

[AON]

Why thank you Derek.

 

When I started I estimated this would take about 10 years.  🤔

 

You may start the clock now.  😉

[AON]

Spent a few more hours today doodling with the free Fusion 360 hobbyist version and the test drive of Inventor LT.

 

Discovered fusion refers to mates as joints and I can easily create a fusion 360 assembly from stp files of my inventor parts.

 

I may become a convert yet.

[SJSoane]

Can't wait to see how you make Fusion work. You clearly have considerable expertise in this matter!

Mark

[AON]

Thank you Mark but you give me far more credit for my actual skill level than I deserve.  Practically every other designer I've had the pleasure to be associated with had thousands more practical hours at it then I, and were far more proficient... this is what comes from moving into lower level management!

 

Well, after more time than I care to admit, I completed a 3D nameplate in Fusion 360 that I will attempt to print in PLA-wood filament.

Hope it looks half decent for a first attempt when done.

 

Although there is a learning curve I believe the free Fusion 360 program will work fine for me and fill my needs.

 

With some more practise over time I should become as quick as I am attempting to type this out with all my fingers as learnt early in High School many MANY years ago, as opposed to the mere two fingers that got me through the final years of employment after computers entered the work force.

Edited December 8, 2019 by AON

[Worldway]

Allen, I'm curious if the Fusion program would generate a file that could be used on a 3D printer?  I know the local library has a 3D printer although I'm not sure if there is a cost to use it.  It could come in handy for intricate parts.

[AON]

Derek, the answer is yes.

I've used the WPL main branch 3D printer for my 1:12 scale 9 pdr gun barrel which is another build log on the forum here.

The charge $0.00 (free) to print but inticate parts might be a disappointment.

One of the fellows in our local club has a 3D printer that will do it.  He printed all my gun barrels for this build (3 different sizes) at 1:64 scale.

[AON]

Recovering from my last (reoccurring) eye injection on Tuesday Morning so I cannot go into my shop as I must avoid dusty environments... So it will wait a couple more days.

 

I went to our local club meeting on Sunday and took my model and 6-32 threaded rod and hex nuts with the specific intention of discussing the mounting pedestal locations as I was concerned the holes and captive pockets for the hex nuts would go right into a scarph joint through the keel.

 

Luckily both of the guys I hoped to talk too were there.  It was suggested that since I had a drawing/3D model, I might add the lower masts, bowsprit and jib boom, then add the mounting pedestal/bolts and move them about until it looks proper.  I was also told not to worry so much about going through a scarph joint as everything else on her will make her structurally sound in the end.

 

I still want to avoid the scarph joints.... so I modelled it up and here it is.

 

Another fellow suggested I visit a model shop and get some 6-32 blind nuts to insert into the keel rather than cut out pockets for a modified hex nut.

So I may be doing this next week... or possibly looking at steel rivet nuts.

[Sailor1234567890]

Use bronze for anything that shows. It's green patina that eventually appears is great.