SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse 1897 by Mirabell61 - FINISHED - scale 1:144 - POF - first German four stacker of the Norddeutscher Lloyd line

[Mirabell61]

thanks Michael,

your comment is much appreciated, I hope the plating will work out as intended...

 

Nils

[captainbob]

What a good method for getting the shape of the odd shaped metal plates.  That's another one for my "HOW TO" box.

 

Bob

[Mirabell61]

Thank you Bob,

 

Nils

[shipmodel]

Hi Nils - 

 

A great build.  I am enjoying the log and your techniques immensely.  Lots here to tuck into my toolbox.

 

I did have a question about the in/out hull plating that you are contemplating.  I took a quick look through the internet for images of KWdG and everything I found looks like she was flat plated without any rivet heads showing.  Maybe you don't have to go through the effort.  

 

Here is the best photo I found, with her in drydock.  There are certainly strakes of plates, but I can't see the raised edges that you get from overlapping plates.

 

 

And another after the collision with the Orinoco.

 

 

I'm not an expert here, so  feel free to ignore this.

 

Dan

 

 

[Mirabell61]

Thanks Dan,

 

having those pics from the web as well, I was asking myself the same question with ref. to the time of build...(year 1897), perhaps with sunk rivet heads.... ?

unfortunately I have no close ups.

The two enclosed pic (when zoomed up on the Monitor) look like there were rivetheads. Perhaps some fellow builder would have Close up historical pics he or she would like to share with me...

I made up my decision for showing rivet heads, like there can be seen with RMS Titanic, many years later

 

Nils

Edited October 1, 2015 by Mirabell61

[shipmodel]

I took the hull photo and enlarged it in Photoshop.  Maybe it is a bit clearer.

 

 

Dan

[druxey]

Flush rivet heads? In any case, hardly visible at scale size, in my opinion.

[Bobstrake]

If you look behind anchor, and expand the photo, there appear to be rivets.

 

[shipmodel]

Hi Bob - my eyes are not what they used to be, and they never were that good, but I enlarged the photo around the anchor and I just see portholes, not rivets

 

 

On the other hand, when I squint a bit I see a double line of rivets in a "Z" pattern down the side of the stem just where the hull plates would be secured.  They might well be like the rivets on Nils' excellent rudder.

 

 

Curiouser and curiouser ...

 

 

 

Dan

 

[Bobstrake]

Ah, now I see the portholes. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I know Nils will choose the best course.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Bobstrake

[Mirabell61]

Many thanks for your Input to Dan, Druxey and Bob,

 

I`ll be haveing eyes open for better historic close up photos of the hull....

 

Perhaps Peter (Mr. Hollom) has a better Detail pic of the riveting, as he has built the wonderful 1:100 scale model for a museum

 

Nils

[Mirabell61]

Build log part 21

 

 

Update : begin of metal-plating.....

 

after determining the positions and hights of the horizontal belts with the dummy tapes, the metal plating can begin. I chose the technique with leaving a gap between first and third belt, and then mounting the second overlapping the other two in the riveting areas. The downward next shall be done likewise.....

The rivets are ponced with modul 0,5 watchmakers toothwheel (single-row and tripple-row)

 

 

Nils

 

 

Unfortunately I do`nt have a close up pic of the KWdG riveting, but this is showing a close up of the "Imperator`s" plating

 

 

 

single- and tripple row ponce toothwheels, modul 0,5

 

 

 

larger plates around the stern...

 

 

 

shows the gap between first and third belt

 

 

 

for withstanding the high stresses in length direction, here the second belt`s edges bears riveting fields on top and bottom. The middle section of that belt will take the portholes afterwards

 

 

 

the hull rails are not overplated

 

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Mirabell61

[Omega1234]

Wow, Nils.  The plating is really giving the hull a boost of realism; that's for sure.

 

Nicely done.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[Mirabell61]

Thanks for your nice comment Patrick,

 

Nils

[pete48]

Very nice Nils, Shes taking shape, Fantastic work

 

Best Regards,

Pete

[NenadM]

Amazing metal work, amazing carpenter work, amazing ... All !!!

[Mirabell61]

Many thanks for your Kind appreciations Pete and Nenad,

 

knowing that the rivets may be a bit large in scale, I simply like my model to show them this way. Trust it does`nt look too much out of the way after all....

 

Nils

[dgbot]

Looking good Nils. But I am wondering at the rivets and if they are too pronounced for the scale you are in.  I know you like the way they look but aren't you worried about them detracting from the rest of your workmanship? Just wondering and getting jealous again.

Totally in awe of your work.

David B

[Mirabell61]

Thank you for your nice comment David,

 

and yes of course the rivets are a bit oversized at scale 1:144, but as I wanted them to be this way, I`m not worried at all. The Skin appeal will be same as my other plated "riveted"  models. With the KWdG I`m quite pleased with the look. The riveting is well visible, even after the paint is on and in appr. 1 m distance. The port side is now plated down to the waterline.

 

Nils

[Stockholm tar]

Nils,

 

Just been catching up on your log of this splendid build. You've just reached a rather interesting bit for me, the steel rivetted plating. Food for thought there, when I get to that point on my Statsraad Lehmkuhl half model. The pics show quite clearly how you achieve it, although you did draw me a diagram in my log, so thanks for that.

 

By the way, re. your post 446, what happened to the ship in your first picture? I imagine you would know.

[Mirabell61]

Thank you Kester,

 

in answer to your question and the damaged KWdG, I borrowed this information from the web`s available  "Norway Heritage Site"....

 

Description of the collision between the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse and the Orinoco off Cerburg in November 1906: On November 21st, 1906 the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse (Capt. O. Cuppers) which was bound from Bremen to New York, called at Southampton, and then crossed to Cherbourg, where 170 1st class passengers were embarked. When she left Cherbourg shortly after 8 o'clock, she carried 330 1st class, 350 2nd class, and 700 3rd class (steerage) passengers. The Orinoco, bound from Southampton to the West Indies and New York, had 60 1st class passengers, and four in the 2nd cabin. After leaving Cherbourg she was to call at Vigo to embark a number of emigrants for the West Indies and South America. According to one account there was a dense fog, and the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse steamed slowly through the channel leading out of the roadstead, in charge of the French pilot, who was to be dropped off the Casquets.

According to another report the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse was rounding the head of the dyke when her Captain perceived the Orinoco and gave two blasts of his whistle as a signal for the Orinoco to keep to starboard. The Orinoco, the report ads, did not respond and the signal was repeated from the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse, but still the Orinico did not change her course, and almost immediately afterward crashed into the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse's starboard bow. The Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse was according to the report going at a rate of 18 knots, while the Orinoco was only steaming 3 knots. Capt. Cuppers of the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse was also blamed for discharging the pilot before the vessel was clear of the harbor.

The majority of the 3rd class passengers, who were berthed forward, had gone below to arrange their belongings, and many had already retired in anticipation of sea-sickness in the Channel. The 1st class passengers had finished dinner, and many were on deck. Suddenly the outlines of a steamer loomed through the fog on the star board bow of the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse, not more than a hundred feet away. The Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse instantly altered her course, but the vessel, which proved to be the Orinoco entering the harbor, kept steadily on, and crashed into the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse with terrific force, driving her steel plates inward and killing four emigrants who were lying in there bunks. So powerful was the impact that the bow of the Orinoco remained locked in the side of the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse for several minutes. When the liners finally drew apart, it was found that a great hole had been driven in the side of the Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse, while her plates were twisted and bent for a considerable distance along the starboard side. The bow plates of the Orinoco were likewise broken for a distance of five feet, but the damage was much less

 

Nils

[mikegerber]

Some main features/characteristics may be well exaggerated by a model. It's like in the visual arts - if it is successfully done, this distinguishes a master!

 

That will be all very nice - well done, Nils!

 

All the best,

Mike

[Mirabell61]

Thanks Mike,

 

very nicely said......, it gives me a little encouraging uplift under the wings again, Dankeschön

 

Nils

[Stockholm tar]

Nils,

 

Thank you for the explanation. Very sad, but it could have been much worse.

 

Good idea about the hull rivets. If they were scale you probably wouldn't see them at all.

[captainbob]

Beautiful job on the start of the plating.

 

Bob

[Mirabell61]

Thank you very much Bob,

 

I`m a bit anxious because the adhesive foil is slowly coming to an end and I have`nt managed to get appr. new foil yet. Will Need to do some telephoning in the coming week

 

Nils

[Mirabell61]

A little update on the plating job....

 

the plates are are rubbed down on the wooden planking by meams of a soft erazor untill all the overlapping joints are thoroughly pressed down, so there will be no trapped air-boils underneath, The rubber debris from the erazor is then wiped away with a soft brush, before the next stripe goes on

 

Nils

 

 

The table guillotine is very handy for straight, clean cuts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2015 by Mirabell61

[S.Coleman]

Aha. This is what I have been waiting for. Looks amazing!

[Mirabell61]

Thanks S.Coleman,

 

welcome to the build, glad you like it...

 

Nils

[Omega1234]

Hi Nils

 

Absolutely amazing!

 

Quick question in relation to the hull painting. Would I be right in guessing that you'd have to spray paint the hull instead of hand brushing it for fear of covering over the rivets? Just curious.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick