allanyed
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Everything posted by allanyed
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Rather than just checking the like button , she is VERY neatly rigged. It appears you are using different circumference lines as needed which is super to see. Allan- 218 replies
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I realize this is a terminology thing and I really hope you don't mind but what you stained at the bow is not the keel. The keel (which it appears you also stained) ends at the point where it meets the stem and gripe. The larger section at the bow is the knee of the head which is made of numerous pieces as can be seen in the drawing below. Picture and a thousand words, etc. below from Peter Goodwin's The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War, page 37.
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Thanks Nearshore. The keel does taper as you mention, but as it is at the bottom of the ship it is not so noticeable. I do not think it is as important as the taper of the knee of the head as on the picture above which tapers fore and aft as well as vertically. On the downside, if you did taper the knee of the head provided, it might not look good as you would be going through layers of plywood that would then show through. Regardless, have fun, your build is going nicely. Allan
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Your idea for a greyhound dog figure head is a great idea, especially as it is considered the oldest known thoroughbred dog. For your stern piece, just as an FYI, not in any way a suggestion to change anything, by orders of the Admiralty British naval vessels did not have the name of the ship on the stern, or anywhere else for that matter, except between 1780 and 1790. When names were on the stern in those 10 years and after the days of sail, they were always painted, never carved letters. As your Greyhound was launched in 1720 and broken up in 1741, she would not have had her name on the stern. Again, this is just meant as an FYI, it is your model and your choice of course. Allan
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Very neat work, congratulations. One thing you may want to consider fixing, and I realize this is a common kit situation, is to taper the knee of the head. According to David Steel's Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture and the Shipbuilder's Repository, the knee tapered to less than 6" at the fore end on a 74 gun ship. Sketch below gives a better picture than words, including a top view and dimensions at the fore end for your 1:100 scale (1.4mm) With the width you have the figure head of the Roman goddess of war, Bellona, will be extremely bowlegged.😌 Allan
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Welcome to MSW Mark's advice is right on the spot. Spend at least a dozen hours or more studying the thousands of posts. It will save you many hours of frustration and do-overs. Also go to the various Bluenose build logs for some good information. If you do not have it, consider getting a copy of Chapelle's book on schooners as it is a great source of information. It is based on American schooners, but the rigging descriptions and drawings are pretty much appropriate and extremely helpful. Allan
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Hi Masa Great progress!! Remember that the coamings and head ledges had specific construction as shown in post #3 above as well. They were interlocked as seen and the portion of the corners above the deck were rounded, not square. The sketch below is dimensioned for a specific ship, but the construction style is generic. Allan
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Phil, Considering all the work you did to make wooden cannons, did you consider 3D printed guns? They are cheap and extremely accurate. The earliest that several of us have drawn up are Pitt and Browne patterns from the 17th century but the Browne and even the Commonwealth pattern (below) looks similar to those that you made. 3D drawings can be sent to a 3D printer and made for about $0.60 each in any scale you want. If you wish, please feel free to PM me I and can send you STL drawings that you can send to a 3D printer. 2D drawings of Browne are below. The png pic is not so clear but open the PDF and you can compare the patterns to the ones you are using. Cannon perrier was a new one for me. As they were Portuguese, do you know how they came about to be on the Revenge? This is really interesting and I would like to hear more about these if you can share the information you have on these. Allan Browne Pattern 1625 to 1649.PDF
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HI David, Can you post a photo or tell us the specific lines? I know of lines such as lifts and halyards that pass through a mast, going over a sheave, rather than going through a block, but am having trouble thinking of any line that goes through a hole in a mast to be belayed on the opposite side. Allan
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Which ship? We have a number of STL drawings completed of cannon that you can send to a 3D printer and have them made in black resin. I paid about $0.60 each for perfect cannon, including freight, about a year ago. We have about 30 cannon drawings done with over a 100 to go but there might be a fit with the ones that are complete depending on which ship your building, Allan
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David, I would bet that there are no members that don't mess up a part on a weekly or even daily basis. You are not alone. Our own responses on how we fix our own mistakes seems to be what varies. Do we make a replacement or do we try to fix it as best we can? Allan
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Nice intro Peter, warm welcome to MSW! Allan
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The anchors really look good. Below is a contemporary drawing from 1797 held at the Science Museum . While it is a sheet or bower anchor for a 20 gun ship, it may still be of some help in comparing to the drawings in the AOS book. Allan
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Hi B.E. You are 100% correct about the taper of the stem, apron and knee of the head moving vertically as well as horizontally and it can be tricky. Even the sided dimension of the keel tapers 3 inches on a 64 from midships to the sternpost and from midships to the stem so this would have to be accounted for as well. Same goes for the sternpost which tapers from 19.5" at the top to 14" at the keel. As you say, sometimes it may be better to forget meddling. Allan
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They would be the same as pins from what I have seen. Both sides for each thwart for a double banked boat, alternating for single banked. Allan
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Alan, If I had a dollar for every typo or rushed response with a mistake I would be living on the beach in Wailea. Allan
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Maybe I am missing something, but I thought lateen sails were fore and aft rigged. Regardless, if a mast passes through partners where it pierces a deck, wedges would work. Mizzen masts on contemporary models that carried a lateen have wedges. Small craft may be a different story where something like the half hoop steadies a mast against a thwart. Allan
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Hi James I am only adding what I can find based on contemporary information rather than modern sources. I have the Pandora book and again I may be wrong but I am pretty sure the set up of the tholes in the book is wrong. Looking at the files in the Boats of Men of War book by W. E. Mays, the narrowest boat that is double banked that he shows that I could find is 7' 8". There have been good discussions on this and other items on boats from the ears to the oar lengths here at MSW that may help. I am sure there are some members that are far more learned on contemporary details for ships' boats that can add more information for you. There are contracts for boats that may also be of some help. One small part of a contemporary contract from September 9, 1790 gives the following for a yawl. I see no way there can be two rowers on a thwart that is only 5' 7 " and not be in each others' way. Yawle of Long Broad Deep 23 ft 5 7 ins 2 5 ins
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Love that you used silk span for the sails and your wood joinery is great. For the future, and I may be completely wrong, but from what I have researched in contemporary based information, a 22 foot yawl would be about 5' 9" in breadth so would have to be single banked with a thole alternating port and starboard on every other thwart rather than both a port and starboard on a single thwart then missing a thole on the alternate thwart. Leaving a thwart without a thole for an oar does not seem to make any sense, but that may just be me. Below is a sketch with what I am referring to showing single banked versus partial double banked. Allan
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I have tried turning these in the past and the flexing is far too much to control. On the other hand I have found that an octagon or hexadecagon shaped rod can be spun on a lathe and sanded by wrapping a piece of sand paper around the piece and moving it along the length as flexing is not a concern. The masts taper from the partners downward and upward so continual checks are needed to get to the proper diameters along its length. Allan
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Do you mean the technique that you designed? With your apparent drawing skills, why not modify your drawings to match those of actual gratings rather than something that was never used in actual practice? If that does not suit your needs do whatever makes you happy. The most obvious thing is to have the battens running fore and aft, not athwartships as Druxey has explained. Allan
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Further to Druxey
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If that is the case, the plans appear to be scaled at 1" = 100" A 1" long gun would be just short of a 8' 6" barrel. I am PM'g you 3D drawings of 9 and 18 pounder guns in that length that you can use to get these 3D printed in black resin. Let me know if you need contact information on a printer or you can give them to a printer close to your home to discuss. These will be FULL size drawings so you need to tell your printer you want them scaled down to 1:100. Allan
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Hi Benjamin, At fifteen years old you may very well be our youngest ship modeler at MSW. Congratulations! I realize all this might becoming a jigsaw puzzle of sorts for you. Just take a step or two at a time and it will all come together. Let us know what size you decide to go with and I will send you the appropriate 3D drawings if I have them for the sizes you need. It may be easy to confirm the scale if you can let us know what the size of the paper plan is? If it is 1:70 scale I am guessing they are about 36" X 24" Allan
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Benjamin, I PM'd you 32 pounder carronade drawings and as you now know, they are totally inappropriate except for the times mentioned above. If you are going to go with long guns, I can email you 3D drawings of long guns at your scale that are more appropriate in pattern. They will be Armstrong Frederick pattern, but at your scale will certainly be closer in looks than having all Carronades like those built at Carron. It matters a lot if YOU want the model to look like the ship did. If you don't care, so be it, it is your model after all. If you PM me what calibers (shot weight such as 9 pounders, 12pounders, etc.) I will send the 3D drawings for various lengths of each which you can email to a printer. If you need a printer in the US I can also email you a contact that has done cannon for me in the past. I have not had any made in over a year, but I am pretty sure he is still doing this. Allan
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