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HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

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43 minutes ago, dafi said:

do not forget that we all here are rivet counters and the job the curators did since 1920 really succeeded in bringing the feeling of the old seafarers to the "normal" people, to keep the history alive, no matter all the details we say "THEY" did "WRONG". 

I agree, I very much doubt people would have been inspired by a true 1805 wartime Victory reconstruction, such an austere brooding apparition would not have the grace or beauty of the ship as she is, the 1920’s reconstruction whilst not accurate certainly brings the crowds flocking.

 

That said I’ll be looking to build as true an 1805 version when the Amati 1:64 kit becomes available.

 

Fot those who haven’t seen the NMM 1803 half block model the here it is, this is a fair approximation of what she would have looked like.

 

GaryEAD0E695-5BEA-49D8-8BBC-8FF41FD2C8FF.thumb.jpeg.e6f6416694e7bf5b6d4a8de51e7f430f.jpeg

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On 1/7/2019 at 2:29 PM, Morgan said:

I agree, I very much doubt people would have been inspired by a true 1805 wartime Victory reconstruction, such an austere brooding apparition would not have the grace or beauty of the ship as she is, the 1920’s reconstruction whilst not accurate certainly brings the crowds flocking.

 

That said I’ll be looking to build as true an 1805 version when the Amati 1:64 kit becomes available.

 

Fot those who haven’t seen the NMM 1803 half block model the here it is, this is a fair approximation of what she would have looked like.

 

GaryEAD0E695-5BEA-49D8-8BBC-8FF41FD2C8FF.thumb.jpeg.e6f6416694e7bf5b6d4a8de51e7f430f.jpeg

Thank you Gary, as a good example for the possible color - I always saw this as white and not the creamy tint that it actually is - I would just renew my suspicion about the identification of the model. 

 

See https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6044-wrong-identified-models-of-hms-victory-in-nmm/&do=findComment&comment=175377

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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Hi Dafi,

 

I was really highlighting the general appearance and colour scheme as matching what Victory looked like rather than proposing this being a specific facsimile, in fact the colour scheme is closer to Turner’s Trafalgar painting than any other I’ve seen (bearing in mind he produced 2 versions and the colours vary between the two which doesn’t help).

 

I also know the reservations you have over the 1803 half block and the 1805 models, and I’ve also superimposed the Victory plans and see the mismatches, however I’m not hung up over this, I’m inclined to view these post-build models as an aesthetic aid rather than an accurate structural record.  I think this is particularly true of the 1803 model, as the date of the development of the model probably pre-dates the refit. So in my opinion these are not ‘as-built models’, but rather designed to convey an idea of the desired changes or modifications in general.

 

Certainly the 1805 model has greater credibility, and interestingly both Lavery and Goodwin reference this model as representing the intended appearance of the Victory post refit, however they also accept that the full intention of the refit was cut short and not completed, hence the differences on the stern in particular.

 

Also, have you looked at the Union and Boyne plans at the NMM? These were developed from the lines of the Victory, and the 1803 refit was intended to establish the re-fitted Victory as the prototype for future Second Rates. 

 

I also know you reference the issues with the entry port, and the 1805 model shows no entry port, whereas the 1803 model does, as do the Union plans, however, my preference is to rely on artists contemporary sketches, I know Turner has previously been referenced, but neither Constable nor Pocock show an entry port. I accept the issues with plans and models and intention vs. as-built, and I also accept the issues with the painters ‘stylised’ approach. But I think their sketches are believable as these are just  raw ‘data capture’, the contentious issues arise with the subsequent paintings.  It is highly unlikely that 3 such marine artists all missed a prominent feature, given they all saw her first hand between 1803 and 1806. 

 

Gary

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Do not worry Gary, I got it absolutely right what your intention was and I am always very thankful of well founded informations.

 

I only point out the suspected mislabeling on a regular base, as we already had a lot of discussions on other details like the number of the stern windows of theses models as they proves that the Vic in P. is completely wrong in theses aspects ...

 

Some details of the 1803 block model can also be observed in the turner drawings like the carvings on the cutwater 🙂

 

Cheers, Daniel

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Found some time to tinker a bit on that exotic gem 🙂

 

Got a signal gun - one of 6 on the ship for salutes - and one historical barrel. The rest will be windows. The gun is a self made brass one made in my Dremel to give it a slightly conical shape. Also the chainboards with the accurate number and position for the irons is there together with the small port that gives access to the shrouds.

 

Victory-1920-190125_2728.jpg

 

Victory-1920-190125_2731.jpg

 

Victory-1920-190125_2730.jpg

 

A child that only a mom is able to love - or a dafi 😉

 

XXXDAn

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Thank you all for Comments and likes, very appreciated!

 

All figures are Preiser 1:100. See in earlier posts how they were made :-)

 

Somehow Fast-Food-Tinkering does not work for me somehow.

 

I already started planking the outside with poly but could not find a pattern for the width of the planks - Frustration taking over ...

 

Then I realised that as I cutted the ports "free hand - first sight" was the problem, as the planks are following - unlike the 1765 original planking - exactely the row of the ports. So considered a second (or even more look) to get things straight and realised taht all planks have more or less same width. So I took the illustrtion programm and started to push the measures until it fitted the photographs and suddenly it all worked out. 21 cm planks it was what I needed and some correction on the ports.

 

Victory-190306_2947b.jpg

 

Also Business as usual - removing the first trial of planks :-)

 

Victory-190224_2934.jpg

 

New planks were cut ...

 

Victory-190224_2935.jpg

 

... ports newly defined ...

 

Victory-190301_2938.jpg

 

... cleared with plenty of blood, sweat and tears ...

 

Victory-190303_2939.jpg

 

.... and cut free.

 

Just see on the inside of the ports the difference to the first fit :-O

 

Victory-190306_2943.jpg

 

Fixed the first goodies, soon more about that :-)

 

Victory-190306_2947.jpg

 

And here we go, twice the same section of hull, just a bit more than 100 years of difference.

 

XXXDAn

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I'd like to pick up on an earlier point about color (post #1687). Specifically, the comment about Turner's paintings. As we know, Turner was obsessed with the effects of light and atmosphere. Now, what he was recording was a perception of color. Objects have a specific color, called local color by artists. Depending on the quality of light falling on an object its apparent color as we perceive it changes.

 

For instance, think of a 'red' ball. Its surface properties will reflect the red wavelengths of the visible light spectrum and absorb the others. So, the ball appears red under white light or red light. Both varieties of light contain the red part of the spectrum. However, shine green light on it and it will appear dark brown. Very little light is reflected as the red portion of the spectrum is missing in green light.

 

So, Turner was playing with color as it is perceived under different lighting conditions. He was not concerned with ship modelers 200 years later! Which color in his paintings is 'correct', then? Neither and both!

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Thank you Druxey. Also he simply did not bother about the facts, just see the "Fighting Temeraire" on her last journey, masts still up. 

 

But anywhere we had a great discussion on our german forum about his work concerning the Vic. Highly interesting. Those who are inscribed to our forum see here:

HMS Victory - Spurensuche

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t7001f1475-HMS-Victory-nach-Trafalgar-ein-letzter-Zeuge.html

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t6980f1475-Turners-Deckszeichnungen-der-Victory-reloaded.html#msg152838

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t5671f1475-William-Turner-quot-The-Victory-From-Quarterdeck-to-Poop-quot.html

 

Please find the translate button on the left bottom corner 🙂 

 

XXXDAn

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I agree with Druxey’s comments.  By way of example I purchased some enamel paint mixed to the recently identified Victory colours, and the tonal range of the tan / salmon pink / [insert your own description here!] under different lighting conditions is extreme. You can see why it has received such varied reviews from the public.  The enamel is only 5% gloss, so low sheen, however I then put a satin varnish on the samples and the tonal range changes yet again as it reacts to light - last photo.

 

The black is also that identified by the scientists and is a very dark charcoal grey.

 

Gary

 

70922B22-2FEA-4690-B383-C8D6CFA78D9A.thumb.jpeg.201a96614b5627800c5364c4c34c2c4f.jpeg20C3AD89-0A51-43D4-AE64-B2C95DE4041F.thumb.jpeg.86b4878c1b0debceb2b6cdcce01d2744.jpegE5904E92-3140-44A4-9D12-3098F129AFD0.thumb.jpeg.d3c7792f1731be0bfbf5e104245b6dbe.jpeg14DC62A3-928A-4E80-AA87-4BC9AB118D72.thumb.jpeg.a1a1a5745ac4a98f9467b19a06783ea5.jpeg

Edited by Morgan
Typo

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I was supposed to be looking for the figures and how you made them Dafi.

But I get hypnotized by all the amazing work you do.  Amazing is really an understatement.  I'm really not articulate enough to describe the work I see on your build.   In fact my English is reduced to one statement...  "Oh my god, WOW!"

 

Are you a genius or what?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, William-Victory said:

"Oh my god, WOW!"

 

Are you a genius or what?

You gave the answer to your last question "... or what?" already one line up 😉

Thank you all, very appreciated all your great input!

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi

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And then was time for some dafinition of the details.

 

Next was to put some primer to see the new rigols.

 

Victory1920-190308_2951.jpg

 

Both guns and first window - still has to be improved ...

 

Victory1920-190311_2959.jpg

 

Also the cases for the hammocks were redone.

 

Victory1920-190311_2960.jpg

 

XXXDAn

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Final spurt for the 1920 slice.

 

Prepared the bolts for the irons.

 

Victory-Schnittchen-181224_2583.jpg

 

Double-Twin-Spin-Technology, first the diameter and then the hight of the head.

 

Victory-Schnittchen-181224_2578.jpg

 

Then toothpicked the wrong holes of the deadeyes ...

 

Victory1920-190313_2961.jpg

 

... fixed, marked, center punched and drilled ...

 

Victory1920-190313_2962.jpg

 

... and grooved.

 

Victory1920-190313_2966.jpg

 

Tried different window settings.

 

Victory1920-190315_2970.jpg

 

Got the irons, tinkered on and finally ...

 

Victory1920-190315_2968.jpg

 

... got it done 🙂

 

Victory1920-190316_2973.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2975.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2976.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2979.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2980.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2984.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2985.jpg

 

Victory1920-190316_2986.jpg

 

Still have to smoothen a lot to be prepared for color.

 

And here the update of the nice comparison: Just a mere 100 years apart 🙂

 

Victory1920-190316_2972.jpg

 

XXXDAn
 

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