HMS Naiad 1797 by GDM67 - 1:60 - using Ed Tosti Books

[EdT]

Hi Gary,

 

Lovely work so far.  I am not sure what you meant by the shape being a little sharp at the bow, but I think you will find that correcting any misalignment will be much easier now than later - but you may be able to judge that best based on your measurements.  I did a lot of frame adjustment to correct setting errors.  Simply break the joints with the softwood chocks and re-glue them after the adjustment.  The best way to avoid this type of problem is to consistently check positions by squaring up from lines on the base plan as each frame is added.  This can be a challenge on the forward frames, especially if left over length, because the height of breadth lines normally used for this fall inside the top of frame line at the bow.  Marking the height of breath lines on the patterns and using those may help - or square up the the top of frame line on the still-attached patterns.  Do not use the actual tops of over length frames.  This persistent checking is easy to neglect in the desire to get on with setting frames, but it is the best way to maintain confidence that all is well.  Unfortunately, the eye alone is usually deceiving.  However, all that said, your work is looking fantastic.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Hi All,  thanks for the likes and follows.

 

Ed - I appreciate the advice and will put it to work. 

 

More to come. G

[GDM67]

Hi All,

 

More progress on the forward cant frames.  The below photos show the from frame "t" forward.  I am very pleased with the results.

 

 

Note the West Indian Boxwood chocks from a sample piece of wood courtesy of D'Lumberyard.  The framing template also lines up with the aft edge of frame t. As you can tell, there is still some fairing to be done, especially at the belt line where the frames are far too thick at this stage.  That majority of that fairing will likely come from the inside.

 

Here is the port view.  You will note that I still have to trim the top timbers.  They will get their final sizing when I do the final sanding. 

 

In a future post, I will show a close up of the footings of the forward cant frames.  This area is a bit complicated - and was a challenge to do.  It all makes perfect sense now.  I am speaking of the area where the forward deadwood, lower apron and keel come together as an assembly to receive the frame feet.

 

I will also do a step-by-step of a frame assembly.  Ed speaks about developing processes that will ensure success.  While I follow those from the book, I have individualized mine to meet my skill and comfort level.  When I deviate from the process, thats when the work quality decreases...  Interesting observation...  G

[Mike Y]

Your log is a pleasure to read, please keep it coming!

[GDM67]

Mike Y,  thank you for your kind words.  I enjoy writing this log and glad you and others enjoy it.

 

This week, I have made steady, but slow progress on the Naiad.  I am about 90 hours into the build and still get in about an hour a day.  Its mostly in 20 minute blocks that I get to work or after the kids go down, so I am either distracted or tired.  But thats what it is and if I want to build, then I need to accept it.

 

Below are photos through frame s.  You will note that some of the cant frames now require two chocks each.  You will also note that the top timber is no longer the reference point for setting up the frames.  The maximum height  of breadth is used to do the intial placement of the frames at this point.  I simply fair the outside aft edge of the frame to the maximum height of breadth and line it up with the upright jig.  Once the glue has set, I use the frame template to make sure I am on track.

 

 

 

Spacers are added after the frame has set.  Using a triangle, I make sure the frame is perpendicular to the keel and aligned with the base drawing. 

 

The photo makes the frames look skewed on the port side, but they are actually in balance.  You will also note that there is a lot of wood still left between the upper and lower heights of breadth.  This will be faired after I install the gun port sills.  I dont want to thin them too much prior to this.  I will simply fair to the moulded dimension of the sills at that time.  I am tempted to cut the gun ports in now, but Ed advises against that.  I think it has a lot to do with alignment at the top timbers.  So, I will wait...

 

I purchased a set of mini cabinet scrapers that I use to fair the inside.  Again, everything is rough at this point.  As we all know, once you take it off, you cant put it back...  I expect to be done with the bow cant frames by the end of the week and will begin the stern transom and cant frames after that.  I have developed a pretty good rythm with building frames and use a just-in-time approach as Ed describes in his book, Naiad.  I find that building each frame one at a time is not the most efficient way to go, but it does lend to better quality for me and also allows me to keep the pieces all together. 

 

More next week.  Thanks for reading. Gary

Edited March 30, 2016 by GDM67

[EdT]

Looking good, Gary.  The reason I advocate cutting the gun ports later, is first, because they are set at a fixed height above the deck, and you have not yet laid out deck heights.  Second, cutting these from fair lines along the hull based on the deck line will ensure a fair attractive line.

 

Ed

[mtaylor]

Looking great, Gary.   I think the "just in time" approach is a good one.  I can see cranking them out en masse and installing all at once later if speed is needed or if one has done this before several times and is comfortable doing that.

[GDM67]

106 hours into this build.  I have now completed the installation of the forward cant frames.  This is frame "p" forward.  I am pleased with the results and will hold of on further fairing and finishing until all of the frames are installed.  

 

 

 

I am now turning my attention to the transom and the aft fashion piece.  This area presents another challenge and is well described in the book, Naiad.  Since I dont own a mill, all of the work is done the old fashion way.    I had to redo the transom pieces I made earlier in the build since these were cut a hair short of the aft fashion piece where they need to dado in. Boy, close up photos are no fun. 

 

 

The pieces actually look better in person...  The goal here is to get fashion and filler pieces 1-4 to be on the same vertical plan.  The aft fashion piece will then have dados in it to accept these pieces.  Once complete, there will be considerable fairing to get to the finished product.

 

 

Above are the verticle templates used to align the fashio pieces.  I marked the afp on these uprights as well as all the intersection points.  

[albert]

Very nice.

[EdT]

Yep, looking good, Gary.

[druxey]

Just catching up, Gary. Great progress since I last checked in.

[aviaamator]

Learning to build...

[GDM67]

120 hours into the Naiad build.  I am really enjoying this!  Progress has been made on the transom and stern cant frames.  Again, all final fairing is being deferred to later. 

 

A few shots of the forward fashion piece (ffp) prior to the transom pieces being faired.  There is a lot of meat on these and with good reason.  Note the dados from the filler and transom pieces.  Also note the camber of the wing transom (top) as well as the deck transom. 

 

 

Ed shows some reallly nice camber clamps in the book, Naiad.  I have yet to make these and know that I should (and will).  They allow angled clamping. I made the straight clamps, which are great, but here, have settled on the plastic clamps.  These are not ideal, but do work...

 

Frames 32 forward.  Each frame has an aft and forward pair, along with a template to match.  It is issential to leave the templates on the frames until the last possible moment.  I have gained more confidence in this build and have started to gently fair the frames to the template once installed. Note the transom and filler pieces have been faired here.  Also, the chocks have been chiseled to thier final thickness and sanded, leaving the template mostly intact.  Again, without the template, you are lost...

 

Here are a couple of shots of my framing jig in action.  This jig, as described in the Naiad book is a wonderful tool.  Sure, you could get by without one, but the precision required for each frame makes this jig a worthy investment in time and energy to build. 

 

When making frames, I alternate between stock.  I number my stock 1 thru 4 and build each frame from a different piece.  This is the same principle for tiling a floor.  Subtle changes in the color and texture will blend in much better with this method.  Also shown here are the chocks, I number those as well and will split them afterward.  Each chock is matched to specific frame location.

 

When fitting framing pieces together, I will install the chock on one side of the frame (not shown), clamp, let dry, chisel to thickness and then paste it to the template on the jib itself.  I then match up the other side of the frame, carefully beveling the frame to match the chock as well as inside and outside lines.  Once done, glue in place, clamp the frame down and then clamp the chock.  The next day, I fine tune the frame.

 

Book mathching (not shown) the cant frames is a good quality check.  If they are not equal, either tweak them or chuck them...  I do a gently sanding using a drum sander just to smooth out the rough frames.  Most of my fairing is done with miniature cabinet scrapers and I find that a smooth frame scrapes best...

 

A couple of shots of the full project.  My landlubber neighbor came by yesterday and said, "Its starting to look like a ship".  I took that as a compliment.  To me, it looked like a ship after the first piece was made...

 

 

The aft faces of the transoms and filler pieces from the stern will get rough faired this week.  I will repaste the wing transom template as a guide.

Edited April 11, 2016 by GDM67

[dvm27]

Great work, Gary. I'be be conservative with fairing the fore face of the foremost aft cant and aft face of the last fore cant until the first full frames are test fitted. For some reason this transition has caused me problems on a couple of plank on frame models.

[albert]

Very beautiful work.

[GDM67]

Greg, thanks for the tip on fairing.  I am with you here. 

 

Albert,  thanks for the kind words.  I love your Naiad.  The wood tones are beautiful and fit of your timbers is inspiring.

 

Others - thanks for all the likes! 

 

I will post more on Monday.  I am trying to post weekly on Monday.  Having structure like that is a benefit to me.

 

Now for those of you who are contemplating a first scratch build - I strongly encourage it.  There are so many great practicums out there, including this one on Naiad.  The end results are very fulfilling.  If I can do it, then almost anyone with can - trust me here!

 

Best, Gary

[mtaylor]

Gary,

 

Your last paragraph says it all.  To that, I'll:  Just do it.  And if there's something you're not happy with, re-do it.   

[druxey]

Nice progress. I like your 'tiling' strategy with the framing stock. Never considered that.

[GDM67]

Happy Monday!  I am now 130 hours into the Naiad. Not a lot of progress this week due to my building a fort in the backyard for my kids.  But in keeping with my Monday posting, here is the view of the stern transoms and filler pieces.  You will note that I have begun to carefully fair these sections.  At this point, I am just trying to keep things at a pre-finished state, recognizing that the final sand and buffing will come much later in the build.

 

I feel that I have reached a point in the build where I know it will be successful.  I say that cautiously, and what I am trying to say is that I can visualize the rest of the build as it should be.  The stern and bow sections were especially tricky and despite this not being my first scratch project, I was still unsure as to how things should go. 

 

In the final sanding, the foot of the cant frames will flow into the cut down of the beardning line for a scale 2".

 

 

[druxey]

Good stuff! Nice to know the kids aren't being entirely neglected....

[robboxxx]

Great blog

[GDM67]

Good Morning - 165 hours into the build and feeling good!  I have just four cant frames left in the stern (25f, 25a).  At this point, I will have reached what I consider the fifth milestone. With such a long build, I have taken the advice of fellow modeler, Bill Edgin, who suggested that I break the build up into "mental milestones" so as to keep my enthusiasm up.  Here are my mental milestons, which by no accident closely follow the layout of the books, Naiad, Vol 1 and 2 by Ed Tosti:

 

1. Careful studying the practicum, committing to the build, assessing the order of construcution, skills possessed and needed to be acquired - done

2. Erecting the building board, associated jigs and tools - done

3. Laying of the keel, stem, and stern posts - done

4. Bow, to include hawse pieces and forward cant frames - done

5. Stern, to include transoms and aft cant frames

6. Aft square frames (to midship)

7. Forward cant frames (to midship)

8. Stabalization of the frames and fairing the sweep of the hull

9. Thats enough for now...  I expect the above to take me about 4-6 months.

 

And now for the progress report:

 

Here are a couple of shots of some frames.  As you can see, there is a lot of template cutting that goes on with a build like this.  I find this work to be enjoyable.  You need to approach it in a logical fashion, or you will run into trouble quickly.  There are upwards of 15+ pieces of wood in the frames once you start the square frame construction.

 

The rough fairing process begins.  Note that I use blue painters tape on the keel.  I find this helps to mitigate any rounging that may incidentally occur while moving the piece to and from the jig.  Keen eyes will note the accidental undercutting of the filler pieces as they meet the rabet in the stern post.  This will get smoothed out, but could have been perfect if I had been more careful as to where my file was...

 

 

The jig in action.  These are "rework frames".  I find that its just plain easier to remake an entire frame as opposed to trying to salvage sections when there are issues.  I have also promised myself not to continue trying to put a square peg into a round hole. When something doesnt fit, I snap it in half and start over.  Its actually faster that way. As fellow modeler Bill Sproul said to me at our Guild last week, "go slow for maximum speed".

 

Naiad, sitting atop a newly arrived batch of swiss pear, awaiting milling. 

 

Awaiting final fairing.  Good enough for now.  Note how the transom pieces end at the rabbet.

 

I am really happy with the symmetry and fit here. But still need a little fairing on the port side by the foot.  The transom was an enjoyable challenge.

 

I am debating about adding the filler frames that lay just aft of the aft fashion piece.  I am a huge fan of showing work, so may leave these out so you can get a glimpse of the inner structure.  I am still undecided, but will move on for now and revisit this once I begin the final hull fairing and finishing.

 

Thanks for checking in, Gary.

 

[Mike Y]

Looks really great!

Just a little bit of a feedback - don't you think that frames are a little bit too thin, cut very close to the lines?

It leaves a very small margin for fairing, and especially around midship it is easy to get slight mis-alignment on top part of the frame. 

Lots of experienced builders advised to cut a frame with 1mm margin from the lines, which would be needed when fairing.

Also, I was surprised how much material is gone when fairing is finished, and you just sand it or with fine paper to make a smooth surface without scratches. 

 

Just my 2 cents, maybe you already thought it through

Edited May 9, 2016 by Mike Y

[EdT]

Looking great, Gary.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Mike - your comment is a good one!  And yes, the frames are thin - any thinner and I will be running into trouble...  At 1:60 scale, they are much thinner than the traditional 1:48 that many of us are used to seeing. 

 

That being said, the practicum is so well designed and strongly based on templates, drawings and measurements that you really need to fair the frames close to the lines before you install them.  I am starting to do more of that now.  If you dont, you loose the value of the reference points that you pull up from the base drawing as well as the templates.  I have been leaving about a 32nd of an inch for fairing, but find a little more might be of value.  I also left a little more meat at the turn of the bildge. 

 

One thing that I would not do again is make the chocks out of different wood.  As you know, different woods sand differently.  Also,since the chocks have to be angled to account for the beveling of the frames, so as to leave enough frame meat for the joint, there is the chance of fairing the frame into a chock.  This happened to me in two places - both of which were in the early stages when I didnt angle the chock and fully appreciate the subtle importance of this practice.  This is explained in great detail in Ed's book and worth noting for those of you planning to do this build.   

 

So in the end, I am moving slow for maximum speed.  Doing more fine tuning of the frame before installing.  In past builds, you could really just install a frame and leave much of the detail work to the fairing process.  With this build, it is best to spend the time to properly fit and finish each frame as you install them, leaving the fairing process for fine tuning and polishing.

 

Thanks for the dialogue.  G

[allanyed]

Gary,

So far so very good!

 

Did you completely fair the erected frames or is there still some wood to work with when fairing the completed framed hull?

 

Thanks

 

Allan

[Mahuna]

Hi Gary

 

I'm very impressed with your work on the Naiad.  I'm a big fan of Ed's work and, like you, find his books to be excellent guides.  Your Naiad demonstrates their value.

 

I plan to follow the rest of your build.

[GDM67]

Hi All, Thanks for the likes and comments.

 

Allan, I am sure there are many ways to skin this cat.  For me, I think ideally, you should leave a little meat on the bone for final fairing, but again, I think with this kind of build, final fairing is mostly fine tuning and polishing.  This build requires reliance on the templates.  Another important thing to do is secure your build to the build board.  Being off by an 1/8th of an inch can lead to trouble.  I FINALLY secured my ship to the build board last night. About two months later than I should have - this is an important thing to do.  Learn from my mistake...

Here are those many templates that I have been speaking of.  I pasted them to file folder stock and made a special jig to hold them up when positioning frames.

 

I used stainless steel safety wire to stabalize the structure.  I had some from a previous muscle car project. 

 

Since I am planning to cradle the ship, I elected not to put holes in the keel for screws.  I used 1/2 inch pipe clamps with a piece of wood below to pin the ship down.  I will move these as I do along and will add more guide wires as well.  The ship will likely be secured to the build board for the next six to eight months.

 

Note the use of the templates to ensure that I am on the right track with fairing. In this photo, you can see that I need to remove a little more wood from the belt line so the flair of the top timber will match the template.  My skill level has defintley improved as I went along.  In the early stages, I left far too much wood on the frames, which necessitates significant fairing.  Best to get it right at the beginning, rather than going back.

 

Here, you will note that I faired the frames better. All the templates are spot on.  Now all that is needed is fine tuning and polishing. 

 

Now that the ship is secured to the build board, I plan to define the sheer line of the top timbers and will then move on to the aft square frames.  I will mill the wood this weekend.

 

Thanks for following along.  Gary

 

[albert]

Hi Gary, great beautiful work.

[lagrayjr]

Gary, I strongly recommend that you secure the keel to your building board by bolts through the keel as suggested by Ed Tosti. The pipe clamps that you are using will get in your way as you progress building the frames. Eventually they will all have to be removed. In addition the wires you're using to stabilize the frames will be of great help  however, they will get in your way and have to be removed when you start working on the internal structures and gun ports. You will have to stabilize the ship using the heights of breath externally. This requires the keel to be firmly attached to your building board. Ed discusses this in one of his later post but I cannot remember exactly where it's located. I am currently building the Naiaid and am just finishing the lower deck. I hope this suggestion will keep you out of a significant problem later on. Great build and I am enjoying watching it. Laman