Justin P.

@BobG I was thinking about my earlier response to your question and think I should have pointed out that for my Syren build I’ve used almost no power tools at all, but have easily “constructed” a great deal more.   Probably to do with kit v. scratch, but I also wonder about scale.  Parts are so much smaller on the Syren that even if I was scratch building it, I wonder if I wouldn’t mostly be cutting and sawing by hand regardless.   Anyway, just a thought...

2 hours ago, BobG said:

In what order would you recommend buying various machines based on your experience?

Thanks Bob!   I rreally don't have that much space to be honest.   I fit everything into a custom built cubicle-type spot in the garage: see here.   It does take a lot of organizing and cleaning, and resetting the space to keep from burying myself in bits and scrap and tools as Im working.  But I do ok.   Its very similar to my setup at work so I am familiar with working in this type of arrangement.  I keep all the power tools stored on one side and arrange them  or store them below as I need them.  For instance, I got all the timber ready for frames using the table saw and thickness sander and then stored both of them.   Then brought out the band saw and other tools for building the frames.   It looks like I have space, but there is a lot of time spent resetting.   I actually like this time because it helps me think through what Im going to try and do, kind of like a warm up - ha. 

As for power tools...   hard question.   I can only speak for myself here, but the absolute most important tool for me in the space is an old computer so I can easily refer back to MSW when I get stuck.   Second to that is good lighting and a small shop vac with good reach.   After that, the Byrnes Saw is probably my most important tool, and then the disc/belt sander and maybe a good rotary tool (I prefer Foredom over Dremel but have both).   Then I would just acquire what you need when you need it.   For this build Ive managed to use everything you mention so far: table saw, band saw, Byrnes Thickness sander, drill press, and micro mill.   I have a Delta midi lathe but rarely use it for modeling.   All that being said, there are folks who have achieved everything with none of these tools.   I use what I have because I have it, so why not!   It's probably not all needed by any means.     There are pro's and cons to each.   

If you have specific questions about any one tool, Id be happy to give you my run-down.

Ive collected things as I started, only having an ancient Jarmac saw that I was sure was possessed.    

47 minutes ago, captain_hook said:

I like the selfmade-jig, looks very professional.

I can hardly take credit for the design, or even the construction.   I followed in the footsteps of many other Triton builders in the Group Projects section, whose work informs pretty much all of my own.  

19 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Nice work on the framing.  We're a patient bunch, so we'll wait.

Shouldn't take too long.   The draw plate came in very quickly...    so Im just making treenails (Cherry) and testing the process on my dummy frame.  

Small update:

Plugging away now at Ch. 9, "Hull Details" which I think will take a bit of time.   Im very wary of drilling into my hull to add the stern sheaves and still am at a loss over how to work out the carvings, side badges and so forth.   So it goes... 

Today I started with something easy and got the port lid assembly line going...    

All frames completed, with only one redo.

So far pretty pleased.  I added the cross-members and marked out the center line of each and built a frame mounting jig which Ill feature later.    Ive done a rough sanding and have begun marking out treenail locations and starting drilling them out.  Im waiting for a draw plate from Model Machines, so until that arrives I think Ive gone as far as Im able at the moment.  

That cleaned up really nicely.   Is the tape along the cap rail just for protection?    I also find the tone and contrast of your deck, waterways and margin plank really pleasing.   

Fun for any Northwest Passage enthusiasts...

Discovery Visualization - 

https://youtu.be/auFpowDCLB8

Nice job!   I love knowing that so much can go into a decision over what will ultimately be a trifling detail to the casual observer!    Interesting website reference as well...   reminds of those subscription services where they will send you historic letters from dead VIP's.   

Nice recovery.   Looks really great, and fun to see that rope run through.   Its really coming alive.

Agreed, thanks for sharing.  This is also another future step that's been occupying my thoughts.   And its true, they do just magically appear!   I was thinking so far to do the same, start small and work up...   Are you planning to line them?

Your double-planking turned out very nice.  Though it looked like the first layer looked nice too.    I assume you wont be coppering over it?    Other details look well executed too.  

1 hour ago, Ainars Apalais said:

My Idea to add locker, pump  room comes from ChadB built model. Thanks  him for inspiration.

When i start build your model as a guideline i use Chadb model.

"tkay11" and "AnobiumPunctatum" also help me with recommending good reference book. The Fully Framed model HMN Swan Class Sloops 1767-1780 by David Antscherl.

Indeed!   I pieced this together myself when I went back and more carefully read through some of the logs.   Thanks!

On 2/3/2021 at 11:27 AM, PAnderson said:

Something I can use for the bulkheads and the planking, like a rotisserie kind of deal

I have the Model Zone slip and while its great for bulkheads, it is otherwise unwieldy and gets in the way.   It really isnt suitable for steps beyond early construction of the hull.   Planking and so forth, no way.    I think you are better off in the end finding or designing something else.    I used mine once, and would be happy to sell it but I honestly do not think it is worth what it would cost to ship - I have the big one. 

As for your models...   dear me, now off to inspect my own wall-hangings and model shelves!  

5 hours ago, Justin P. said:

Ive noticed sever references to the "well mod" but havent found the right post on it. 

Nevermind, I think I figured out the reference!  

On 2/2/2021 at 1:46 PM, Ainars Apalais said:

Hi Justin

Welcome to the club:)

Looks nice start.

Thanks Ainars, 

I just caught up on your build, wow!   Out of curiousity did you ever find a good resource for the well and locker mods you incorporated into your build?   Ive noticed sever references to the "well mod" but havent found the right post on it. 

Thanks for checking in.

Look to Dodds & Moore - "Building the Wooden Fighting Ship"

They have many examples of ships in various states of construction in dry dock, including Victory (see image).

1 hour ago, Overworked724 said:

I’m seriously thinking of getting the hawseholes drilled before setting in the waterways.

Reading this is giving me an anxiety attack.   I should have done this too...    

2 hours ago, WalrusGuy said:

 

I used the laser cut template as a guide for the shape at the relevant bulkheads

Thats just the kind of simple solution that always seem to escape me, thank you for sharing!  Ive been WAY over thinking it.   Wanted to add after looking at the shared post, your coppering is superb.   Just beautiful.

Looking great.   Can I ask how you worked out your hull cradle?   Ive been going over whether to knock one out as I dont really want to continue using a keel clamp now that my coppering is done.  Did you use a template or just reckoning?   Forgive me is this is covered in your build log somewhere already...

I put together a very effective setup with no oscillation using a drill press and table.   Speed is variable so easy to keep in the right area to prevent burn.  120 grit or above leaves a nice finish on hardwood (to be finish sanded at the final stage by hand). The whole setup out the door cost me less than $200 and I now have a drill press.   As previously mentioned the compression drums do get out of wack above about 1.5" diameter and no amount of centering seems to help.   If the drum stays under 1.5" Ive had no problems at all.   Adding a tilt to the table shouldn't be too hard with some thought put into the construction of the insert.   

I clamp a vac hose close up and all the dust gets sucked away during heavy use.   

Frame construction process...

So as promised I'll outline in more detail how Im constructing my frames.   The reason is primarily to provide a somewhat comprehensive set-by-step for anyone thinking about starting this build.  Im sure its well documented in numerous iterations by many more skilled modelers than I, but will throw my lot in in case its helpful to someone.   My process is rather power-tool heavy, but I find the time I save using power-tools allows me a little extra to be thinking through and prototyping next steps.   Not that Im in a hurry, but with kids, a full-time job and the honey-do list, my time in the yard must be used efficiently ;).    Some of this will be repetitive, so Ill keep that bit short..

Step 1:

Cutting and laying out the frame components on the chosen material.  Im using Maple and Elmers Glue Stick here which Ive mentioned before as being the most reversible (I think) of the various options Ive read about.   Giving myself a "handle" but mounting the components at one end of the piece keeps my fingers away from the blade.   

Step 2:  Roughing out. 

I chose to cut my pieces out using a 9" Ryobi bandsaw.   I find this a more pleasant experience than using a scroll saw and noticed that my paper stays firmly attached as the blade only runs downward and there is no friction pulling back upwards and lifting the paper - a problem Ive noticed others have encountered.  One thing Ive noticed about these bandsaws is that they really need the time to be accurately setup otherwise they cut like a cheap power tool.   They can be very good, just put the time in.   I cut up to about 1-2mm from the plan line to give plenty of room for finishing to a more accurate shape.  

Step 3: Shaping.

Im using a drum sander setup to bring the frame pieces down to their "pre-faired" shaped.   Im using a 120 grit drum mounted to a drill press and take these down to just outside of the plan line.  As recommended by @ChadB in his build log, it is very important to leave the ends with 3-4mm worth of material so really only focus on the outside edges during this step.   

Step 4: Fitting and Cutting the Floor and 1st Futtocks

So once I reach this phase all the parts have been taken down to the plan line, leaving the ends long.   The first two components I work on are the floor futtocks.   I first use a belt sander using 400 grit, being careful to square the machine as precisely as I can and take the ends of the first futtocks down until they meet cleanly at the center when aligned over the floor futtock which sits abaft (behind) the join.   Note here I have left the Keel and Keelson notches uncut. 

After being satisfied with the join between the first futtocks I then peel the paper off the floor futtock and join the three pieces using wood glue.  Not well pictured is that Ive transferred marks of the keelson and keel notches to the top and bottom faces of the wood.  I then mount this assembly into my Proxxon MF70 mill and set about cutting out the notches, with a fitting step in between using the Cherry keelson and a duplicate keel piece I cut earlier.   This is followed by a final fitting in the jig to check level.  Also not well pictured is an alignment mark that I use to be sure the assembly is mounted into the mill vice absolutely level.

Step 5:  Final Assembly.

The rest of the process is pretty straightforward.   I first build out the blue layer, carefully sanding the ends down and checking the fit and curvature of the frame against the plans.  I use a brush with water to soften and remove each layer of paper after peeling back the ends to finalize the fit (also a trick I got from Chadb's build.)

Then its just about repeating these same sanding and fitting steps for red frame components and removing all the paper.   I give the whole thing a fine sanding over the face and fit into the jig for later.  

Rudder, Pintels and Gudgeons...

A decent break, and nice bit of time to step away from this did the trick.   I had been gearing for this bit of the build for awhile.   I had decided on bronze for my lintels and gudgeons rather than the copper plated as the available options for achieving this just didn't sit right with me and I recall reading somewhere that bronze was used due to its relative compatibility with copper under the waterline.   Having not worked with this material in past, I also wanted to give it a try.   I sourced some 28 gauge sheet from Rio Grande at a decent price and used Patricks technique for taking it down to strips by sandwiching it between sheets of some scrap I had laying around.  

I was especially thankful to have recalled Patricks early discussion about this as it turns out Bronze has quite different workability and does not easily cut by hand as brass does.  I had first tried just to cut it with a ruler and razor but that just didn't work at all.  This method used on a power saw worked great and was very accurate.  After soldering a brass wire for the pintels, filing everything down and blackening the above-waterline components I ended up with a pretty good set of hardware for the rudder.  

Getting everything mounted properly certainly was not a pretty affair, but it cleaned up ok.   The bronze ended up with more scratches on its finish than I would have liked when it was all said and done so I need to sort out some kind of polishing situation at some point.   Trying to do this after the fact is not ideal, but I think I got some tunnel vision and didn't really notice how much it was scratched up until examining it again the next day.  

Overall though, I really like the contrast of the bronze/copper and especially like that its not brass and I avoided trying to make the copper tape work which I think would not have worked given the finish of the Amati plates.  

Fantastic and again, great photography!   What are you using?

On 12/29/2020 at 8:38 PM, Kathy Teel said:

I will enjoy following along with your log.

Me too.