HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

[dafi]

Some more tinkering around happened ...

 

Some 0,6 mm brass wire was bend on the template ...

... cut open ...

...collected ...

... alined ...

... and looks ok.

Then soldered with homeopathic dosages of solder ...

 

https://www.mediaharmonists.de/bilder/Sammler31/Victory-1765-Channel-irons_4796.jpg[/img]

 

... and blackened.

XXXDAn
 

Edited August 16, 2019 by dafi

[Morgan]

Hi Dafi,

 

Concerning bronze cannon Bugler at page 21 says “It is also interesting to note that by 1790 all brass ordnance had been succeeded by cast iron throughout the Navy and it is very likely that the last remaining brass ordnance in the Victory was discarded during this repair (1788)”. Not definitive but opens the possibility of brass cannon up to this point.

 

Gary

 

 

[Morgan]

Also, and I have to re-find the reference, he mentions that prior to the 1800 refit the 32 Pounders were of the old type, by which I presume he means the pattern that preceded the Blomfeld, in which case there would be a noticeable difference on your dummy barrels muzzle swell. He also thinks they may have been on at Trafalgar but we know this is not the case as we can trace them to 1803 and some remain on board.

 

Gary

[dafi]

Hello druxey and Gary,

 

thank you for the input, always important to have this kind of questions and corrections.

 

I was going through a lot of my sources lately and found the same kind of statement like Bugler´s at AOTS McKay, that made me believe some years ago, that the brass cannons were used on the Vic until this date. But he is even more vague about it. Now reading it more aware-fully, he also could have expressed that in general all the brass guns were replaced by the 1790ies.

 

On the other hand he states that it is possible that before 1782 the Vic still had brass guns, without specifying if all of the guns or only the larger calibers.

As McKay is largely based on Bugler, I would strongly guess, that he based his opinion upon Bugler´s book.

 

I also remember a newer input after the discovery of the 1737 Victory, that this ship was the last major ship being fitted with an all brass ordnance. Did not locate the source again yet, but also do believe that this was in a video or news section, and do not know the quality of the sources that this statement was based on.

 

All my other sources so far do not give a statement upon the gun´s material prior to 1782/1788.

 

Cheers, Daniel

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by dafi

[druxey]

It is very doubtful that Victory of 1765 had brass ordnance. The previous Victory of 1737 certainly did - she was fully armed with brass - but all that was lost when she went down. (Perhaps this has created the confusion, with two ships of the same name?) Very few guns have been salvaged: most are on the sea bed. The cost of brass vs iron was considerable, and the government was not about to sink large amounts into more brass!

[dafi]

Thank you druxey. I am with you. But I wonder about the sources of Bugler and McKay.

 

At least the Vic of 1737 was not found yet at the date of the release of their books, so less confusion then.

 

XXXDAn

Edited August 16, 2019 by dafi

[Morgan]

Dafi,

 

If you wanted to pin it down there are The National Archives, under ADM 160 (and sub-divisions) Ordnance Office, but it would be a hell of a search through the letters sections unfortunately, there seems to be no single returns book as there was from 1803 onwards.  Chances are that most of the guns stayed with her from refit to refit as they were set aside when taken out, so the 32 Pounders are probably the same ones from 1788 onwards through to Trafalgar and beyond. They were all made by Walker & Co..

 

The reference I mentioned earlier I would look for was from ARMING THE ROYAL NAVY, 1793-1815: THE OFFICE OF ORDNANCE AND THE STATE by Gareth Cole, he states “Victory herself appears to have been armed with old pattern cannon” and then provides the reference “An Account of Iron Ordnance on Board of His Majesty's Ship Victory, Chatham. 28th April 1803', TNA ADM 160/ 154. Although, it is not known if these were replaced in the summer of 1805 while she was at Portsmouth”.  We know from the 1803 and 1807 returns (the ones I sent you) that they were the same throughout, so we know they were iron, and probably date to at least 1788.  If these were the old pattern guns, probably Armstrong, they may have stayed until the refit in the 1810’s. A comparison with Armstrong / Bloomfield pattern guns and those on the deck lower deck of the Victory would tell you which ones they actually were if you want to go that deep into it.

 

Gary

[dafi]

Once the irons being fixed one can see the difference in V1 to the actual version. As the first build just developed without further planing, it was not possible to fix all the irons properly as for the ports, so it was good to have a fall back version and to start anew 🙂

 

 

 

An after all this fiddling with the small tiny chain links it was good to fix something bigger in a decent size ...

 

 

... the port for the main tack, the batten for the channel board being fixed, some ringbolts to straighten the shrouds and the missing port lids ...

 

 

... splashed some paint ...

 

 

 

... the side half door lids with the painted frieze ...

 

 

 

... and the very elegant conduct of the lifting halliard of the foremost gun port lid 🙂

 

 

 

XXXDAn

Edited August 17, 2019 by dafi

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Hy Daniel - the cornice on the gunport lids were painted in the Vic-1st edition? Okay for the horizontal shared door I can understand as the cornice will block the doorsides to be fully opened.  But usual gunport lid? I thought the cornide will be applied over the hinges du to keep the elegant lines alive.

 

Or am I wrong coming to this idea from with my point of view of the French baroque side of shipbuilding?

[dafi]

Hello Christian, 

 

I am following the contemporary model of 1765and this is how it is done there. I had a fast look onto other models, there much more often the fake frieze was even omitted, leaving a wooden square in the colored ground ...

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Final sprint in view 🙂

 

Take a sprue, drill a hole and ...

 

 

... heat it up and pull 🙂

 

 

After some tries I had suitable tubes of 0,7 mmm outside and 0,3 mm inside. Alined them on 0,3 mm wire to be able to cut without smashing them by rolling under a knife.

 

 

Drilled some 0,75 mm in the right angle into the ship ...

 

 

... and glue the tubes in with a wire still as handling help.

 

 

Checked the angle and checked the opening with a needle, then still applied some paint nice name "rotten leather" ;-).

 

 

Then fixing the halliards, to unravel the thread did not work as they were too thin ...

 

 

... so held the thread tight onto a round edge and usied a sharpened needle in the right angle. Works rather easy ...

 

 

... prepared the ringbolt ...

 

 

... threaded the bold and lead the free part of the thread through the eye of the needle, pulled ...

 

 

... and a second go for the splice, some glue and - DONE !!!

 

 

The port lids are waiting already 🙂

 

XXXDAn

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Thank you that is very interesting, Daniel.

Interestingly on

L'AURORE 1766 the hole gunport framing is painted on the hull. (Cannot shift the pic 90°)

On the other hand the cravings aft are astonishing

in detail and caftmanswork.

 

Something I do not understand - why this detailing was done there and wasn't invested somewhere else?

 

 

 

 

(All pictures from: G.Decacroix Corvette L'AURORE 1766 - 1775 Ancre/Paris 2000)

Edited August 18, 2019 by Heinrich der Seefahrer

[Heinrich der Seefahrer]

Hello Daniel,

creative attack on that problem. Wounderfully made parts!

 

And to keep things easier: Cutton buds do have plastic rods that stay as a pipeline if you get them lengthened over a flame - so the drilling before is not necessary. (It is an important tip from the Wingnut Wings website due to the rigging.)

 

Hth.

[dafi]

Thank you, this is where I got the basic idea from 🙂 

 

But using the sprue I can choose the basic color and also can specify the ratio from internal to external diameter, as this one stays the same throughout the procedure.

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Made the missing lids ...

 

 

... drilled the holes for the hinge ...

 

 

... fixed with the necessary distance ...

 

 

... and put in the lanyards.

 

 

 

The half port lids need extra distance as fort the moulding. 

 

 

So the hinges are quite far out.

 

 

Also put in the lanyards. 

 

 

Coming close to the finishing line 🙂

 

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

And one more piece finished 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The material of the guns is still in discussion. Did the Vici n 1782 still have brass guns - as Bugler and McKay see as a possibility - or did she have already iron ones. As discussed before, I will keep you updated.

 

So that was no. 2 out of four being ready now. Approx. 1780 and 1920 are done, 1805 and 2018 still to follow.

 

 

Cheers, dafi

[dafi]

On the road again, meeting Viccies, seeing colors that I´ve never seen ...

 

Adapted the color of the 2018 version a bit. Funny, like the original, it reacts very much upon the light. Looks different every time ...

 

 

 

Fixed the board that protects the hammock cranes from underneath. 🙂

 

 

 

Cheers, XXXDAn

[dafi]

Finally took the time to continue a bit.

 

Here are the parts again, that I prepared some time ago 🙂

 

 

Still work in progress, have to clean up, apply some paint and the batten on the channel board.

 

 

XXXDAn[/quote]
 

[amateur]

Although I like your little parts, I start wondering: when (if ever) will work on the 'main model' continue??

 

Jan

[shipman]

Totally absorbed by all of this. Dafi can do no wrong.

[amateur]

No, the fun starts when/where he is doing something wrong

He will do more research, rips down his wrongs, and start all-over.  

 

Jan

Edited October 14, 2019 by amateur

[dafi]

Soon again looking for something wrong to amuse you a bit 🙂

 

Until then, the rest is "done by the paint" ...

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Do not have too much time to busyness commitments. So even small things deserve a small accolade for personal encouragement.

A new gun port lid ... 

 

 

... and got from a comrade a wire 1,5 mm outer diameter and 0,5 mm inner diameter, so the small protection for the lid lanyards can be done more easily.

 

 

 

 

 

And the hammock stanchions are fixed too ...

 

 

 

... and a little later were knocked down - of course  :-0

 

Also the chains suffered a bit, but my experience tells me that that is easily to be done 🙂

 

XXXDAn

[amateur]

Question: will you repaint your 'main model' into this new colour?

 (actually, I am starting to like the new looks and colours: far more subtle than the Maya die Biene-version)

 

Jan

[dafi]

Hello Jan,

 

no the big one is too late for that, even though I already have a reminiscence for that, get surprised ...

 

... in some years or so 😉

 

For the small 2017-slice, I adapted as far as I can judge. Even with all the help from the friends here including the color samples, the color is still quite miraculous to me, as its appearance changes a lot through the light and shades. Have to see it one day with my own eyes to be able to understand it completely.

 

But not to let you down dear Jan, I will soon take out the wrecking ball and ELIMINATE a part that needs to be replaced, funnily one of the parts that is "original kit" - More soon.

 

XXXDAn

[popeye the sailor]

top notch work Daniel  

[dafi]

Thanx Popeye!

 

And on we go:

Fixed the hammock nettings on a cardboard and paint them white and buffy colors. 

 

 

Then first the short side, using paper for the netting not to get stuck on the stanchions and small wooden sticks to press the nettings down properly.

 

 

Then the long side. Paper again to facilitate the insertion, then fixing the netting with superglue onto the stanchions. 

 

 

To have a better perceptibility I introduced some darker paper and fitted the nettings to correct size with a very pointed scissors.

 

 

For the adrenaline not to go down too much, I user a lighter´s flame to get rid of some excess superglue :-0

 

 

As all parts survived the procedure, the upper holding rope was fixed and the netting glued onto it 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the meantime - using some drying time - I also fixed some ringbolts of the 1805 version on the channel boards ...

 

 

... and fixed the boards onto my slice.

 

 

All the best, dafi

Edited November 24, 2019 by dafi

[druxey]

Will you tone down the netting a bit later, dafi?

[dafi]

Hy druxey,

 

even though difficult to see, this netting is already a quite dirty white just like the Vic today in P. The original 1805 version will be much more a natural hemp color 😉

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Nothing new from me, but a fun and good read 😉

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10455141/visitors-to-nelsons-hms-victory-complain-it-is-too-cramped-and-they-keep-bumping-their-heads/

 

XXXDAn